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An Infinite Universe ! - Can you accept it ? - Can you understand it ?

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posted on Sep, 11 2016 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: VP740
There's a place for logic and reason, and there's a place for mysticism and riddles.


Maybe. But this isn't one of those places.

I thought we were discussing this for some sort of real answer not some Woo Magical BS.

We already have plenty of those kinds of answers to go around. None of which has done us any good.




posted on Sep, 11 2016 @ 10:07 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

I find it interesting the way people abstract from their lived embodied experiences.

Aren't you curious to know the way the context acts upon and constructs the phenomenology of our moment to moment awareness - indeed - as a function of what enlivens us, an what doesn't enliven us.

Sticking to the mathematical framework is interesting, don't get me wrong, but I'm skeptical that math will have the final say. Ultimately, I think the "quantum void" cannot be grasped. We cannot peak beneath Planks scale.

Our assumptions, therefore, of God verse no God, must ultimately be related to the psychobiodynamism of Self-organization in organisms developing in particular contexts.

This has been my area of study for 4 years now, and its producing an image of a creature that is ineluctably GENERATED by its context it lives, is affected by, and acts within.


As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to the nature and psychodynamism of our phenomenology, cognitive-science/neuroscience/psychodynamics takes the front seat as the more important science to consider before we think about math, physics, and above all, "mysticism".

We are constantly interfacing with an objective world, but the prideful "self-chatter" within consciousness prevents people from ATTUNING to that which they are EXPERENCING.

Dissociation - then. The "nothingness" of the void is a dissociative response that the mind feels enlivened by, and is then unable to disconnect from to return to the world of creation. In fact, the mind may come back and see "meaninglessness" in everything it sees, and in doing that, may have a very nasty egotism emerge within itself.

This ultimately derives from taking far too seriously the nature of the Ego. If the Ego is emphasized at the expense of the feeling-body, dissociation lurks and the cues and primers noted by behavioral economics and experimental psychology will bring the ego on a "ego trip" with no real place to go, because the ego, in its profound delusion, cannot even see whats in front of it - its experiences and growth with Others - beyond its own concerned and self-worried preoccupation with "numbers".

Depression and anxiety underlies this. Choose life! Its better together!
edit on 11-9-2016 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2016 @ 10:18 PM
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If you understand evolution and anything about complex biodynamical systems, this chart sums up HOW WE THINK



Our relations with Others (the enlivenment we receive) binds our thinking and feeling to them as a function of maintaining our biodynamical enlivenment. So why is change so hard? Because it is a thoroughly ecological - thought and feeling are bound to a particular context i.e. certain relevant Others.

For the life of me, the only reason this view isn't more emphasized and understood as the acme of reason is that this society literally operates through dissociation and idealization, i.e. promoting unrealistic - dissociative - ways of being (sitcoms, movies, etc) which really then just creates a feedback. Operating in such an insane environment, it is usually those people outside the system who can see how insane the people operating within it are.



posted on Sep, 11 2016 @ 10:25 PM
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This is also why secret-societies are the apogee of childish pridefulness. People who live with and "operate on one another", particularly within the pride inducing ego-boost of experiencing yourself as a particularly special person because you are in a "secret society" - this is a literal recipe for delusion.

The Buddhists and Jews got it more right. Spend some time alone. And then come together and celebrate life.

But the "greek" number obsessed mind thinks everything is numbers. I don't get it! Thinking this way is interesting, but compared to the situated nature of consciousness that evolved in a context with Others who enlivened and RELAXED it, it is presumptuous and haughty to imagine that your brain-mind doesn't have a built-in bias towards seeking the care of Others - and thus, ala systems theory, using the presence of absence of Care as the referent for all subsequent self-organization.

Every baby knows this. Only trauma, suffering, dissociation, and then, idealization, create the delusion that life can be lived in any other way.

Sometimes I wonder if demons are real things, sort of like viruses as being "natural properties", but properties that arise from how well the conscious mind relates (knows) to how it feels. This may be the hidden meaning of the Cherubim in Hebrew. Consciousness OF constitutes a constraint on the flow of energy through the system, and it is "correlation", i.e. reducing entropy, and so, generating proper representation, that ultimately matters.

In psychodynamic terms, symbolizing (representing i.e. thinking) in a correlated way, would mean discovering what causes you suffering and what causes you happiness. It should not surprise you that ancient Humans did this, and in doing this, were able to live with one another in a tremendously close and telepathic way. This is basically how all evolution in every single organism has occurred.

So what are demons then? Entropy. The "wasted energy" spoiled by the dissociative reactions to what is felt, and the idealized fantasy of what is desired. Demons then are nothing more than a "reflection" of what the Self desires (an "idol"). Its entropy - wastefulness - fundamentally "unreal". Yet it can be generated again and again in Self and Other by provoking and stimulating delusional ways of relating to the World. Ways that aren't properly correlated and coherent for the well being of the Organism.


edit on 11-9-2016 by Astrocyte because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2016 @ 10:25 PM
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originally posted by: donktheclown
a reply to: chr0naut


The decay time for a supermassive black hole of roughly 1 galaxy-mass (10^11 solar masses) due to Hawking radiation is about 10^100 years.


I love all this stuff, thanks. It's like bacteria postulating the reality, with perceived facts, of it's plastic laboratory habitat.
In all reality, we aven't a bloody effin clue.


Well, perhaps just the slightest sliver of wafer thin (almost see-through) clueiness.



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 12:05 AM
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Maybe I got lost in one of those hypothetical parallel univrses - But it seems to me that i started this post this way:

"An Infinite Universe ! - Can you accept it ? - Can you understand it ?"


Understood this is a difficult issue to many - maybe to all - But it would have little relationship to personal experience
and related issues.

Etiher the universe, and by extension existence itself, is infinite or it is limited.

If it is limited I want you to tell me what are the limits


Define your case and make your claims - Because if you can not show me and the rest of the 'peanut gallery'
what the limits of the universe are - then the audience will assume infinity is the default.

You see there is no inbetween, no rhetoric, no math that can change this either/or situation.

Are we inside of a limited paradigm - Or is the vastness of what we observe unlimited.

And just remember this:


"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve."
-Max Planck


"Once you can accept the universe as being something expanding into an infinite nothing which is something, wearing stripes with plaid is easy."
- Albert Einstein





As you can see, most people, even intelligent ones, do not want to accept this - they scream for a god to bow down to
- to make them humble - to suffer limitations which the universe is not imposing upon them.





“We are the cosmos made conscious and life is the means by which the universe understands itself.”
― Brian Cox








edit on 12-9-2016 by AlienView because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: AlienView




An Infinite Universe ! - Can you accept it ?

Yes. In fact I have a hunch that infinities play a role in our universe (although that can't really be proven 100%). We see numbers at play in our universe, infinities arise from the same logic models which produce numbers. Imaginary numbers were once considered aberrations along with infinities, then they (imaginary numbers) were found necessary to deal with, in handling cubic equations.

Even after gaining acceptance by the mathematical community, they were thought to have no place in the physical world; then electrical engineers realized they needed them to deal with real world phenomenon.

Infinities were also viewed as nonsense before Cantor's investigation of set theory (the foundation of modern Mathematics). While infinities haven't yet received much acceptance beyond the mathematical community, it seems naive to me to presume the univers is free of them.



Can you understand it ?


Only to a limited extent. I accept that infinitely more possibilities exist for the univers than I could hope to comprehend.



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

They've done me plenty of good!



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 01:55 PM
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a reply to: AlienView


Define your case and make your claims - Because if you can not show me and the rest of the 'peanut gallery' what the limits of the universe are - then the audience will assume infinity is the default.


Someone please do, as I and others in the p nut gallery would love to hear the answer to a question that cannot possibly be answered.

We of the p nut gallery know better than to ask such a ridiculous question and honestly expect an answer; but then again, we are kinda stoopit.. If anyone in the PNG is indeed intelligent, my apologies.



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 02:20 PM
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the present observable universe is up to a 14 Billion Light-Year 'sphere' as seen from Earth...

an entity observing the universe, from planet ZORK in the Galaxy some 14 Billion Light-Years distant from our location.... would likewise 'see' to the 'edge' of the Cosmos---- another 14 billion-light-year 'Sphere' radiating from their observation planet...


Now.... If we could access a billion years of universe expansion... would We find that the observable universe is then a 15 Billion Light-Year 'Sphere'...
that sequence tells us that there is a Limit of observation using mundane-practical light measuring technologies which will only improve in step with 'time'

right now our AGE is 14 Billion Years....
perhaps the Quantum Worlds' Entanglement will allow us to 'see' through the eyes of a far off Lens some billions of light years distant in real time
edit on th30147370808612212016 by St Udio because: typo spell



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 02:46 PM
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Maybe earth is just like Who-ville





posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: AlienView

Tell us Human - What does it mean to stare at a sky without limits ? Tell us where you want to go next.....



Dear god anywhere but earth please.



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 09:58 PM
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So billion of years after - the same quesioning spirit that underlies all that exists

asks again, and again, and again


You see Human all that exists is a questioning intelligence
- nothing exists unless its very existence can question itself
- and this includes you Human.

Man
- Infinity
- limits


Are you ready for a paradigm of existence that has no limits


We and you Human have made many mistakes - have gone in many wrong directions
Intelligence by its very nature is fallible, will make errors
- the price we pay for a living universe.

But the unlimited nature of existence must be revealed


We are willing to accept the problems of a living universe
- Are you


If so Human all we ask of you is........








Still need to cling to your religiosity
OK Human try it this way:






Think the universe is too big
- Afraid you will never get to see it all

We have technologies that you are yet to imagine - equations that will allow you access to the gates of the future
But you must continue to.....





Also Sprach Zarathustra:





- AlienView [aka UniversalAlien]
[Channeling the continuum of Ascended Masters]









“We are the cosmos made conscious and life is the means by which the universe understands itself.”
― Brian Cox







"ScienceFictionalism - the way of the Future"
universalspacealienpeoplesassociation.blogspot.com...
edit on 12-9-2016 by AlienView because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 10:24 PM
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originally posted by: Astrocyte
Sticking to the mathematical framework is interesting, don't get me wrong, but I'm skeptical that math will have the final say. Ultimately, I think the "quantum void" cannot be grasped. We cannot peak beneath Planks scale.

Our assumptions, therefore, of God verse no God, must ultimately be related to the psychobiodynamism of Self-organization in organisms developing in particular contexts.


I think I see the problem right here. Which is that you seem to want to bring in such concepts as God. While I have no problem with that or talking philosophy or theology, my point was just that I didn't think this topic was asking about those things.

I thought it was of a scientific and/or practical or logical question being asked and not one of metaphysics or myth. I'm not against those things, I just didn't realize that is what was being asked.



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 10:28 PM
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originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: mOjOm

They've done me plenty of good!


What good have they done??

You don't even know if any of them are correct nor is there any way to test them even if they were. I suppose you can say they've done good because they've given people something to believe was true, even if it isn't. But that's about it and I'm not sure if I'd say that is a good thing anyway.



posted on Sep, 12 2016 @ 10:45 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

You respond this way to a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche? How peculiar...

I guess you can stay away from Hofstadter as well.

I don't necessarily agree with every conclusion these people were alluding to with their metaphors, but the journeys they guided me on were worthwhile for me.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 04:07 AM
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originally posted by: VP740
a reply to: LucianusXVII




So at the end of your theorized finite Universe is what, a wall, a giant hollow shell? 

Whatever it "is" I have a question, what's on the other side? 


What's at the end of the world? Well, where is the end of the world? The North Pole? If you go far enough you'll start heading to the other side of where you started.

According to General Relativity the same thing can happen in 3d. Does that make sense?


I didn't ask about the world, my question was about the Universe, big difference.

And my point was simply that a finite Universe is literally impossible for the reasons I previously stated. Thinking that the Universe is finite is so flawed that I can't believe anyone takes it seriously as a theory.

It's obvious that their is an infinite amount of space in every direction with nothing big enough to contain it and make it finite. But if it was there would just be a bigger Universe or multiple Universes and we would need to rename it Multiverse.

But it would still be infinite, the ultimate all encompassing thing we now call Universe can't possibly have an end.



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 05:33 AM
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Infinate ...
"limitless or endless in space, extent, or size; impossible to measure or calculate"

Dante 1265 /1321 ...
" ... beyond the range of mortal mind,
No tongue or thought has ever reached the end ..."

It is a misconception that the Universe is expanding into space
Space is a neccessary product of the Universe itself
... a component of the Universe

The Universe and all it contains is indeed beyond mortal measure as such it is infinate
Yet I believe it does have an edge or boundry
That is expanding into surrounding unknown substance
Substance that is devoid of pattern or Intelligence
A form of chaos which is yet to be worked upon by the actions of the Universe

Ours is but one of countless Universes that by it's actions creates pathways (space)
Like the Milky Way is destined to converge with Andromeda
So too our Universe is destined to link up with others




edit on 13-9-2016 by artistpoet because: typo

edit on 13-9-2016 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 06:42 AM
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a reply to: AlienView





Ready to tell us the limit ? - How far does existence really extend ? Which existence ? Which universe ?


A infinite space has always existed and always will.

A infinite space is the state of absolute. Infinite space must take up all Space there is. There can not exist anything else byond it, or that is larger.

What exits within this infnite and absolute Space. Can not be infinite. Not even all matter that exists within Our 13.799 billion year old observable universe.

Reason:

What ever exists inside the absolute infinite Space, Is not like the void of infininte Space. It has its own finite property, and they are not absolute. They are finite.

The void of absolut infinite Space also have specific propertis. And they are all absolute.

A absolute infinite void of Space:

- Abolute constant.
- Abaolute constant motion = absolute No motion at all.
- Absolute constant time line.
- Take up absolute all Space there is.
- A absolute empty void of Space.
- It is a absolute neutral void of Space.

This would imply that a God must exist. Do you know why?





edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2016 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: LucianusXVII

You seem to have missed this part:



According to General Relativity the same thing can happen in 3d. Does that make sense?


I was only describing the world as an analogy.



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