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Why do covert racists ignore the facts? when does it stop?

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posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme




I agree somewhat with the rest of your post, but this seems a bit over the top.

42 police officers were killed in 2015. Over 1,000 civilians were killed by the police.


I didn't say they were justified with that thinking, that is just how they are trained. Everyone is out to kill them at any moments notice.

Hence I said training and education are big factors with the issue.
edit on 46731America/ChicagoThu, 14 Jul 2016 09:46:14 -0500000000p3142 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:48 AM
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originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: theySeeme




I agree somewhat with the rest of your post, but this seems a bit over the top.

42 police officers were killed in 2015. Over 1,000 civilians were killed by the police.


I didn't say they were justified with that thinking, that is just how they are trained. Everyone is out to kill them at any moments notice.

Hence I said training and education are big factors with the issue.


42 cop deaths last year is hardly "everyone is out to kill them at any moments notiice". That seems like the same extremist view that gets people killed in the first place.

Out of the millions of police interactions each year, 42 were killed last year - again, compared to how many civilians?

By the way, 71% of all police killings so far in 2016 were done by white males, according to the FBI.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

I just thought of something. You said to go to the BLM website and show you where they call for violence.. Well using that logic. If I go to the Whitehouse website, are the officials on there going to say "Welcome to Whitehouse-gov, where we are committed to waging illegal war, laws that are against the constitution, and using our agencies to spy on Americans" ?

Well our government does do these things, but they do not state that "officially" on their website. According to any gov website, our country is being ran completely fair and by the law right? I suck at analogies but I think you understand what I am saying.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

I just thought of something. You said to go to the BLM website and show you where they call for violence.. Well using that logic. If I go to the Whitehouse website, are the officials on there going to say "Welcome to Whitehouse-gov, where we are committed to waging illegal war, laws that are against the constitution, and using our agencies to spy on Americans" ?

Well our government does do these things, but they do not state that "officially" on their website. According to any gov website, our country is being ran completely fair and by the law right? I suck at analogies but I think you understand what I am saying.


I thought you were leaving. You took all this time to think, and still returned with an incoherent reply, I really don't get it. It's not about the website, obviously you stated that BLM calls for violence, which several people in this forum have proved is wrong. You stated that BLM killed a police horse, you were also corrected there and admitted to being wrong. You stated that BLM advocates violence, and BLM has many officials in it's ranks, yet you can't show one single source that shows any of the many people who work within BLM advocating for violence.

Using the logic you tried to use, if a Trump supporter advocates violence, then that means Trump advocates violence.

It would really help if you didn't pretend to be an idiot.

You said


originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

I just thought of something. You said to go to the BLM website and show you where they call for violence.


Can you show me where I said go to the BLM website and show me where they call for violence? I never said no such thing. I'll wait, but I'm more certain you won't return because you keep embarrassing yourself.
edit on 14-7-2016 by theySeeme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:54 AM
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"Attourney General Loretta Lynch admits we don't keep statitics - after the head of FBI, the same guy who checked Clinton, admitted so. Here is the video"

I've just sat through both of these people obfuscating and deflecting in order to not tell the truth to congress. Why should I believe they are telling the truth in this instance ?



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:55 AM
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originally posted by: JustXeno
"Attourney General Loretta Lynch admits we don't keep statitics - after the head of FBI, the same guy who checked Clinton, admitted so. Here is the video"

I've just sat through both of these people obfuscating and deflecting in order to not tell the truth to congress. Why should I believe they are telling the truth in this instance ?



Oh boy. Was only a matter of time. Can you cite or show any source or any proof, any reference at all that national statistics are kept on police killings? Can you tell us the name of the agency that keeps track of such? I'll wait.
edit on 14-7-2016 by theySeeme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme




That seems like the same extremist view that gets people killed in the first place.


re read my post above where I didn’t say that mentality was justified.

However that is also part of the reason why the bigger issue is not just simply racism , but rather training ,education, and policy reform and controlling the constant fear for their live.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

that's my point their tracking deaths. and the post states this as a matter of fact. a year after your article.
two page for you

2015 deaths from the post.

above from here.
990 people shot dead by police in 2015

and again their 2016 page,

Fatal Force 518 people have been shot and killed by police in 2016. This database is based on news reports, public records, social media and other sources. Read about our methodology.
see the filter underneath, click race, again in 2016 reports that they can find show more whites than blacks.
White 239, Black 127
and one more from the post,

Fatal Force More than 250 people have been fatally shot by police officers in the first three months of 2016 In 2015, The Washington Post found more than two times the previously reported number of fatal shootings Final tally: Police shot and killed 984 people in 2015See the 2015 database
More than 250 people have been fatally shot by police officers in the first three months of 2016


and their methodology page and notice the red text here




The Washington Post is compiling a database of every fatal shooting in the United States by a police officer in the line of duty since Jan. 1, 2015.

The Washington Post is examining police shootings in the United States By Julie Tate, Jennifer Jenkins, Steven Rich, John Muyskens, Kennedy Elliott, Ted Mellnik and Aaron Williams July 7 The Washington Post is compiling a database of every fatal shooting in the United States by a police officer in the line of duty since Jan. 1, 2015. In 2015, The Post began tracking more than a dozen details about each killing — including the race of the deceased, the circumstances of the shooting, whether the person was armed and whether the person was experiencing a mental-health crisis — by culling local news reports, law enforcement websites and social media, and by monitoring independent databases such as Killed by Police and Fatal Encounters. The Post conducted additional reporting in many cases.

In 2016, The Post is gathering additional information about each fatal shooting by police that occurs this year and is filing open-records requests with departments. More than a dozen additional details are being collected about officers in each shooting. Officers’ names are being included in the database after The Post contacts the departments to request comment.

The Post is documenting only those shootings in which a police officer, in the line of duty, shoots and kills a civilian — the circumstances that most closely parallel the 2014 killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., which began the protest movement culminating in Black Lives Matter and an increased focus on police accountability nationwide. The Post is not tracking deaths of people in police custody, fatal shootings by off-duty officers or non-shooting deaths.

The FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention log fatal shootings by police, but officials acknowledge that their data is incomplete. In 2015, The Post documented more than twice as many fatal shootings by police as had been recorded by the FBI. Last year, the FBI announced plans to overhaul how it tracks fatal police encounters. The Post’s database is updated regularly as fatal shootings are reported and as facts emerge about individual cases.

The Post is seeking assistance in making the database as comprehensive as possible. To provide information about fatal police shootings since Jan. 1, 2015, send us an email at policeshootingsfeedback@washpost.com. The Post is also interested in obtaining photos of the deceased and original videos of fatal encounters with police.
How The Washington Post is examining police shootings in the United States


so here just as i did the post looked at calls where a shooting took place. so again compare just calls/ shooting and the white vs black number is blown out of the water.





edit on 14-7-2016 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:58 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

Comparing the actions of Trump supporters compared to Blm supporters is no comparison in the bigger picture. You yourself posted the website and told me to show where they advocate violence. Of course they are not going to "officially".



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 09:59 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: theySeeme

that's my point their tracking deaths. and the post states this as a matter of fact. a yeat after your article.
two page for you

2015 deaths from the post.

above from here.
990 people shot dead by police in 2015

and again their 2016 page,

Fatal Force 518 people have been shot and killed by police in 2016. This database is based on news reports, public records, social media and other sources. Read about our methodology.
see the filter underneath, click race, again in 2016 reports that they can find show more whites than blacks.
White 239, Black 127
and one more from the post,

Fatal Force More than 250 people have been fatally shot by police officers in the first three months of 2016 In 2015, The Washington Post found more than two times the previously reported number of fatal shootings Final tally: Police shot and killed 984 people in 2015See the 2015 database
More than 250 people have been fatally shot by police officers in the first three months of 2016


and their methodology page and notice the red text here




The Washington Post is compiling a database of every fatal shooting in the United States by a police officer in the line of duty since Jan. 1, 2015.

The Washington Post is examining police shootings in the United States By Julie Tate, Jennifer Jenkins, Steven Rich, John Muyskens, Kennedy Elliott, Ted Mellnik and Aaron Williams July 7 The Washington Post is compiling a database of every fatal shooting in the United States by a police officer in the line of duty since Jan. 1, 2015. In 2015, The Post began tracking more than a dozen details about each killing — including the race of the deceased, the circumstances of the shooting, whether the person was armed and whether the person was experiencing a mental-health crisis — by culling local news reports, law enforcement websites and social media, and by monitoring independent databases such as Killed by Police and Fatal Encounters. The Post conducted additional reporting in many cases.

In 2016, The Post is gathering additional information about each fatal shooting by police that occurs this year and is filing open-records requests with departments. More than a dozen additional details are being collected about officers in each shooting. Officers’ names are being included in the database after The Post contacts the departments to request comment.

The Post is documenting only those shootings in which a police officer, in the line of duty, shoots and kills a civilian — the circumstances that most closely parallel the 2014 killing of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., which began the protest movement culminating in Black Lives Matter and an increased focus on police accountability nationwide. The Post is not tracking deaths of people in police custody, fatal shootings by off-duty officers or non-shooting deaths.

The FBI and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention log fatal shootings by police, but officials acknowledge that their data is incomplete. In 2015, The Post documented more than twice as many fatal shootings by police as had been recorded by the FBI. Last year, the FBI announced plans to overhaul how it tracks fatal police encounters. The Post’s database is updated regularly as fatal shootings are reported and as facts emerge about individual cases.

The Post is seeking assistance in making the database as comprehensive as possible. To provide information about fatal police shootings since Jan. 1, 2015, send us an email at policeshootingsfeedback@washpost.com. The Post is also interested in obtaining photos of the deceased and original videos of fatal encounters with police.
How The Washington Post is examining police shootings in the United States


so here just as i did the post looked at calls where a shooting took place. so again compare just calls/ shooting and the white vs black number is blown out of the water.






Not sure if you are playing dumb, if you are really clueless. These reported deaths are only ones reported by police to media and public record. It is incomplete data, the head of the FBI and the attorney state general have admitted no such records are kept. Bill Clinton admitted the same in his term, george bush in his, and the Obama administration has also admitted it. What is there not to get? You are reading INCOMPLETE DATA, the data is not COMPLETE, it is only a slice of the pie .


(post by matafuchs removed for a manners violation)

posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:00 AM
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originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

Comparing the actions of Trump supporters compared to Blm supporters is no comparison in the bigger picture. You yourself posted the website and told me to show where they advocate violence. Of course they are not going to "officially".


Quote me. Show me where I said that.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:01 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: theySeeme

The FBI you idiot. Here is one about 2014. Since you are Captain Research you can google the rest...

www.fbi.gov...

So, the same person who said they do not keep them does not know what is going on in his own department as well as the AG?





Wow, you are the second person who fails to read the topic, and even worse, fails to read what he's quoting! How can you quote this link, when on the very link you just posted, it says

FBI Releases 2014 Statistics on Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted

This is for OFFICERS KILLED, not CIVILIANS KILLED! What is wrong with people? Is the truth hurting that bad that disillusion are kicking in this bad? or is it - like I said; covert racism.


How can you call me an idiot when you are wasting time on ATS when you should be brushing up on your failed education? Do you always blab your mouth without knowing any facts? Do you always cite sources without reading anything? reading is fundamental, "idiot" (as you called me). You should be ashamed of yourself, you are EXACTLY a part of the problem.
edit on 14-7-2016 by theySeeme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:06 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

You said no one keeps statistics. You are given it and still cry 'covert racism'. You did not answer my post where I addressed the OP.

I think the term you want for yourself and the BLM is 'overt racism'.

Based on that OP also it would seem, and I will go on a limb here, you are a convert right? To Islam. NBPP literature in your house now?



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: Nexttimemaybe

originally posted by: crazyewok
Everyone is a raceist in some way. I am so are you.

Its human nature.


That is a lie.

One usually spouted by racists.

I had never considered you to be like that, hope I am wrong and you were being sarcastic.




Racism doesn't mean one is a signed up member of the KKK.

EVERYONE harbors some prejudice or has some stereotype in mind or has laughed or shared at a racial joke of some sort.

That apply to every race.


Doesn't mean there is hate involved or one things they are superior.
And the thing is not to let it get to that point.


Its just human nature.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:07 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: theySeeme

You said no one keeps statistics. You are given it and still cry 'covert racism'. You did not answer my post where I addressed the OP.

I think the term you want for yourself and the BLM is 'overt racism'.

Based on that OP also it would seem, and I will go on a limb here, you are a convert right? To Islam. NBPP literature in your house now?



Very interesting behavior here. If you bothered to read any of the topic, even just one page, most of the discussion, starting from page 1 revolves around the fact that no one keeps statistics on the number of people killed by the police, so we have no idea how many people are killed by police.

What I do know is, using the data you did link (which is irrelevant here, as it talks about officers killed, not civilians) is 71% of police officers are killed by whites this year alone. Secondly, it's clear you are one of the people my thread title refers to, since you came in here all charged up, without realizing that in my OP and several posts thereafter I also speak against racism that is directed towards white people. It's a two way street, I'm not on either side.

Why is this riling you up so much? Is the truth starting to upset you? Even more amusing is the fact that you cannot admit you are wrong.
edit on 14-7-2016 by theySeeme because: (no reason given)


You are some piece of work.
edit on 14-7-2016 by theySeeme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:09 AM
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originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

Comparing the actions of Trump supporters compared to Blm supporters is no comparison in the bigger picture. You yourself posted the website and told me to show where they advocate violence. Of course they are not going to "officially".


Quote me. Show me where I said that.





The man you show in the video is not an official of the BLM movement. You can view a list of BLM officials on blacklivesmatter.com...






I guess, you still haven't provided any proof or source that the BLM Organization (an officially established organization with representatives and officials) advocates violence.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:10 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: theySeeme

You said no one keeps statistics. You are given it and still cry 'covert racism'. You did not answer my post where I addressed the OP.

I think the term you want for yourself and the BLM is 'overt racism'.

Based on that OP also it would seem, and I will go on a limb here, you are a convert right? To Islam. NBPP literature in your house now?



And before you pretend to be mentally challenged, again, you stated, and I quote


So, the same person who said they do not keep them does not know what is going on in his own department as well as the AG?


The AG and the head of the FBI never said that there are no statistics kept on police officers killed, what they were saying is there is no record of civilians killed by police - so why would you say that? Challenged.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: theySeeme

i posted this in another thread,

do you realize how many people are arrested a year in the U.S..

if you look at by population, yes the numbers do seem high for blacks, but if you go by arrests, or by deaths by cop the numbers are way different. see that's what they do they use population to make it seem disproportionate, you got to remember there are way more white people than black people or other races, so if you use population you get a higher number of deaths for the lower number of population. but if you use Arrests, or just deaths by cops the numbers change.
plus if you look at the number of arrests the numbers


below i'm going to count the White and Black deaths seeing how so many think it is some outrageous disproportion.
this is from the FBI arrests

Police made an estimated 11,205,833 arrests during 2014—498,666 for violent crimes, and 1,553,980 for property crimes. More than 73 percent of those arrested during 2014 were male. Crime in the Uniterd States 2014


now this from the Guardian's The Counted. look at many white faces you see compared to the others. you will also see that if you click the filters they include accidental deaths by cops. which wouldn't be crime related except where the officer was at fault. like in car accidents.

The Counted

from the wiki, but if you use the data from the guardian




These lists are incomplete. Although Congress instructed the Attorney General in 1994 to compile and publish annual statistics on police use of excessive force, this was never carried out, and the FBI does not collect these data either.[1] The annual average number of justifiable homicides alone was previously estimated to be near 400.[2] Updated estimates from the Bureau of Justice Statistics released in 2015 estimate the number to be around 930 per year, or 1240 if assuming that nonreporting local agencies kill people at the same rate as reporting agencies.[3] The Washington Post has tracked shootings (only) since 2015, reporting 990 shootings in that year,[4] and more than 250 by the end of March 2016.

[5] Deaths by age group in 2015, according to The Counted The Guardian newspaper runs its own database,The Counted, which tracked US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender (1086 male, 53 female, 1 nonconforming) , race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed (853 armed, 224 unarmed).[6] The database has continued to add new cases into 2016.
List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States


just for comparisons sake, if we take the total number of arrests in 2014 ( the most complete year the FBI has released) and look at the total number of deaths from the guardian,

Total arrests 11,205,833
Total Deaths by Police 1146
Percent of Deaths 0.010226816694484024

now lets do this
Total Deaths by Police 1146
Total White Deaths by Police 581
Percent White Deaths by Police 50.698080279232116

Total Deaths by Police 1146
Total Black Deaths by Police 306
Percent Black Deaths by Police 26.701570680628272

see the difference, when you look at the numbers of Arrests / number of Deaths, which is the true count, because when you count it by population or any thing else your not looking at the true numbers.

or we could do it this way, again i'm going to have to use 2015 Graudian chart, 2015 Population by race( est as of July 1 2015 ) from U.S. Census Bureau
QuickFacts UNITED STATES
Total White Population 247 813 910 which if my math is correct is 77.1% according Census Bureau ( est as of July 1 2015 )
Total White Deaths 581
Percent Of White Deaths 0.00018076103944380108

Total Black Population 42,748,703 which if my math is correct is 13.3% according Census Bureau ( est as of July 1 2015 )
Total Black Deaths 306
Percent of Black Deaths 0.000715811191%

but if we use the same number for population for white deaths as the black population.
White Population 42,748,703
Deaths by Police 581
Percent Deaths by Police 0.00135910556%

so it seems to me a much clearer picture Deaths Per Arrests than any other way.

what is really needed is a way to track total number of deaths to calls that would really shed a better light.

but if we use just arrests it is plain to see that cops don't kill nearly as many people as is made out to be. it's just how you word the way it is said.








The problem with this type of statistic is that most people killed by the police are not classified as arrested, they are classified as killed in pursuit, so it's still invalid to go by. Secondly, as admitted by the director of the FBI and the attorney general of the U.S, and as I've posted over 5 times now, there is no record of how many civilians are shot by police, absolutely none.



Do you know that everytime a cop or leo fires their weapon, there are papers to fill out?

Imagine the paperwork if they kill someone.

Which leads me to believe something is lost in your translation that no one keeps track of how many people cops shoot and kill.

Surprising New Evidence Shows Bias in Police Use of Force but Not in Shootings




A new study confirms that black men and women are treated differently in the hands of law enforcement. They are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.

But when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias. “It is the most surprising result of my career,” said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study and a professor of economics at Harvard. The study examined more than 1,000 shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California.


www.nytimes.com...

This guy got stats from somewhere, right?




posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 10:11 AM
link   

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

Comparing the actions of Trump supporters compared to Blm supporters is no comparison in the bigger picture. You yourself posted the website and told me to show where they advocate violence. Of course they are not going to "officially".


Quote me. Show me where I said that.





The man you show in the video is not an official of the BLM movement. You can view a list of BLM officials on blacklivesmatter.com...






I guess, you still haven't provided any proof or source that the BLM Organization (an officially established organization with representatives and officials) advocates violence.


Gee, you sure are some piece of work. So as you can see in the part that you quoted of me, I told you to check the website for a list of officially named BLM representatives, and tell me one name that advocates violence. There is none, therefor we can conclude BLM does NOT advocate violence!



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