Why do covert racists ignore the facts? when does it stop?

a reply to: theySeeme

So since you basically called me a racist. Let me further explain why I respond to many posts regarding BLM or race..

As I said in one post, it is the most in your face topic right now. I like forums such as science, etc etc and I post in many forums off all different topics. But in case you haven't noticed, there is a group calling for MY death for no reason whatsoever, one person of which already made good on that threat in Dallas and a few other cities.

This organization is a threat to my safety and therefore I will watch it closely and respond whenever I see coddling or lying going on, or those protecting the very people who want me dead. So call me racist all you want. I know I am not and that is all that matters.


iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: theySeeme

I will ask you this:

Do you think that if the black community was, generally speaking, not in such a great state of decay with so many committing so much of the crime, that this trouble with the police would continue to the extent it does now?

Absolutely not. If the black community improved, community and police relations will as well. The thing is there are too many outside influences affecting the black community - influences that don't affect many other groups. I'm not saying that there arent serious issues in the black community, of course there are, but there are even scarier and bigger issues within our society, within our government.

How can the black community improve when others assume that black people aren't marching against black on black violence? How can they improve when people deny the fact that there are literally thousands of organizations dedicated to ending gang violence, black on black violence, black on anything violence, ect? The general idea is that blacks are doing absolutely nothing, and this couldn't be farther from the truth.

The same way we have cover racists here on ATS who work very hard to push their agenda, we have them in the police, in the media, in music, in everything. And I'm not one sided, for example there was a story of a white man who was beat by a black corrections officer in jail in "retaliation for Eric Garner". This is a prime example of the filth I am talking about.

a reply to: Nikola014

You said there's an agenda to represent Muslims as a evil group and you called it racism. And I tell you, you're very wrong, considering how many Islamic terrorist groups there are in the world.

So do the Russian terrorists who disrupted the European cup mean that all Russians are terrorists? Calling Russia a terrorist nation is therefore not "Russophobia?"

Yeah, BLM annoy people, and hold ambulances from coming trough, because they've got some more important things to do.

Were you there? Do you know how events are unfolding in this country? Yes, I find it annoying when BLM disrupts my commute, but their cause is more important, not only to them, but to American values, than my eating dinner on time.

What a peaceful group. Instead of doing something productive with their time, they go out and parade.

They go out and protest. What would you consider to be more productive? Genocide?

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

So since you basically called me a racist. Let me further explain why I respond to many posts regarding BLM or race..

As I said in one post, it is the most in your face topic right now. I like forums such as science, etc etc and I post in many forums off all different topics. But in case you haven't noticed, there is a group calling for MY death for no reason whatsoever, one person of which already made good on that threat in Dallas and a few other cities.

This organization is a threat to my safety and therefore I will watch it closely and respond whenever I see coddling or lying going on, or those protecting the very people who want me dead. So call me racist all you want. I know I am not and that is all that matters.


iTruthSeeker

I was expecting you to tell me what bit of information you do not agree with that you'd like me to provide proof or information on. I guess you aren't interested in that kind of debate though.

I didn't call you racist. You are doing that all on your own.

As for you thinking BLM is a threat to your safety, can you tell me why you feel threatened by them? And can you tell us if you feeling threatened by peaceful organizations is affecting your perception of black people? Be honest.

a reply to: theySeeme

So you are saying that the black fireman and his family who live across the street from me shouldn't be where they are because The Man kept them down?

Somehow, they have a normal, stable life with a normal, stable family. Kids are all going to school. Dad is in the house raising his kids. Oldest is in college now. Change their skin color and no one would know the difference. They are pretty much thoroughly middle class. Dad is even a gear head who has a race car.

So somehow, blacks manage to improve their lives all the time as there are other examples. I'm guessing all of us know them. So many of us are basing our assumptions of what blacks could and should be based of those we know who did well.

If anything I feel bad for the great ones I know how do everything right. They have to fight against the negative perceptions created by the larger part of the community who feel they can't do anything because they're too busy blaming everyone else for their crappy lives. It's like being the owner who has a wonderful pit bull because you've taken the time and effort to raise and train it properly having to fight against the societal negative perceptions created by all those who have vicious ones and blame the breed rather than their own poor handling of them.

a reply to: theySeeme

It could also equally be argued that these statistics you are using rely on CONVICTIONS only and not CHARGES. Statistics show that white people are more likely to get a plea-deal consisting of probation or a program before jail time, with a cop out to a lesser charge (or a complete dismissal) than blacks or latinos. So their crimes are LESS likely to appear in the statistic pool you gather your data from when compared to blacks.

Statistics show there are more white women in battered women shelters than there are black, yet there are more black men in jail for domestic violence. See what I mean?

Thank you for this! I'm continuing to follow this rabbit hole, and this will help. A lot! The truth is hidden from us in so many ways -- including statistics. But I need to understand better the many many ways this is accomplished.

a reply to: DJW001

So do the Russian terrorists who disrupted the European cup mean that all Russians are terrorists? Calling Russia a terrorist nation is therefore not "Russophobia?"

What the heck is wrong with you?

Why are you bringing Russia into everything? Do you honestly think you're going to provoke me, by bringing Russia into whatever discussion we have? It's pathetic.

"Russian terrorists" who disrupted the EURO? What? Do you even know what a terrorist is?

Why are you comparing bunch of hooligans with Islamic terrorists? Do you think we should laugh at Islamic terrorists? Do you think they are some kind of a joke?

Were you there? Do you know how events are unfolding in this country? Yes, I find it annoying when BLM disrupts my commute, but their cause is more important, not only to them, but to American values, than my eating dinner on time.

How come more people don't support this group, then? I'm betting if this group hard a larger support, you guys would be able to make any change you wish. And you wouldn't rely on your president to bring up this topic in every single occasion he has.

American values...at this point, you're making me laugh

a reply to: ketsuko

Study after study, from different sources, some that have clearly expected to uncover what you would think (far more black men killed by cops than white), all show the same thing -> blacks do not get killed out of all proportion to expectation statistically by law enforcement.

Can you link to one? Here's one that shows otherwise:

A geographically-resolved, multi-level Bayesian model is used to analyze the data presented in the U.S. Police-Shooting Database (USPSD) in order to investigate the extent of racial bias in the shooting of American civilians by police officers in recent years. In contrast to previous work that relied on the FBI’s Supplemental Homicide Reports that were constructed from self-reported cases of police-involved homicide, this data set is less likely to be biased by police reporting practices. County-specific relative risk outcomes of being shot by police are estimated as a function of the interaction of: 1) whether suspects/civilians were armed or unarmed, and 2) the race/ethnicity of the suspects/civilians. The results provide evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans, in that the probability of being [black, unarmed, and shot by police] is about 3.49 times the probability of being [white, unarmed, and shot by police] on average. Furthermore, the results of multi-level modeling show that there exists significant heterogeneity across counties in the extent of racial bias in police shootings, with some counties showing relative risk ratios of 20 to 1 or more. Finally, analysis of police shooting data as a function of county-level predictors suggests that racial bias in police shootings is most likely to emerge in police departments in larger metropolitan counties with low median incomes and a sizable portion of black residents, especially when there is high financial inequality in that county. There is no relationship between county-level racial bias in police shootings and crime rates (even race-specific crime rates), meaning that the racial bias observed in police shootings in this data set is not explainable as a response to local-level crime rates.

journals.plos.org.../journal.pone.0141854[Emphasis mine. --DJW001]

originally posted by: interupt42
a reply to: theySeeme

Nobody is justifying all cop on black killings. What people are saying is don't be a dumb @ss when a cop has a gun pointed at you if you don't want to get killed. That goes for BOTH white and BLACK people.

I agree, don't be a dumbass, but there is a difference between someone being a dumbass and a cop being justified to dish out the death penalty. That's all. My uncle is a dumbass, but I would not say a cop would be justified in killing him unarmed if he is not violent but simply being a dumbass.

Again that is BS and likely only a small ignorant part of the population thinks that. The majority of Republicans hate him because: wait for it ,wait for it he is a democrat.

Other as myself that believe both party are corrupted as proven by an independent princeton study , hate Obama because he was full of BS even days within his inauguration. The man is a liar not because he is Black because he is a politician. He is a corporate night walker and his Obamacare was designed to make the top three Health insurance companies record profits.

Look at the almost 45 degree jump for record earnings that occurred once Obamacare took effect for the 3 largest healthcare insurance companies.

I agree that Obama is a liar, all politicians in government are, literally. What I was getting at is that many people orginally hated him for his race, and that carried over. Many people don't hate the man for the right reasons, and that's probably why he hasn't been impeached yet.

I thought you said there was no method to track this or you just stereotyping? Sounds like you might be racist if you think one life is more important than another based on color.

Seems you failed to see the point. How am I being racist when I am actually speaking up for the poor white kid who lost his life in the film released today? My point is that his death will go unnoticed pretty much because of all the other ones, which is #ed up and needs to change. Perhaps if you didn't come into my topic pre-disposed with covert racism, you would of responded differently. Always assuming something is an attack, why?

Guess who is leading the race vs race war that they planned?

Duh, which I mentioned in the line directly below that in my post? Please read my post entirely instead of reading only bits and pieces. It helps us all have an intelligent and meaningful discussion. Seriously.

Nobody is saying their isn't a problem with law enforcement.

Really? Look around, many are saying everything is fine and dandy. In fact, a few lines up in your post, you said, and I quote

Nobody is justifying all cop on black killings. What people are saying is don't be a dumb @ss when a cop has a gun pointed at you if you don't want to get killed. That goes for BOTH white and BLACK people.

Don't contradict yourself, especially in a single post.

[Quote]
There is a problem that effects everyone, the problem is that BLM is not helping to solve that problem instead they are making a bigger worse problem (race war) and focusing on the wrong issue of racism.


How is BLM not helping to solve the problem? can you tell me how it's making it worse? Can you tell me how it's making a race war, as you said?

The "radical" Oregon ranchers and "radical" blacks are one in the same

Agreed

When does it stop?

It stops when people stop the blame game and people stop taking the lazy route and blame everything on racism.

---

I pretty much agree with all of your other sentiments though, and I appreciate your somewhat insightful response.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: theySeeme

So you are saying that the black fireman and his family who live across the street from me shouldn't be where they are because The Man kept them down?

Somehow, they have a normal, stable life with a normal, stable family. Kids are all going to school. Dad is in the house raising his kids. Oldest is in college now. Change their skin color and no one would know the difference. They are pretty much thoroughly middle class. Dad is even a gear head who has a race car.

So somehow, blacks manage to improve their lives all the time as there are other examples. I'm guessing all of us know them. So many of us are basing our assumptions of what blacks could and should be based of those we know who did well.

If anything I feel bad for the great ones I know how do everything right. They have to fight against the negative perceptions created by the larger part of the community who feel they can't do anything because they're too busy blaming everyone else for their crappy lives. It's like being the owner who has a wonderful pit bull because you've taken the time and effort to raise and train it properly having to fight against the societal negative perceptions created by all those who have vicious ones and blame the breed rather than their own poor handling of them.

Wow, you totally lost me. Did you quote the right post?

I will leave with this...

I would probably agree with you on a number of issues, I have seen cops hassling black teens because they were hanging out at a 711, and when asked (I was working in the store) what the kids did when they came in for a drink the cops said nothing we were bored.

That very same PD got glowing praise from BLM recently...

but in your title and in the first sentence of the OP you called anyone that doesnt agree with you a covert racist... that is not a good way to open a discussion, that flips it into a troll post even if you didnt mean to.

I do hope you find the peace in life we all deserve.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I will leave with this...

I would probably agree with you on a number of issues, I have seen cops hassling black teens because they were hanging out at a 711, and when asked (I was working in the store) what the kids did when they came in for a drink the cops said nothing we were bored.

That very same PD got glowing praise from BLM recently...

but in your title and in the first sentence of the OP you called anyone that doesnt agree with you a covert racist... that is not a good way to open a discussion, that flips it into a troll post even if you didnt mean to.

I do hope you find the peace in life we all deserve.

What do you mean by "That very same PD got glowing praise from BLM recently... ", what is that?

a reply to: theySeeme

I'd love to have a debate with you, but when I have to take time out to present sources and facts, I'd like you to do the same. Don't just blab, go on, cite some sources, prove your case.

Your first response to me - in which you fail to address a single point I made. Nice attitude, dude.

Ever heard of people paying taxes when they have a job? Ever heard of that being proof of employment? Dude, give it a break.

Again with the smart ass attitude, dude. And you expect me to give it a break?

Then you follow that attitude with this:

no one is really attacking you here, I'm not sure why you have such bad energy in your response

You cited pretty much everything? All you did was suggest that something may be false. The only thing you actually stated clearly is that you DON'T KNOW.

You claim you "cited pretty much everything". Look at your post. The only cited reference is one showing there is no evidence to cite... Think about that for a minute...

What would you like me to cite and source proof on, I'll gladly do it for you. Please let me know.

Okay:

* Cops kill more white people than blacks.
Prove this is a myth.
* Why don't black people protest black on black killings?
You cited nothing. Living in Chicago or the near suburbs nearly my whole life, I can tell you there are people who protest against the killing, but mostly blame white people for conditions that lead to those killings like low employment rates and the like. They do not address the root cause of the killings, which is what is needed to effect change.
* Black people don't work, use welfare to buy drugs.
You stated they have to either work or be seeking employment in order to qualify. I suggested that it is possible they are not in fact working but only 'seeking employment'. You deny that as a possibility. Why? You state a 6% statistic but cite no reference, nor do you state what percentage of that 6% is black. With no cited reference or supporting documentation it is possible that the entire 6% is white people. I am not saying that is the case, only that in the absence of cited reference it is possible.
* Michael Brown didn't have his hands up.
Prove it.

All you have done is make suggestions, unsupported by any cited reference of any kind, then claimed you cited 'pretty much everything', when you clearly did not. Then you take an attitude with me for using your own logic against you. Then you try to flip it and backpedal to make it look like I am attacking you. Sad. Just sad.

Oh, please address all my bullet points also. You are quick to call them myths, and me a "cover racist", but offer nothing in return except for more maybes and uncited references. If you are going to start a thread in which you call people any kind of racist, you really need to do your homework and offer more than maybe or suggest something is a myth because you don't know for sure. Your entire post is one long "we don't know" yet somehow you have enough information to call people racist. Please explain...

And one last question - if it turns out these are facts and not myths, are the people who say them still racist?

a reply to: theySeeme

I already made a post about the info I disagreed with. My first post I believe. I already answered about them being a threat. You call them a peaceful organization? Okay bud. More like a violent organization that is sometimes peaceful.


iTruthSeeker

a reply to: Nikola014

"Russian terrorists" who disrupted the EURO? What? Do you even know what a terrorist is?

A terrorist is someone who uses physical violence to achieve political ends.

Why are you comparing bunch of hooligans with Islamic terrorists?

Because the so-called "hooligans" were well trained, organized, and had the support of their government in using violence to achieve a political goal.

Do you think we should laugh at Islamic terrorists?

I do not think we should laugh at any terrorists. Why must you single out the Muslim ones?

Do you think they are some kind of a joke?

You seem to think that Russian skinhead terrorists are.

How come more people don't support this group, then?

You have no idea how many people support this group. All you know is that the hordes of right wing hate mongers you see here on ATS.

I'm betting if this group hard a larger support, you guys would be able to make any change you wish.

Too bad you don't have access to free media where you live. There is a groundswell of support that is resulting in federal investigations, the increasing use of cameras during police activities, increasing bridges being made between police and the communities they serve....

And you wouldn't rely on your president to bring up this topic in every single occasion he has.

What are you talking about? Isn't the President supposed to articulate the important issues?

American values...at this point, you're making me laugh

We know what your values are.

Okay:

* Cops kill more white people than blacks.
Prove this is a myth.

Director of the FBI James Comey, and the Attorney General of the U.S have admitted that there are no national statistics kept on police involved shootings, which means we do not have the information available to determine whether whites or blacks or mexicans or whoever are killed by the cops more. No one knows, literally no one, not even the head of the FBI.

Here is the Attorney General quoting the director of the FBI James Comey on film


So no one can say.
---------------------------------------------------------

* Why don't black people protest black on black killings?
You cited nothing. Living in Chicago or the near suburbs nearly my whole life, I can tell you there are people who protest against the killing, but mostly blame white people for conditions that lead to those killings like low employment rates and the like. They do not address the root cause of the killings, which is what is needed to effect change.

Here are many






There's literally hundreds of organizations dedicated to stopping gang violence, helping at risk black youth and other minorities find employment and education, ect. And they all often hold marches, peace walks, park events, ect. promoting their ideas and philosophies.

-------------------------------------------

* Black people don't work, use welfare to buy drugs.
You stated they have to either work or be seeking employment in order to qualify. I suggested that it is possible they are not in fact working but only 'seeking employment'. You deny that as a possibility. Why? You state a 6% statistic but cite no reference, nor do you state what percentage of that 6% is black. With no cited reference or supporting documentation it is possible that the entire 6% is white people. I am not saying that is the case, only that in the absence of cited reference it is possible.

When one is applying for welfare with seeking employment status, they have a short period of time before their benefits are cut off if they are unsuccessful in finding a job. Secondly, the jobs they do find are verified and often reffered through government sponsored programs such as Goodwill's "Back2Work" program.

* Michael Brown didn't have his hands up.
Prove it.

You want me to prove michael brown didn't have his hands up? If you bothered to read the same post you are quoting, I clearly state no one knows whether his hands are up except for 2 people, and one is dead. The 3rd was offered lower charges by police if he made statements supporting the cop, that's in the official report, you can read it online.

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

I already made a post about the info I disagreed with. My first post I believe. I already answered about them being a threat. You call them a peaceful organization? Okay bud. More like a violent organization that is sometimes peaceful.


iTruthSeeker

What is violent about BLM? Violent in what way? In the same way other groups get after a hockey game? Or worse? Please do tell.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: theySeeme

* Cops kill more white people than blacks.
Prove this is a myth

He's proven that the stats don't exist multiple times in this thread. Why are you ignoring it? Do you have an agenda? Are you racist? Man the # up about it if you are.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
* Why don't black people protest black on black killings?
You cited nothing. Living in Chicago or the near suburbs nearly my whole life, I can tell you there are people who protest against the killing, but mostly blame white people for conditions that lead to those killings like low employment rates and the like. They do not address the root cause of the killings, which is what is needed to effect change.

Prove what you say about most Black people in Chicago. Cite sources. I know you can't though.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
* Black people don't work, use welfare to buy drugs.
You stated they have to either work or be seeking employment in order to qualify. I suggested that it is possible they are not in fact working but only 'seeking employment'. You deny that as a possibility. Why? You state a 6% statistic but cite no reference, nor do you state what percentage of that 6% is black. With no cited reference or supporting documentation it is possible that the entire 6% is white people. I am not saying that is the case, only that in the absence of cited reference it is possible.

What? The OP simply stated that there's racist people on ATS like to spout this BS as if it were the gospel.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
* Michael Brown didn't have his hands up.
Prove it.

You prove otherwise, you can't. That was the OP's point. Is it reading comprehension, or are you racist? Which one?

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
blah blah blah

Your entire post does nothing but validate the OP's initial assertions.

originally posted by: Tsubaki

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: theySeeme

* Cops kill more white people than blacks.
Prove this is a myth

He's proven that the stats don't exist multiple times in this thread. Why are you ignoring it? Do you have an agenda? Are you racist? Man the # up about it if you are.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
* Why don't black people protest black on black killings?
You cited nothing. Living in Chicago or the near suburbs nearly my whole life, I can tell you there are people who protest against the killing, but mostly blame white people for conditions that lead to those killings like low employment rates and the like. They do not address the root cause of the killings, which is what is needed to effect change.

Prove what you say about most Black people in Chicago. Cite sources. I know you can't though.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
* Black people don't work, use welfare to buy drugs.
You stated they have to either work or be seeking employment in order to qualify. I suggested that it is possible they are not in fact working but only 'seeking employment'. You deny that as a possibility. Why? You state a 6% statistic but cite no reference, nor do you state what percentage of that 6% is black. With no cited reference or supporting documentation it is possible that the entire 6% is white people. I am not saying that is the case, only that in the absence of cited reference it is possible.

What? The OP simply stated that there's racist people on ATS like to spout this BS as if it were the gospel.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
* Michael Brown didn't have his hands up.
Prove it.

You prove otherwise, you can't. That was the OP's point. Is it reading comprehension, or are you racist? Which one?

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
blah blah blah

Your entire post does nothing but validate the OP's initial assertions.

Thank you, I swear it's hard to not feel like you are going crazy around here sometimes.

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

I already made a post about the info I disagreed with. My first post I believe. I already answered about them being a threat. You call them a peaceful organization? Okay bud. More like a violent organization that is sometimes peaceful.

*edit* There are many Black people who are sick of the BLM crap also, who voice the same concerns. What does that make them? How about the Black police chief's who also condemn them?


iTruthSeeker

What is violent about BLM? Violent in what way? In the same way other groups get after a hockey game? Or worse? Please do tell.

Ohh, throwing crap at police horses, killing one already. Cops injured from bottles and other missiles. 5 Dallas cops dead, while Micah may not have been a "member" of BLM, he for sure supports them as we already know. Watch a live stream from an independent source on these protests instead of the medias version. You will see the violence and rhetoric that the media conveniently leaves out.

You cannot even compare this to hockey games. Whole different motive and context.


iTruthSeeker