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Why do covert racists ignore the facts? when does it stop?

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posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:24 AM
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I was around ats with a different nickname back then when Occupy Wall Street was active. And i can see the same patterns and deflecting methods are used today to discredit BLM, just like with OWS. Same lame arguments. the OWS was also funded by Soros acording to neocons, just like they claim BLM is today. There were some bad apples among OWS wich they used to discredit the whole group.
I don't believe american neocons/rightwingers are driven by racism, most of them at least aren't. What i do believe is that most of neocons:/rightwingers on this site are people in their 50'ies, 60'ies or 70'ies who made a nice profit of the predatory capitalism and are used to see only white men in congress. They just can't comprehend that the system they grew up in is slowly dying so they try to discretid everything from global warming to other changes in our societies. Does it make them racist ? I don't think so. Just my 5 cents.




posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

I already made a post about the info I disagreed with. My first post I believe. I already answered about them being a threat. You call them a peaceful organization? Okay bud. More like a violent organization that is sometimes peaceful.


iTruthSeeker




What is violent about BLM? Violent in what way? In the same way other groups get after a hockey game? Or worse? Please do tell.


Ohh, throwing crap at police horses, killing one already. Cops injured from bottles and other missiles. 5 Dallas cops dead, while Micah may not have been a "member" of BLM, he for sure supports them as we already know. Watch a live stream from an independent source on these protests instead of the medias version. You will see the violence and rhetoric that the media conveniently leaves out.

You cannot even compare this to hockey games. Whole different motive and context.


iTruthSeeker


So BLM is responsible for the death of 5 police officers, even though BLM is against violence, even though the shooter stated he did not like nor affiliate with BLM? You feel threatened by BLM because of the actions of someone completely unrelated? Much like police feel threatened by people because of the actions of OTHER people?

I'll have you know more property damage has been done by people rioting after sports games. I'll have you know more people are assaulted at sporting events than those at BLM rallies/protests. I'll have you know more cops are injured in sports protests than are BLM.

Secondly, a police horse has NEVER been killed by BLM, stop making lies, post proof. Post a source of that ridiculous claim! I'll wait.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

i posted this in another thread,

do you realize how many people are arrested a year in the U.S..

if you look at by population, yes the numbers do seem high for blacks, but if you go by arrests, or by deaths by cop the numbers are way different. see that's what they do they use population to make it seem disproportionate, you got to remember there are way more white people than black people or other races, so if you use population you get a higher number of deaths for the lower number of population. but if you use Arrests, or just deaths by cops the numbers change.
plus if you look at the number of arrests the numbers


below i'm going to count the White and Black deaths seeing how so many think it is some outrageous disproportion.
this is from the FBI arrests

Police made an estimated 11,205,833 arrests during 2014—498,666 for violent crimes, and 1,553,980 for property crimes. More than 73 percent of those arrested during 2014 were male. Crime in the Uniterd States 2014


now this from the Guardian's The Counted. look at many white faces you see compared to the others. you will also see that if you click the filters they include accidental deaths by cops. which wouldn't be crime related except where the officer was at fault. like in car accidents.

The Counted

from the wiki, but if you use the data from the guardian




These lists are incomplete. Although Congress instructed the Attorney General in 1994 to compile and publish annual statistics on police use of excessive force, this was never carried out, and the FBI does not collect these data either.[1] The annual average number of justifiable homicides alone was previously estimated to be near 400.[2] Updated estimates from the Bureau of Justice Statistics released in 2015 estimate the number to be around 930 per year, or 1240 if assuming that nonreporting local agencies kill people at the same rate as reporting agencies.[3] The Washington Post has tracked shootings (only) since 2015, reporting 990 shootings in that year,[4] and more than 250 by the end of March 2016.

[5] Deaths by age group in 2015, according to The Counted The Guardian newspaper runs its own database,The Counted, which tracked US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender (1086 male, 53 female, 1 nonconforming) , race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed (853 armed, 224 unarmed).[6] The database has continued to add new cases into 2016.
List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States


just for comparisons sake, if we take the total number of arrests in 2014 ( the most complete year the FBI has released) and look at the total number of deaths from the guardian,

Total arrests 11,205,833
Total Deaths by Police 1146
Percent of Deaths 0.010226816694484024

now lets do this
Total Deaths by Police 1146
Total White Deaths by Police 581
Percent White Deaths by Police 50.698080279232116

Total Deaths by Police 1146
Total Black Deaths by Police 306
Percent Black Deaths by Police 26.701570680628272

see the difference, when you look at the numbers of Arrests / number of Deaths, which is the true count, because when you count it by population or any thing else your not looking at the true numbers.

or we could do it this way, again i'm going to have to use 2015 Graudian chart, 2015 Population by race( est as of July 1 2015 ) from U.S. Census Bureau
QuickFacts UNITED STATES
Total White Population 247 813 910 which if my math is correct is 77.1% according Census Bureau ( est as of July 1 2015 )
Total White Deaths 581
Percent Of White Deaths 0.00018076103944380108

Total Black Population 42,748,703 which if my math is correct is 13.3% according Census Bureau ( est as of July 1 2015 )
Total Black Deaths 306
Percent of Black Deaths 0.000715811191%

but if we use the same number for population for white deaths as the black population.
White Population 42,748,703
Deaths by Police 581
Percent Deaths by Police 0.00135910556%

so it seems to me a much clearer picture Deaths Per Arrests than any other way.

what is really needed is a way to track total number of deaths to calls that would really shed a better light.

but if we use just arrests it is plain to see that cops don't kill nearly as many people as is made out to be. it's just how you word the way it is said.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:31 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: theySeeme

i posted this in another thread,

do you realize how many people are arrested a year in the U.S..

if you look at by population, yes the numbers do seem high for blacks, but if you go by arrests, or by deaths by cop the numbers are way different. see that's what they do they use population to make it seem disproportionate, you got to remember there are way more white people than black people or other races, so if you use population you get a higher number of deaths for the lower number of population. but if you use Arrests, or just deaths by cops the numbers change.
plus if you look at the number of arrests the numbers


below i'm going to count the White and Black deaths seeing how so many think it is some outrageous disproportion.
this is from the FBI arrests

Police made an estimated 11,205,833 arrests during 2014—498,666 for violent crimes, and 1,553,980 for property crimes. More than 73 percent of those arrested during 2014 were male. Crime in the Uniterd States 2014


now this from the Guardian's The Counted. look at many white faces you see compared to the others. you will also see that if you click the filters they include accidental deaths by cops. which wouldn't be crime related except where the officer was at fault. like in car accidents.

The Counted

from the wiki, but if you use the data from the guardian




These lists are incomplete. Although Congress instructed the Attorney General in 1994 to compile and publish annual statistics on police use of excessive force, this was never carried out, and the FBI does not collect these data either.[1] The annual average number of justifiable homicides alone was previously estimated to be near 400.[2] Updated estimates from the Bureau of Justice Statistics released in 2015 estimate the number to be around 930 per year, or 1240 if assuming that nonreporting local agencies kill people at the same rate as reporting agencies.[3] The Washington Post has tracked shootings (only) since 2015, reporting 990 shootings in that year,[4] and more than 250 by the end of March 2016.

[5] Deaths by age group in 2015, according to The Counted The Guardian newspaper runs its own database,The Counted, which tracked US killings by police and other law enforcement agencies in 2015, and counted 1140 killed, with rates per million of 2.92 for "white" people, 7.2 for "black", and 3.5 for "hispanic/latino", 1.34 for "Asian/Pacific Islander", and 3.4 for "Native American". The database can be viewed by state, gender (1086 male, 53 female, 1 nonconforming) , race/ethnicity, age, classification (e.g., "gunshot"), and whether the person killed was armed (853 armed, 224 unarmed).[6] The database has continued to add new cases into 2016.
List of killings by law enforcement officers in the United States


just for comparisons sake, if we take the total number of arrests in 2014 ( the most complete year the FBI has released) and look at the total number of deaths from the guardian,

Total arrests 11,205,833
Total Deaths by Police 1146
Percent of Deaths 0.010226816694484024

now lets do this
Total Deaths by Police 1146
Total White Deaths by Police 581
Percent White Deaths by Police 50.698080279232116

Total Deaths by Police 1146
Total Black Deaths by Police 306
Percent Black Deaths by Police 26.701570680628272

see the difference, when you look at the numbers of Arrests / number of Deaths, which is the true count, because when you count it by population or any thing else your not looking at the true numbers.

or we could do it this way, again i'm going to have to use 2015 Graudian chart, 2015 Population by race( est as of July 1 2015 ) from U.S. Census Bureau
QuickFacts UNITED STATES
Total White Population 247 813 910 which if my math is correct is 77.1% according Census Bureau ( est as of July 1 2015 )
Total White Deaths 581
Percent Of White Deaths 0.00018076103944380108

Total Black Population 42,748,703 which if my math is correct is 13.3% according Census Bureau ( est as of July 1 2015 )
Total Black Deaths 306
Percent of Black Deaths 0.000715811191%

but if we use the same number for population for white deaths as the black population.
White Population 42,748,703
Deaths by Police 581
Percent Deaths by Police 0.00135910556%

so it seems to me a much clearer picture Deaths Per Arrests than any other way.

what is really needed is a way to track total number of deaths to calls that would really shed a better light.

but if we use just arrests it is plain to see that cops don't kill nearly as many people as is made out to be. it's just how you word the way it is said.








The problem with this type of statistic is that most people killed by the police are not classified as arrested, they are classified as killed in pursuit, so it's still invalid to go by. Secondly, as admitted by the director of the FBI and the attorney general of the U.S, and as I've posted over 5 times now, there is no record of how many civilians are shot by police, absolutely none.
edit on 14-7-2016 by theySeeme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:34 AM
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originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

I already made a post about the info I disagreed with. My first post I believe. I already answered about them being a threat. You call them a peaceful organization? Okay bud. More like a violent organization that is sometimes peaceful.


iTruthSeeker




What is violent about BLM? Violent in what way? In the same way other groups get after a hockey game? Or worse? Please do tell.


Ohh, throwing crap at police horses, killing one already. Cops injured from bottles and other missiles. 5 Dallas cops dead, while Micah may not have been a "member" of BLM, he for sure supports them as we already know. Watch a live stream from an independent source on these protests instead of the medias version. You will see the violence and rhetoric that the media conveniently leaves out.

You cannot even compare this to hockey games. Whole different motive and context.


iTruthSeeker


So BLM is responsible for the death of 5 police officers, even though BLM is against violence, even though the shooter stated he did not like nor affiliate with BLM? You feel threatened by BLM because of the actions of someone completely unrelated? Much like police feel threatened by people because of the actions of OTHER people?

I'll have you know more property damage has been done by people rioting after sports games. I'll have you know more people are assaulted at sporting events than those at BLM rallies/protests. I'll have you know more cops are injured in sports protests than are BLM.

Secondly, a police horse has NEVER been killed by BLM, stop making lies, post proof. Post a source of that ridiculous claim! I'll wait.



On the surface, sure they say they are against violence but as we have seen, are capable of it and have committed it. There already is a post about Micah and him "denouncing" BLM, which stinks and may have been purposely been added in to distance him from blm. As far as the horse, I was wrong, it was done at a Trump rally by leftists whom have the same mentality and agenda as BLM, but I was wrong about where it occurred I admit that.


iTruthSeeker



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:35 AM
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originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
a reply to: theySeeme

I already made a post about the info I disagreed with. My first post I believe. I already answered about them being a threat. You call them a peaceful organization? Okay bud. More like a violent organization that is sometimes peaceful.


iTruthSeeker




What is violent about BLM? Violent in what way? In the same way other groups get after a hockey game? Or worse? Please do tell.


Ohh, throwing crap at police horses, killing one already. Cops injured from bottles and other missiles. 5 Dallas cops dead, while Micah may not have been a "member" of BLM, he for sure supports them as we already know. Watch a live stream from an independent source on these protests instead of the medias version. You will see the violence and rhetoric that the media conveniently leaves out.

You cannot even compare this to hockey games. Whole different motive and context.


iTruthSeeker


So BLM is responsible for the death of 5 police officers, even though BLM is against violence, even though the shooter stated he did not like nor affiliate with BLM? You feel threatened by BLM because of the actions of someone completely unrelated? Much like police feel threatened by people because of the actions of OTHER people?

I'll have you know more property damage has been done by people rioting after sports games. I'll have you know more people are assaulted at sporting events than those at BLM rallies/protests. I'll have you know more cops are injured in sports protests than are BLM.

Secondly, a police horse has NEVER been killed by BLM, stop making lies, post proof. Post a source of that ridiculous claim! I'll wait.



On the surface, sure they say they are against violence but as we have seen, are capable of it and have committed it. There already is a post about Micah and him "denouncing" BLM, which stinks and may have been purposely been added in to distance him from blm. As far as the horse, I was wrong, it was done at a Trump rally by leftists whom have the same mentality and agenda as BLM, but I was wrong about where it occurred I admit that.


iTruthSeeker


Thanks for admitting you are wrong, I also want to add that the horse was not killed, only suffered a broken leg.

Which makes the question remain - when has BLM committed violent acts? When has any official of BLM sponsored or advocated violence? I just want one instance, and I'll take what you say as fact. Just one!
edit on 14-7-2016 by theySeeme because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

the Guardian calls it police encounters, not arrests.

so that blows your not arrested out of the water.

click the about on the Guardian link and scroll down. you will see this.

What is included in The Counted?
Any deaths arising directly from encounters with law enforcement. This will inevitably include, but will likely not be limited to, people who were shot, tasered and struck by police vehicles as well those who died in police custody.


the other numbers i posted are for compassion sake. but still if you just consider the encounters as i noted from the get go above the guardian link it's nothing like your wanting to make out.


edit on 14-7-2016 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: theySeeme

the Traesian galls it police encounters, not arrests.

so that blows your not arrested out of the water.

click the about on the Guardian link and scroll down. you will see this.

What is included in The Counted?
Any deaths arising directly from encounters with law enforcement. This will inevitably include, but will likely not be limited to, people who were shot, tasered and struck by police vehicles as well those who died in police custody.




Again, the Attorney General of the U.S. and the Director of the FBI have admitted, on film, on official record that there are no such statistics kept. They both also expressed great concern for it and hinted at it hopefully changing in the future. Do you understand that at all?



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:37 AM
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I am not going to go on and on with you. It looks bad on my post history as you claimed, to debate about BLM. Pretty sad to be called out just because of the hot topics I post on. Typical leftist tactics.


iTruthSeeker



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:38 AM
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originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
I am not going to go on and on with you. It looks bad on my post history as you claimed, to debate about BLM. Pretty sad to be called out just because of the hot topics I post on. Typical leftist tactics.


iTruthSeeker


I'm glad I was able to educate you today. If you need to be fact checked again, don't hesitate to return, I'll gladly do the research for you.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:42 AM
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originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
I am not going to go on and on with you. It looks bad on my post history as you claimed, to debate about BLM. Pretty sad to be called out just because of the hot topics I post on. Typical leftist tactics.


iTruthSeeker


I'm glad I was able to educate you today. If you need to be fact checked again, don't hesitate to return, I'll gladly do the research for you.



Why did you edit your post and remove "show me once instance of BLM violence" ?


Now I see it.. Here is a video already posted.

www.infowars.com...

Yea it is info wars so what.


iTruthSeeker
edit on 14-7-2016 by iTruthSeeker because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: stinkelbaum
a reply to: TheBulk




However 13% of the population is committing over half of the violent crime in this country.

which leaves 87% committing the rest, but they must be ok?


I think you have missed the point that makes by only a couple of light years.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

i never said that this was a Government static other than the FBI report. the Guardian, keeps track by combing through reports on the internet, news broadcasts and any other information they find.

so if you use their number of encounters and do the math in a more balanced fashion, ie Number of encounters divided by number of deaths, not use per millions or population, you see that white people are killed way more than others.


edit on 14-7-2016 by hounddoghowlie because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:44 AM
link   

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker
I am not going to go on and on with you. It looks bad on my post history as you claimed, to debate about BLM. Pretty sad to be called out just because of the hot topics I post on. Typical leftist tactics.


iTruthSeeker


I'm glad I was able to educate you today. If you need to be fact checked again, don't hesitate to return, I'll gladly do the research for you.



Why did you edit your post and remove "show me once instance of BLM violence" ?


Now I see it.. Here is a video already posted.

www.infowars.com...

Yea it is info wars so what.


iTruthSeeker


?

It's still there. Why are you deflecting?



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: theySeeme

i never said that this was a Government static other than the FBI report. the Guardian, keeps track by combing through trports on the internet, news broadcast and any other information they find.

so if you use there number of encounters and do the math in a more balanced fashion, ie Number of encounters divided by number of deaths, not use per millions or population, you see that white people are killed way more than others.



But we can agree that not every incident is covered by the news correct?



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:46 AM
link   

originally posted by: iTruthSeeker

Why did you edit your post and remove "show me once instance of BLM violence" ?


Now I see it.. Here is a video already posted.

www.infowars.com...

Yea it is info wars so what.


iTruthSeeker


Ah, so one person who supports BLM advocating for death means that the BLM organization is advocating? Tell me, if a trump supporter advocates for the death of blacks and mexicans, does that mean Trump is advocating for death? If you aren't ready to use your logic for one thing, don't use it for the other. That's called being biased.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:47 AM
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a reply to: dukeofjive696969

And now their protests kill people and call for people to be killed because of their skin color and occupation.
edit on 14-7-2016 by avgguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:51 AM
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a reply to: theySeeme

yes,

but you can bet that the news covers a whole have of a lot. and doesn't miss a chance to report a killing by cop over the past two years, on any race even more so on the killing of blacks.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:52 AM
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originally posted by: hounddoghowlie
a reply to: theySeeme

yes,

but you can bet that the news covers a whole have of a lot. and doesn't miss a chance to report a killing by cop over the past two years, on any race even more so on the killing of blacks.





But we can agree that the data is incomplete because information is missing, thus these statistics are inaccurate and incorrect.



posted on Jul, 14 2016 @ 08:52 AM
link   

originally posted by: theySeeme

originally posted by: TheBulk
13% of the population commits over 50% of the violent crime in this country. What's racist about discussing this reality?




Statistics show there are more white women in battered women shelters than there are black, yet there are more black men in jail for domestic violence. See what I mean?



Yes, but that could be because white women are more willing to accept the social stigma that often goes with leaving an abuser, and they feel like they will have more of a support network. A white woman has a greater chance of having informal community support as well as structural social support, while a black woman faces more dire consequences. There is a risk matrix difference for white women vs. black women that doesn't have much directly to do with the abuser himself. Which is still a commentary on social racial disparity but it is also a more nuanced picture than Black Men Don't Abuse Women But Still End Up In Jail For It More.

I get where you're coming from and I do think that police target black and Hispanic people more. The issue is more systematic though, the social stigma is still ubiquitous and so minorities are still more likely to be poor, and poverty is associated with more violence, drug use etc., etc. The police are more and more tools for the elite to intimidate and subdue the masses, and the masses are becoming increasingly destitute compared to the elite. Growing wealth disparity is a bigger driver in this than race IMO; race is part of that, but it is also being used as a social, contentious wedge for us plebs, as well as a way to confuse the situation.



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