Parents, I apologize.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Annee

Threaten to shut their phone off

I never made threats.

That's kinda a joke.

Not sure how many teenagers you've raised.

But, teenagers and their phones . . . .

I got it.

I guess my dry wit requires an acquired taste.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Annee

Threaten to shut their phone off

I never made threats.

That's kinda a joke.

Not sure how many teenagers you've raised.

But, teenagers and their phones . . . .

I got it.

I guess my dry wit requires an acquired taste.

Oh, you know.

Doesn't always translate on the net.

Need more specific emojis.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Annee

Threaten to shut their phone off

I never made threats.

That's kinda a joke.

Not sure how many teenagers you've raised.

But, teenagers and their phones . . . .

Raising teenagers is the toughest parenting responsibility and at times I did threaten, but not physical violence, with removing their bedroom door and taking away their privacy. It worked every time. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: Annee

Threaten to shut their phone off

I never made threats.

That's kinda a joke.

Not sure how many teenagers you've raised.

But, teenagers and their phones . . . .

Raising teenagers is the toughest parenting responsibility and at times I did threaten, but not physical violence, with removing their bedroom door and taking away their privacy. It worked every time. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

I did take the door off.

I have 2 daughters. "Church goer" and "Wild Child". As opposite as you can get.

Wild child is one of those who's gonna do what she wants, no matter what. Gotta admit, she never lied (omission doesn't count), and always did it with a smile.

And she's still that way.

a reply to: Annee

I had to take off my daughter's bedroom door because after threatening to she was still defiant - so, off it came to her surprise. Follow through is a must! Funny enough, my son gave it up with just the threat, but he is the oldest so should know we meant business at that point. But in no way did we face the problems facing this woman.

And the prison studies/stats (per Dr. Drew) show corporal punishment works in the opposite result than what you would expect. As most inmates were beaten/whupped as children.

District Attorney Hillary Moore said his office will have to review all the evidence in the case before determining whether or not his office will pursue formal charges. "The degree of physical discipline will be reviewed," said Moore. "The law does not allow excessive pain or cruelty but does allow physical parental discipline. He did say he doesn't want to discourage parents from disciplining their children. "In my life if I had done that, those allegations, I guarantee you that by the time I came home, I'd be met by a four-foot-eleven mother with a pot a pan and a stick and later on by a six-foot tall dad who instilled discipline and inflicted discipline on me and I believe that surely helped me in growing up," he said. Moore said his office will review everything and meet with DCFS "to get a better picture of the entire family dynamics" before deciding whether or not they want to prosecute Spears. "What the law says, it's really simple, although it makes it difficult," said Moore. "It's unjustifiable pain or protracted pain that's inflicted on a child. That's what the facts are and that's what if have to prove." He added that "parents have the right and obligation to discipline and teach their children." "We often time see children who have no parental authority or discipline which eventually results in delinquency and criminal acts," Moore said. "We need more parents who discipline their children. Surely you would expect a parent to discipline a child who is burglarizing other people’s homes as this could be a deadly encounter for the child."

www.wafb.com...

originally posted by: InTheLight
Follow through is a must!

I think physical punishment depends greatly on degree, age, circumstance, etc.

But, the restriction has gone too far. It's now become a tool in the hands of a defiant child.

We've had to deal with CPS twice with the teenage girl. She was at her dad's house. He wanted her to put down the phone and socialize with the family. She didn't do it. So he took it away from her. She got hysteric (max overdrive), and he pinned her to the ground. Did not hit her, just pinned her down til she calmed down. Yes, she had some bruises where he held her down.

She went to her school counselor. SHE HAD THE POWER. We completely supported the father. But, with a vindictive ex-wife - - you can imagine how that could have gone.

2nd time was a similar situation. But, in that case it was a "newbie type" counselor that over-reacted.

a reply to: Annee

If he managed to get the phone off her (a violation of taking her personal property and violation of physical space) why not just wait out the tantrum and then make like a broken record about the importance of family time - maybe she didn't feel like socializing for many reasons, such as hormonal spike, didn't get along with step mother, etc. ... nobody will know, because nobody bothered to try to find out as a first response. So, now we have a power struggle - them against me.

My teenage daughter often didn't want to join family time either due to various reasons, so we didn't force her. Now, as an adult, she seeks family time and appreciates it. No pressure!

Pinning a teenage girl down shows the father had no tools in handling a young adult (which may due to the fact he was not the main caregiver while she was growing up and didn't know how to relate to her) and he too was acting in an out of control manner. And some bruises hurt and take weeks to heal. Maybe I've read too many parenting books, but teenagers are half kid/half adult-wannabes struggling with pressure from all sides.

Also, I noticed most counselors are all too ready to blame the parents (it must be #1 reason in their little pysche book, but sometimes it is the parents' lack of education) when it is usually a mix of peer pressure and finding their adult footing (therefore standing up for what they know are their rights - which they have by law). But, surprise - kids have the right to not be physically assaulted in any manner.

Depends on the kids.

Physical punishment shouldn't be the first or only tool in a parenting tool-kit. But saying you'll never use it, or saying no parent ever needs it, is like saying there are only 3 types of kids in the world.

Once upon a time a kid threatened to call Child Protective Services on the parent. The parent said, "before you do..." and took them on a web-tour of the state's foster program, and all of the complaints of physical (!) and sexual abuse in the program. The parent pointed out that if the kid was removed, they'd disappear into the state apparatus and probably never be permitted to see their parents or siblings again (even at Christmas!) and would in all likelihood be raised by people engaged in "foster farming", raising a large number of children at minimal cost to get that glorious government check. That there'd be no help with college, no car and probably no cell phone in a foster farm. The kid was so scared that it lectured it's siblings on the dangers of calling CPS!

THE END.
(It's just a story. nothing like that really happened. Because if it did, it would probably be considered abuse by the state CPS officials.)

a reply to: InTheLight

a reply to: redempsh
You reminded me of the time my friend called the child protection agency, asking them for the number for parent abuse. She said that her children were abusing her, and she wanted to know who she could call. She was just ranting.

It was back in 1976, and she was lucky enough to get an awesome social worker that came out the house and talked to her children, pretty much telling them the same things.

I wish I could say it was the ultimate fix, but they were young children, so their memories had to be refreshed on occasion.

a reply to: InTheLight
Spanking seems to be trending again.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

If that is the reality of disciplinary action at work, those people must need those jobs very badly to accept that abuse. Some of their culture (and other cultures around the world) and traditions there leave much to be desired.

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Annee

If he managed to get the phone off her (a violation of taking her personal property and violation of physical space) why not just wait out the tantrum and then make like a broken record about the importance of family time . . .

Do not agree at all. My house, my rules.

I pay for the phone, its my phone, not hers.

I completely support the father in forcing her to get her # together and join the family. He only gets her 3 weekends a month.

She gets out in the real world and thinks her drama is more important then being part of society?

Not in my world.

I was all for this kind of parenting until I did my research...
Punishing a child with physical force only teaches the child to manage strong emotions using the same mechanism. Will get flamed for this I'm sure. But it's true. The non use of force method of parenting has always produced better children than the use of force method. It's basically corporal punishment on a minor. Sure kids need boundary's and rules, but the threat of physical violence has shown to have little immediate effect but long term psychological effects. I have seen kids get hit by their parent and go right back to being a spoiled brat in 2 seconds. It doesn't work! At home corporal punishment is now illegal in 42 countries.Source

Funny how some of the most PC/SJW ATS members are advocates for use of force parenting. Of course that kind of makes sense because most SJW's are generally left leaning, and the left is generally for the application of force methods to get what they want.

I'm sure the mother is just doing her best.
But the fact these children got to this level of delinquency in the first place is the problem. I'd bet this isn't the first time she used force on her children with minimal results either. This is as much a cultural problem as much as it is a parenting problem. Where these children boys in particular have no genuine male role-models to look up to. Because the majority of whom are sitting in jail for stupid possession charges or some crap. Simply beating these kids into submission will never work. Just like free range parenting will never work. Until we address these fundamental issues with parenting, punishment, and morals we will continue to see our kids growing up into dysfunctional adults.

Disclaimer:
I was spanked as a child and don't have any children of my own.
I am speaking purely from a research standpoint.

a reply to: InTheLight

If that is the reality of disciplinary action at work, those people must need those jobs very badly to accept that abuse.

I cringe when I think about some of abuse I have witnessed employees take from their employers.

Almost every time, when asked why they put up the abuse, they answer, "at least I have a job."

I pray I am never in a situation were I need a job that badly.

a reply to: JAY1980

This is as much a cultural problem as much as it is a parenting problem. Where these children boys in particular have no genuine male role-models to look up to. Because the majority of whom are sitting in jail for stupid possession charges or some crap.

This something that really bothers me. I don't understand how we as a society can point fingers and erect blame towards parents, when our society is designed to sabotage the parent at every turn.

Mother's can't stay home to care for their children any more because it takes two incomes to have a nice, home in a nice community, to provide your children with a decent education and to survive.

Children are forced to entertain themselves. So children are given electronic devices that cause deterioration of personal social skills. We support and fund the entertainment industry that teaches and encourages, sexuality, misogyny, racism, and selfishness.

Then we blame the parents and the children for the results.

What is wrong with this picture?

originally posted by: JAY1980
I was all for this kind of parenting until I did my research...
Punishing a child with physical force only teaches the child to manage strong emotions using the same mechanism. Will get flamed for this I'm sure. But it's true. The non use of force method of parenting has always produced better children than the use of force method. It's basically corporal punishment on a minor. Sure kids need boundary's and rules, but the threat of physical violence has shown to have little immediate effect but long term psychological effects. I have seen kids get hit by their parent and go right back to being a spoiled brat in 2 seconds. It doesn't work! At home corporal punishment is now illegal in 42 countries.Source

Funny how some of the most PC/SJW ATS members are advocates for use of force parenting. Of course that kind of makes sense because most SJW's are generally left leaning, and the left is generally for the application of force methods to get what they want.

I'm sure the mother is just doing her best.
But the fact these children got to this level of delinquency in the first place is the problem. I'd bet this isn't the first time she used force on her children with minimal results either. This is as much a cultural problem as much as it is a parenting problem. Where these children boys in particular have no genuine male role-models to look up to. Because the majority of whom are sitting in jail for stupid possession charges or some crap. Simply beating these kids into submission will never work. Just like free range parenting will never work. Until we address these fundamental issues with parenting, punishment, and morals we will continue to see our kids growing up into dysfunctional adults.

Disclaimer:
I was spanked as a child and don't have any children of my own.
I am speaking purely from a research standpoint.

I appreciate your viewpoint, but disagree.

I had written out an in-depth response, but I think I can sum up my view in just few generalizations.

The trouble with communicating "I'll never spank you", is that it trains children to be little lawyers. They can always wheedle and compromise, and keep you talking to get a better deal.

the whole idea of logical consequences is geared toward older children (who are too old to spank, anyway.) Reasoning with a toddler is bewhildering, because they are pre-logical.

"don't put a knife in the elecrical outlet, our else you'll get time-out" is a pretty difficult sell. So is, "Don't you dare run away from me, or else I shall berate you a second time!!!"

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I can answer that. While I agree that many public and private institutions seem to go out of their way at times to undermine the efforts, which makes parenting more difficult, one can not blame these institutions for the actions (or lack thereof) by parents when they are WITH their kids.

I see it WAY too often in the playgrounds, parks and pools (let alone restaurants, supermarkets and department stores).

Our son is 4 /12 so we tend to observe kids in that general age range. I see kids running rampant that their parents are sitting there texting on their phones. I see kids literally walking up to other kids and taking toys away from them while their parents just sit there and say nothing or even think it's "cute."

Just the other day we were at the park and our son was climbing up a diagonal ladder to reach the top of a slide structure. Some girl that seemed to be a little bit older was literally trying to climb OVER him. My wife and I glanced over at this girl's mother and were shocked that she was standing there with a dull look on her face WATCHING THIS and didn't say a word. It wasn't until I called up to the girl and told her to give the boy in front of her some space that she backed down. Once my son came down the slide he ran over to an adjacent piece of playground equipment and when I would look over at this "mother" once in a while, the girl was doing the exact same thing to other kids. As we were leaving I noticed another mother getting into an argument with her (which I am always reluctant to do because I don't need my 4 year old to see me arguing with random strangers).

From Mommy & Me through Pre-K we have met many parents. Of the ones that we would have play dates with, there are some that we had to stop socializing with because of the way their kids behaved (which is much different than some of them act in a school setting, where we typically see them).

Are there some good, attentive parents out there? Sure. Are there tons and tons and TONS of terrible parents that don't bother disciplining their kids? You bet'cha. Quite frankly, I'm sick of them already.

So yes, a lot can be said about schools or Hollywood and a bunch of other institutions. However, there is no single greater factor in a kid misbehaving than the parents.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Annee

If he managed to get the phone off her (a violation of taking her personal property and violation of physical space) why not just wait out the tantrum and then make like a broken record about the importance of family time . . .

Do not agree at all. My house, my rules.

I pay for the phone, its my phone, not hers.

I completely support the father in forcing her to get her # together and join the family. He only gets her 3 weekends a month.

She gets out in the real world and thinks her drama is more important then being part of society?

Not in my world.

We then disagree on this issue. Also, you really don't know why she didn't feel like socializing in that instance because nobody bothered to ask her.

a reply to: eluryh22

while their parents just sit there and say nothing or even think it's "cute."

No argument with me there. My friends and family get tried of me saying, "If it is not cute at 22, then it is not cute at 2". Inappropriate behavior cannot be encouraged when young, and then punished when they are older.

I am not excusing poor parenting. I understand that our society is no longer supportive of parents. When I was a child, children were the responsibility of the whole community. Not so any more.