Parents, I apologize.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

"If it is not cute at 22, then it is not cute at 2

I'm just going to go ahead and steal that line from you for future use.

When I was a child, children were the responsibility of the whole community. Not so any more.

I think this may have already been stated in this thread but I do remember when I was a kid, there was almost like a NATO thing going on with the parents on the neighborhood. If we were acting like idiots, it doesn't matter which kid's parent saw it. One parent had the same jurisdiction as all the other parents. "If you see one of OUR kids doing something stupid, you tell 'em to stop.... OR ELSE!" Fortunately, we never really had to find out what "or else" meant.

a reply to: InTheLight

The article below explains in detail how teenagers and their 'tethered' phones should be handled from the get-go.

It is a parent’s job to teach teens that becoming an adult means finding and asserting your own authority. This is a great opportunity to model for your child what it means to be an adult by showing confidence in your rules and also by gaining their trust. At the end of the day, parents must parent. When teens learn to find their own authority, they learn that people cannot pressure them. What you are modeling for your children is that strong central core so they’re not vulnerable to peer group socialization. Once they have that strong core and sense of self, things like bullying and peer pressure are no longer as big of an issue, and they are more confident in using a cell phone of their own and proud of the responsibility.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

if she is so keen to whip out the belt then how many times has she done this before but not been caught?

i dont feel sorry for her, actions have concequences.
whjy they breaking in the first place, probabyl coz home life is terrible and probably dont get enough love from family.
all this is based on parents performance on being a paretn and seems she has not performed well


a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

When I was young there was no such thing as wondering if you were going to get punished. If you did something wrong you knew you were going to get smacked. The thing was that my parents were different. Mom, well you knew she would smack you if you did something she thought was wrong. Dad, on the other hand, would explain why it was wrong if it was the first time you did it. You got a pass for not knowing it was wrong. But only to a point. The first time he spanked me for something I never did before I asked him why. He said, "Because you are old enough to figure it out for yourself now, and you should have known better." That lesson stayed with me my whole life. There is a point where ignorance is no excuse. You know in your heart if it is right or wrong. He was a good dad. He could spank the paint off a car door...but he was a good dad.

Havent read the whole thread but I will say that I sincerely thank my parents for every lickin I got from them, at 53 years old I have never been in jail outside of a couple of minor dust ups I had in my younger days. My parents did right by me.

a reply to: InTheLight

This is a great opportunity to model for your child what it means to be an adult by showing confidence in your rules and also by gaining their trust. At the end of the day, parents must parent.

The core of the problem is that parents must instruct and discipline their children. Children do not learn by osmosis.

If a parent feels their child has to have a cell phone, the type of cell phone that I use works just fine. It makes calls and it receives calls. Isn't that what a phone is supposed to do? Almost all of those kids have tablets, lap tops, or home computers, so the safest thing for children, is a phone that is a phone, not a mini computer and tracking device.

IMHO

originally posted by: darepairman
Havent read the whole thread but I will say that I sincerely thank my parents for every lickin I got from them, at 53 years old I have never been in jail outside of a couple of minor dust ups I had in my younger days. My parents did right by me.

It is part of the grooming process to make disciplining parents the ogre. Notice that very little is being said about what the children did wrong. The focus is all on the mother that tried to correct the problem. She tried to nip it in the bud, but she is the one being thrown under the bus.

You know what message this is sending to every kid out there? This is not a mission to protect these children from a poor parent. If the police had handled the problem, the headlines would have been much different, but the mother would have still been thrown under the bus.

I hope people can see the direction we are being pushed.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn

originally posted by: darepairman
Havent read the whole thread but I will say that I sincerely thank my parents for every lickin I got from them, at 53 years old I have never been in jail outside of a couple of minor dust ups I had in my younger days. My parents did right by me.

It is part of the grooming process to make disciplining parents the ogre. Notice that very little is being said about what the children did wrong. The focus is all on the mother that tried to correct the problem. She tried to nip it in the bud, but she is the one being thrown under the bus.

You know what message this is sending to every kid out there? This is not a mission to protect these children from a poor parent. If the police had handled the problem, the headlines would have been much different, but the mother would have still been thrown under the bus.

I hope people can see the direction we are being pushed.

It is the type of discipline that is question, that being, using physical assault to do the job of disciplining instead of educating oneself with the tools that work. Too many parents let technology do the babysitting for them, thus freeing them of the hard work of parenting, then lash out at the child when they try to assert control, when rules and co-operation (compromise from both sides) were probably never really established.

This woman, 'a working woman', seems to be trying to be a good role model and elevate her children out of poverty. The sad part is that she could not parent and work at the same time. I don't throw her under the bus, but she and her children need assistance in more ways than one.

a reply to: InTheLight

It is the type of discipline that is question, that being, using physical assault to do the job of disciplining instead of educating oneself with the tools that work. Too many parents let technology do the babysitting for them, thus freeing them of the hard work of parenting, then lash out at the child when they try to assert control, when rules and co-operation (compromise from both sides) were probably never really established.

I will not try to micro manage the problems this woman had in her home. Raising teenagers has always been a challenge, and I believe it is even more difficult today. My children are grown, but I have nieces, nephews, children of friends and neighbors, that I interact with regularly. I pick them up, feed them, teach them, play with them, and protect them, when it is needed.

Within my personal group I notice a large range of parenting styles. One thing though that seems to me that is lacking, is the respect. Almost all of the parents in my group, think that children should be treated as equals, and it is the parent's job is to keep their children happy.

Since it is not my job to make sure they are happy, Auntie becomes the one that everyone has to listen to, and whose rules have to be followed.

It is surprising to the parents, that when given a choice, most of the children want to go to Nana's and Auntie's house. Why? Because Auntie's and Nana's house is fun, and it is safe. They know what they can do, and they know what they can't. If they aren't sure, they ask. They know that if they don't follow the rules, there will be consequences. They know what those consequence are, and they know they will not be allowed to come back to Nana's and Auntie's house.

The parents also know what the rules are, and I have received permission from the parents to exact the punishment of my choice, including spanking, if I think it is called for. To be honest, the parents trust me because they know that all I have to do is look at them, most of the time, and they straighten up. The little ones will sometimes cry, because Auntie "looked" at them. You know why? Because they "knew" instinctively that what they were doing was wrong, and it hurt them that they were being seen as being a bad child.

Most of the time I don't have to do more than to look at the child that is misbehaving. If I have to speak with the child, at the end of the conversation I always ask this question, "How many times does Auntie tell you something?"" The answer is, "Once".

It is clearly understood that if the inappropriate behavior is repeated, a suitable punishment "will" follow. I once had a defiant two year old that attempted to challenge me, but his older brother quickly grabbed him and said, "No!" "Auntie won't let us come back if you don't listen". The little brat feared displeasing his brother more than me.

I say all of this just to make a simple point. Children are much smarter than we give them credit for. You can't place children on a pedestal, and not expect them to treat you like they are your Lords and Masters. Children don't need us to be their best friends. They need us to be their parents, their mentors, their guardians, their teachers. Consistency, love, and mutual respect, goes a long way.

The reality is that as adults we all have made bad choices in our lives, and we make mistakes. All of life is a child's playground, it is where they learn the basics of survival. We have to realize that children are not going to get it right all the time, and they shouldn't be punished "just" because they got it wrong. We have to understand that "normal" is when they get it wrong. That is why more attention should be made when they get something right, than when they do something wrong. It sure makes for a more respectful and peaceful home.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I agree that mutual respect is in order, but learning the hows and what fors is the trick. And the younger child just needed the realization that Auntie's place is worth following the rules, not so much to please anyone but himself; younger children are very predictable and manageable when you know how - make it worth their while = reward system = compliance. Teenagers require a whole different approach; avoid demon dialogue and establish reasonable house rules in consultation with your teenager.

www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au...

When I was a kid, if I misbehaved, I got the belt, the flyswat, the hickory stick, the switch, or the ear yank. Running my mouth off got my mouth painted with one of those brushes men used to put soap on their face for shaving, and I learned very young, dial, coast and irish spring do NOT taste as good as they smell. If I screwed up in public, it was a looooooooong ride home dreading what would happen. I learned not to disobey, period. There was none of this "let them be", "they are discovering their identity", "show them respect they show it back" bull crap that has filtered down to children, raising a generation of pretty worthless, self centered, entitled brats.

As a child, you have no rights but those your parents think you should be allowed. You do not deserve a phone, a pc, a tablet, unlimited time with your friends, or an allowance. It's not keeping you down, it's called teaching you the world doesn't owe you anything.

My oldest is one of the millennials, and no matter how I tried to raise her, the indoctrination from school turned her into a trumped up mini princess. Discipline was a hard thing, because children would run to the guidance counselor and the fear of losing your kid reigns in what you can and can't do. Up until high school she minded and obeyed, very little punishment needed. Then, it all began with, you can't spank me, I have rights. You can't take my phone, its my right, I'll call the cops and say you beat me.

As a nation, we are raising a generation of kids that do not have the discipline, the will power, or the drive to handle adversity. Local, state and federal government make it impossible to discipline them at older ages, and even younger ones are getting in on the racketeering.

I am glad I won't be alive long enough to see the end result of this.

a reply to: InTheLight

younger children are very predictable and manageable when you know how

I agree with you, but I think teens are just as predictable, if not more so, if you take the time to know your teen, and more importantly, know their friends, and the family of their friends.

Teens are a bit tricky because they want to be the same as their peers, but they want to stand out. Teens are usually always in the "Accept Me!" mode, occasionally, slipping over into the, "I am the same but special", mode. They liked to have their egos stroked, and they like a challenge. They don't like failure. So if you give them a challenge they can overcome with time, strategy, cunning, strength, courage, determination, or even deception, they feel they have won.

You are right that it is more about pleasing themselves than pleasing anyone else, but that can be used to your advantage.

The easiest way for me to get the teens to do what I need them to do, is to choose one among them to do the task, explaining they were chosen because they are so good at doing the job. The rest fall over each other trying to prove they can do it better than the first one chosen.

Teens are usually very predictable.

a reply to: tnhiker

As a nation, we are raising a generation of kids that do not have the discipline, the will power, or the drive to handle adversity. Local, state and federal government make it impossible to discipline them at older ages, and even younger ones are getting in on the racketeering.

I believe that the message they are sending is that you don't "have" to listen to your parents. You have rights, and you can do whatever you choose. Turn in your parents if they don't agree, and we will punish your parents for punishing you.

In the mean time back at the ranch.....

If a police officer says jump, your better not even ask how high. You jump and pray that you just jumped, and made no forward momentum, or you just became a threat; you die.

If a police officer says drop that phone, and you hesitate, or look at him wrong, you just became a threat; you die.

If the law disciplines your child it is permissible, and they are permitted to do it in anyway they choose. Of course, they would never use a belt or an electrical cord. They will likely taser them into unconsciousness, break their neck, or just shoot them, and they are always vindicated.

You spank them, you are a horrible parent. Go directly to jail. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

As a child, you have no rights but those your parents think you should be allowed. You do not deserve a phone, a pc, a tablet, unlimited time with your friends, or an allowance. It's not keeping you down, it's called teaching you the world doesn't owe you anything.

Phones, PCs, Tablets, unlimited friend time, and allowances, are not rights. You are doing a disservice to rights by conflating them. Please do not do that.

My oldest is one of the millennials, and no matter how I tried to raise her, the indoctrination from school turned her into a trumped up mini princess. Discipline was a hard thing, because children would run to the guidance counselor and the fear of losing your kid reigns in what you can and can't do. Up until high school she minded and obeyed, very little punishment needed. Then, it all began with, you can't spank me, I have rights. You can't take my phone, its my right, I'll call the cops and say you beat me.

It sounds somewhat like you might have been overly reliant on physical punishment? Spanking a teenager is an awful idea anyway. If she's threatening to call the cops and tell them you beat her just because you tried to restrict her phone access then either the United State's school system is even more awful than I thought, your daughter has fallen in with some baaad friends, or you have f*cked up royally in some way.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Spanking a teenager is an awful idea anyway. If she's threatening to call the cops and tell them you beat her just because you tried to restrict her phone access then either the United State's school system is even more awful than I thought, your daughter has fallen in with some baaad friends, or you have f*cked up royally in some way.

I think for most parents, corporal punishment is the last straw, when they believe everything else has failed to get their child's attention. When a parent plays the "Do you hear me now?", hold card of spanking, I will agree things have gotten out of hand, and has escalated to the point that the parent feels they have to take absolute control.

Escalation can happen so fast that the thought process doesn't have a chance to engage. Case in point.

My teenage, tall, well fed, nephew was staying with me, and he asked me if he could go to his friend's house. Now I knew the boy was holy mischief, and gave his mother a hard time, so I told him no. He went back out on the porch and told his friend he couldn't go to his house. I heard his friend tell him that he didn't have to listen to me, because I wasn't his mother. Being placed on the spot, and I guess feeling a bit stupid at the moment, he opened the door and said to me, "You aren't my mother".

Before I had a chance to think, I snatched the boy by his collar, and threw him across the room. He landed on the couch, in a sitting position, and a bit dazed. By the time I reached the couch, all I could see was red. My nephew shouted "Wow!" "My Auntie is Wonder Woman!" He completely stunned me, because I didn't understand what he was talking about. He jumped up and asked his friend, who was still standing in the doorway, "Man, did you see that?" My Auntie threw me all the way to the couch." "She is strong like Wonder Woman".

Smart-ass saved us both.

I am not condoning or supporting child abuse, but sometimes things don't always play out the way you would like. Situations can escalate quickly, and sometimes a parent has to take control the best way they can, in the moment. If the relationship is a good one. Damage control may be required later, but the crisis has to be averted the best way you can.

I have to say, from reading just a few of the responses here, well ok I had too strict and harsh of parents and I know they didn't want me.

My neighbor friend and drinking buddy who likes to look at this site, says the same for her too. She blames her problems with men on this even.

And wants me to put this, "before I forget", this is actually something that counters anti Semitism. In her words: "Jewish people are successful because you literally have education and work beat into you." My relatives are from eastern Europe and in conversing with this woman, very similar. She has some Czech relatives too.

Oh will you WORK! And many things are 'conditional'. I think she had it a bit more upscale than I, such as: If your grades are good this semester we might buy you that outfit at Lord & Taylor. The same for me, but in the Sears range.

And plenty of the "Old School" types apply beatings regularly. And are very strict. And you are NEVER good enough! And we were born in the 70s and grew up in the US. So did many of our relatives. And we did have pretty much "Brady Bunch" type of suburban experiences.

Except your relatives are VERY STRICT. And a great deal is expected of you. And most communication with you is itemizing your flaws, yet again. A nearly "militaristic" experience. And children are to be seen and not heard. And you will work work work. Everything is work. And you must do your best and in fact be perfect AT ALL TIMES.

No fooling around, no back talk. Unless you want a back hand across the face. No hugs, no kind words, and good luck trying to appeal one of their harsh sentences. And of course we don't want to forget the guilt trips and shame. Oh and just to remind you yet again, in case you missed it, you are never good enough. Don't forget.

There is much nit picking also. Oh, you're wearing that? And fault to be found with every little thing you do. On a constant basis. You're 40 years old, it NEVER stops! Pick pick pick. That's all they do is criticize.

And the obsessions over money, position, conformity, and how you look to others. What if SOMEONE SEES YOU in those raggedy clothes? Or with that guy? Or what will people THINK???

We were conversing about these things and my friend said: "Are you sure you're not Jewish?"

I saw an interesting comment once where someone said there's a lot of people this is common too, in the Mediterranean area. Italians, Greek, Jew, Egyptian, etc. Yes they do have their own brand of guilt trips to be sure. And this carries to the eastern European areas as well, very strict, harsh people.

My friend here says she pictures her one great grandma shooting weasels out the back 40 in some desolate area of Kazakhstan. Some of her other relatives were able to attend school (uni) in Egypt, Israel, and Europe.

I am only 2nd generation of school myself. US. My parents went. My grand parents did not have beyond US high school and in some cases only through grade school. And beyond them I know nothing. I know little about them as it is.

Our parents and grand parents were the same though. And plenty of people you meet will say the same. Here, anyway, there's a lot of middle eastern and EU immigrants here, and have been since the 1800s (Chicago, US).
I think it's some of the "Old School" ideas of child raising, that came from anywhere. The old ways.

You will WORK! They are STRICT! They will never hug you nor say ANYTHING positive about you. YOU are ALWAYS WRONG, you NEVER work hard enough, and I almost forgot! : Siblings, Cousins, co workers children, will be held up as examples of SHINING PERFECTION! to you, and while they alternately fawn over them, your innumerable faults will be gone over again.

TOO STRICT.

It's not good and the results ain't pretty either. You wind up with either a neurotic workaholic or a substance addict, drunkard. Or both. And people like us come from long lines of just such people too.

You have to re balance your head in adult hood too. Most people like us don't have kids. For various reasons, a BIG ONE being the type of families we grew up in.

They looked like Leave it to Beaver or The Brady Bunch on the surface, they were extremely dysfunctional and far too strict. You might even get to go shopping at Lord and Taylor and belong to a country club.....
Until your parents get divorced anyway.

Like all our parents (and enough grand parents) did.

This does not seem to be a happy life. It seems miserable and everyone fights and they're pissed over it all of it and even sorrier for your existence.

This is why people like us took a pass on it.

And why I can understand why some people coddle their kids too much. They're going the opposite way because they missed it. They're trying to 'right their wrongs' so to say.

a reply to: FalseMove


Very interesting and thoughtful post.

You have to re balance your head in adult hood too.

I think that's true for a lot of people though. Although different from yours, I grew up in a very poor and very dysfunctional household, which I assume is why I tend to be an anxious person to this day. Like you said, there came a point where I had to re-balance my head. I will always be an anxious person (which in a strange way does have it's advantages too) but I try to remind myself of WHY I am like that.

And why I can understand why some people coddle their kids too much. They're going the opposite way because they missed it. They're trying to 'right their wrongs' so to say.

I absolutely understand that sentiment but I would urge people (as I remind myself) that when you coddle a kid too much, in the long run you aren't doing them any favors. When a person grows up in a dysfunctional family, it's a tough road to navigate as a parent because you don't have much personal experience on the "right way" to do it. (Not saying there is only ONE right way.... but you know what I mean).

a reply to: FalseMove
Thank you for sharing such a sensitive and eye opening post.

When I was in University I brought home two of my friends that were not going home for Holiday. Coming from such a large family, my mother said two more mouths won't make a difference, and insisted that they come home with us. She said she couldn't stand the thought of them being alone for the Holidays. I thought it odd that they didn't want to go home, but said nothing about it, at the time.

When I got home, of course, everyone came out of the woodwork. It was so noisy with all the yelling, hugging, and kissing. My friends were included in the melee. They felt awkward at first, but it didn't take them long to realize that my family had adopted them. It took about three days after we had returned to school, that they finally announced how unusual my family was. They said my family was the kissingnest, huggingnest, family they had ever seen.

I was shocked and a little upset, at first. Until they told me they couldn't ever remember their mother or father kissing or hugging them. To this day, I will never forget the shock that went through my body. I couldn't believe that there were families were they didn't kiss or hug each other. We talked a long time. I had my first education that my world was unique to me, as each other person's world is unique to them.

While in so many ways we are the same, in very many ways we are different. Not better. Not worse. Just different in our sameness.

You are right that for many, their parenting style comes from the way they were parented. They may parent exactly the same way they were parented, or will modify their parenting style to make the correction in what they thought was lacking in their own. The strange thing is that success or failure in parenting may not always have to do with what a parent does right or wrong. Mainly it is the character of the child that makes the difference.

Each of us has our own moment of realization. Our epiphany. A re-balancing of our heads. In spite of, or because of our parents.

Using violence to punish a child often produces the immediately desired result of compliance.
However, it will also inevitably teach the child that physical coercion is a legitimate means by which to achieve one’s goals.
If an adult cannot think of any other means than violence in order to teach proper conduct to a child, then the adult has a greater problem than the child.

“But my parents beat me and I turned out okay.”
- If you’re using violence against someone who is not physically threatening you and cannot defend themselves, then you didn’t turn out okay.
- If you are encouraging others to use violence against someone who is not physically threatening and cannot defend themselves, then you didn’t turn out okay.
- People survive and thrive after all manner of ill-treatment. That doesn’t that mean ill-treatment is good, it just means it can be overcome.

“So you think kids should be coddled and babied, etc.?”
Coddling is not the only alternative to beating. Along with being physically bigger and stronger than kids, parents are (at least supposed to be) smarter than kids. Why not use that advantage to teach proper conduct?

WTF....serious terms and conditions? What are you...a lowlife redneck....get a GED and back away from the keyboard you laptop cum bag.
Cheers