Society is forced to be accepting of gays & transgenders.

originally posted by: stabstab
a reply to: Parafitt

Whats funny is I have a norwegian dad and I look alot like the guy in your picture lol.

As a side note:

The guy in my avatar, is also the brother of alexander skarsgard.

The guy from generation kill (brad), true blood (erik northman) and even a lady gaga music video (eugh)

Your blood line is indeed intriguing..

originally posted by: Parafitt
a reply to: 3danimator2014

This is why I like your posts so often, you have a sense about you.

We may not agree, but we can agree to compromise, or disagree, and there is no outright loss of attitude.

Not that I've interacted with you before, but I've seen your posts. Starred many.

A good thing. And I agree with you. Work is far more important than a discussion here. Though I do think the OP was just saying the same as I, in a different way. but thank you for being a reasonable participant !!

*I bet it was my threat of my Amazonian partner.. Christ she scares me too brother !!!* lmao

First off, thanks for your kind words mate.

Second, look, i'm never going to proclaim to be the most subtle of posters. I know im guilty of diving in head first sometimes without being a bit more sensitive. But I can assure you if Celine had not posted this in the Rant sub forum and had explained how she felt she was being hounded, i would not have been to direct and to the point with her.

a reply to: 3danimator2014

Oh you will find I am the same as you in that regard, subtle is not my middle name. Letting the 'warnings' slowly drop off my U2U inbox haha..

It is a rare night where I find myself composed enough to even attempt to be.

And you're welcome. As I have said, pretty much all of your posts I have been in agreement with. not a way to get off on the wrong foot I think, on a topic so hot potato, you know??

Peace, my friend..



PS: you from the UK or Aus? Mate is not usually a US word.. Personally, Aus here.

a reply to: woodwardjnr

Death by disco

originally posted by: kibric
a reply to: woodwardjnr

Death by disco

ths

I could think of worse deaths

a reply to: celinem

I think you have rather missed the point.

The point is, that a human, any human, has a right to go about their business as they see fit, without being chastised or treated differently from anyone else, unless the behaviour they indulge in is criminal under current law, thereby causing them to abandon their liberty, and be incarcerated. As long as you have the right to walk down the street unmolested and without attracting prejudice (a right you most certainly have), then so must a gay or transgendered person.

It is also worth noting that it is not your place to decide whether behaviour not prohibited by law, is acceptable in general terms. The only choice you have any right to make in the matter, is whether or not you engage in that behaviour yourself. If you treat someone differently because of the colour of their skin, or the faith they hold, or their sexuality, or their gender, or identity thereof, then you are, whether you would mean to or not, dehumanising that individual, and no one living on the face of this earth has the right to decide another individuals personhood.

No matter what choices we make in life, we are all human beings, under one sun, one moon, living on the same earth, having more similarity than we do difference, even those of us who are at most variance with one another. I believe in Jesus Christ. Others believe in Allah, some believe that there is no God, others still are undecided. Some believe that the best economic model is capitalism, some believe the same of socialism, others still believe that organisation and structure of any kind is anathema to human existence, that by our nature we are too chaotic to safely and uniformly exist within social constructs.

However, the system in the developed world, requires that all persons be considered equal before the law, and that insists that they be treated as equal by all persons living under that system. If you would support the basic human rights afforded to a heterosexual person, then you cannot discriminate against homosexual people unless you find yourself at odds with the idea that human beings are equal before the law, before man, and if that is the case, then you have a very big problem.

You see, over the many, many millennia of mankinds existence, there have been times where human beings were turned against their fellows. By usurpation of faith by propagandists, by deceit and skullduggery ending in a frame up, by royal decree and by the hands of underground groups, the methodology is irrelevant. Each time this has happened, it has lead to massacre, chaos, bloodshed and mayhem. Each time, innocent persons were caught up and slain or maimed in the carnage. And each time this has occurred on any significant scale, it has been because one group of people saw fit to dehumanise and depersonalise another, for their own gain, for greed, or out of spite and fear of the Unknown.

This is our past, as the human race, boiled down to the highlights. Every one of the darkest chapters in human history, comes back to a group or individual claiming that their way, their people, or their faith was supreme amongst all others, that their dogma was more valuable than the lives and freedoms of people who failed to subscribe. Now, there are many in this world who still believe such things openly, make no effort to hide their supremacist tendencies behind veils of propriety and reason. They are terrorists, murderers, marauders, and these are the least of them, for there are others still who run countries from a position of actual governmental legitimacy, and yet allow intolerance to guide their way through the world, both as individuals and as nations.

Suffice to say, that there are countless methods of governance and philosophy which dictate from a position of overt, unhidden oppression. But fortunately for us, we do not live under such a system as exists in North Korea, or under the arch bastards of ISIS. We live in places where freedoms and rights, and particularly the right to be recognised as human beings, are guaranteed by the founding documents of our respective nations, safeguarded by further freedoms recognised over time by those whose task it has been to oversee the clean up after atrocity after atrocity, caused by intolerance and power coming into confluence.

The more there is resistance to freedom, the further back the shadow of intolerance must be beaten. That is the legacy that we inherited from our ancestors, the lesson we must learn from their example, their victories, and their failures.

So my question to you is this. Do you value your freedoms enough, that you would insist on those same freedoms being afforded to others, whether you agree with their lifestyle or not? Put another way, have you learned something from those who came before you, or have you failed to learn the lessons that history teaches us?

a reply to: TechniXcality

I dig it. Gives you that Trek-ish look.

a reply to: celinem

Does anyone else agree that its complete and utter bull# that we are put down if we don't support all of the above? Am i the only one that feels pressured into supporting these people?

Try not to over react. Thats the whole idea you know, to get you to over react. Drama queens love to stir the pot.

When they stir it in your direction, they do it to get under your skin. Just go…


…okay, whatever, and move on.

Anytime a despised minority seeks equality, there is social tension and blowback. History repeats.

Yes, change is uncomfortable, and it is more uncomfortable for some than others. It's scary for people to see that the world they were born into, the "rules" they were taught "traditionally" are no longer hard and fast. It feels scary and wrong, but that is the nature of change.

The question is, are people who are transgendered and homosexual equal to other people, or are they lesser? As to the bathroom issue, it was blown up by the NC legislators during their ill-thought late night freak-out session to prevent Charlotte from allowing "those people" to not be discriminated against.

Here is a taste of history. Because prejudice CAN be legislated. If it's NOT, then change often does not happen. Voting rights? That is an example of people wanting to turn back the clock and make "certain people's" voice go unheard, again.
link

There are, to be sure, times when the emotional impulses of an outraged people should indeed crystallize in massive demonstrations. But such situations are very rare indeed.

And precisely the question to ask now is whether the current controversy over the Negro question is one that clearly calls for direct mobilization.

Surely one thing is clear enough at this point in American history, namely, that the Negro problem cannot be solved by even the most artful piece of legislation. This kind of "progress" projected under the proposed civil rights laws is the kind of progress which is based on the assumption that people can be brought under coercive pressure to do things they are disciplined to do.

There are those who sincerely believe progress is not fashioned out of that kind of clay. There actually are true and wise friends of the Negro race who believe that a federal law, artificially deduced from the Commerce Clause of the Constitution or from the 14th Amendment, whose marginal effect will be to instruct small merchants in the Deep South on how they may conduct their business, is no way at all of promoting the kind of understanding which is the basis of progressive and charitable relationships between the races.

Mass demonstrations, in a free society, should be reserved for situations about which there is simply no doubting the correct moral course. If it is true that the Senate and the House of Representatives cannot be trusted to write a law which is manifestly just and imperatively moral, then and only then is the pressure of the mob in order.

But mob-deployment in circumstances that call for thought and discussion and mediation is a dangerous resort. [William F. Buckley Jr., 8/19/63, via Los Angeles Times]

National Review founder William F. Buckley -- argued that the "White community" was entitled to oppose measures that sought to increase enfranchisement among southern blacks because "for the time being, it is the advanced race."

"Common passerby" here, so please accept this opinion as same...

I believe the comments that 'may' be construed as 'non-positive' stem from the fact that there weren't any examples of the 'why' or the nuts & bolts defining the "hounding". e.g. "I was watching t.v. and a group of transgenders knocked on My door and wanted Me to sign a petition, when I said "No Thanks" one of them asked Me why I wouldn't sign..."

"Instead of a 'Game of Thrones®' repeat HBO™ showed a documentary about transgenders buying new suits.." (This included a 13 y.o. trans to male. He was shopping for a Bar Mitzvah suit..)

HOW were You hounded? Is it because the transgender and their plight is more easily seen on t.v. and social media? i.e. the aforementioned show? Maybe We, the viewing public, are now getting inundated w/these shows to help with the transition to society?

I'd also opine that this is one of the reasons some Chris†ians receive 'blowback' when they mention persecution but don't go into the "WHY" they feel this way..

namaste

originally posted by: celinem
So I'm aware that I am going to receive A LOT of hate for this thread but i feel that there are others that will agree with me on this subject.

We are basically forced to be 'ok' with the idea of gay marriage, transgender people and anyone who we don't consider 'normal'.

Let me say straight up - I DON'T GIVE A # WHAT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR 'GENDER' IS!!!! I don't care if you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or whatever..

What really grinds my gears is that we are hounded if we do not support them..

Does anyone else agree that its complete and utter bull# that we are put down if we don't support all of the above? Am i the only one that feels pressured into supporting these people?

Opinions?

Hounded? Is there a specific alphabet agency you hear in your head.

Who exactly is 'we'? Is there more than one of you in there, Sybil?

originally posted by: celinem
....... & again with the hate. this is exactly my point! I have no problem with voicing my opinion so if i had a 'problem' with the LGBQT community, I'd say so. You're not seeing the point of this thread, instead you're being a smart Alec. a reply to: 3danimator2014

When you voice your opinion, you can't choose how people voice their opinion about your opinion.

Yes. Society is being forced to accept gays, the same way it needed to be forced to accept blacks. Whats the difference?

Have you ever noticed that nobody is prejudice against pretty young blonde girls?




a reply to: celinem

originally posted by: 3danimator2014

originally posted by: celinem
So I'm aware that I am going to receive A LOT of hate for this thread but i feel that there are others that will agree with me on this subject.

We are basically forced to be 'ok' with the idea of gay marriage, transgender people and anyone who we don't consider 'normal'.

Let me say straight up - I DON'T GIVE A # WHAT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR 'GENDER' IS!!!! I don't care if you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or whatever..

What really grinds my gears is that we are hounded if we do not support them..

Does anyone else agree that its complete and utter bull# that we are put down if we don't support all of the above? Am i the only one that feels pressured into supporting these people?

Opinions?

And until they have the same rights as you and I and are not shot en mass in clubs, or beaten up just for being LGBT, then the pressure will remain for everyone to support them and accept them.

I only can speak for what is the reality in germany. Gay people for decades had no problems to be gay, everybody knew, somebody maybe made some jokes(heteros are targets of jokes, too), that was it, they could their live.
Now they can marry, adopt children by law, but since a few years this minority acts as if it would be 99% of the people. They want more and more and more, more than the average people on earth?

Since that, people that didn´t care before, are becoming more and more... not exactly anti-gay, but they have enough of the whole stuff. It´s like to be forced to eat everyday the same soup you never asked for. Turn on the TV(if someone would do that), wait several minutes or switch around, you will meet gay, LGBT stuff somewhere. Open any newspapers, what will you find? Watch movies, series, even in computergames nowadays, everywhere gay people, as if they would be the majority of the people on earth.

But they are what, 3%, or4%. Than they talk the whole time about being accepted, not seperated(have they ever been, before that whole LGBT campaign started?), but then they do their own carnival(i live in cologne, and the CSD is nothing else than a gay carnival), their own footbal- or better sports tournaments, they seperate in their own bars, even in their own quarters in the city here.

Why not organizing a carnival in the summer for everyone, not only for the gays? Reality is, most straight people don´t go there, because it´s too much, even for a carnival. It´s just a sex carnival, better not to visit with childs! I came across this once, had to get to bus station, didn´t know there is CSD. But then i saw and heard that something very, very weired was going on. There were loudspeakers on the streets, not with music, but with the sounds of people, men, having sex, at 11 on a sunday morning. People ran around there with nothing more than some leatherstripes on their bodies, nearly having sex in the corners or on the open streets.

It was a relief to leave that spot, i didn´t feel good walking there, 18 years old. Not because i am afraid of gay people, but that nearly made me afraid of them a bit.

As i said, i live in cologne, it´s hard NOT to know any gays here. So i have gay friends, male and female. The girls don´t look or behave like guys, the guys don´t look or behave like girls, it´s very normal people. If you meet them for the first time, they won´t tell you in the first five minutes that they are gay, maybe they never do, why should they? Maybe one will find out, or not, who cares?

The best gay friend i have, i asked him why he became gay with 23 years, after having a daughter with a woman. He told me, because he is honest, that now he could have sex ten times a day(if he wants to), with ten different people, without paying anything. Without acting just to get a girl, without paying for sex, and having trouble, like it is with girls. You pay everytime for sex, on the one or the other way, as a straight man.

I told him that that sounds great, but i never could have sex with a man. He just said: People are different, it´s good how it is, and smiled. These gay friends don´t like the CSD, don`t go there, they don´t like those newage gays, that can´t behave like all the other, average people on the world, but want to be in focus the whole time, as a kind of "freak". They can´t stand that LGBT campaign, because now they have more problems with being gay than before that whole stuff. They just want to be AVERAGE people.

Look which gays they show, mass media, when they show the next CSD or whatever LGBT stuff in the news. They show the "freaks" only, the enigmatic drag queens, guys that wear clothes like girls and behave like girls, and the other way around, with those bullie lesbians. They never show those average gay people, even if the most of them are average people.

You can´t become average if you are forced to be in the focus, even if you never asked for it!

I don't see anyone, anywhere FORCING anyone to support gay culture.

I do see however everyone being asked to ACCEPT them for who they are. And really, why not? If you aren't gay and don't want anything to do with them...how in the hell does this effect you? All they are asking for is not to be riled against for how they orient sexually. Which they have been for hundreds, if not thousands of years.

To me this is no different than me being asked to accept religious freedoms of others. Because that is something that doesn't jive with my values. Much love Ike how homosexuality clearly doesn't jive with your values.

I think any and all religions are stupid and dangerous, yet I just ignore them and let them do as they please, because legally, that's all I can do. And to be honest, so long as the majority of them promote basic values I consider to be valuable to society (love and respect)...then so be it, let them be.

And what do you know...the gay community basically espouses the same values of love and respect. So be it, and let them be.

I do not understand homosexuality, but I don't understand religious beliefs either. Either way, in a free society, so long as their rights don't trample the rights of others...this group is free to do as they please.

So suck it up princess. And let it be.

originally posted by: celinem
So I'm aware that I am going to receive A LOT of hate for this thread but i feel that there are others that will agree with me on this subject.

We are basically forced to be 'ok' with the idea of gay marriage, transgender people and anyone who we don't consider 'normal'.

oops here we go. So already they are not normal which means abnormal then doesn't it.

Let me say straight up - I DON'T GIVE A # WHAT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR 'GENDER' IS!!!! I don't care if you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or whatever..

This thread indicates that you clearly do. So hypocriscy is now appearing.

What really grinds my gears is that we are hounded if we do not support them..

Does anyone else agree that its complete and utter bull# that we are put down if we don't support all of the above? Am i the only one that feels pressured into supporting these people?

OK your definition of "support" is what exactly. Marching on a parade ? Only if you want to. I would question who is hounding you. Society certainly isn't. If by "support" you really mean acceptance then yes you should accept them. They are normal human beings with a different sexual orientation to the biblical accepted variety.

I feel absolutely no pressure whatsover, no pro marches, no pro speeches, no pro tweets just no negative ones either and not treating people different for being different from me. I do know some people, however, who get very agitated about this topic for no reason other than it offends their "thoughts"........sad people, although I suspect some are closet gays and hate the thought that they are.

My oldest step son in openly gay man. Came out on his 18th birthday. He's a gay as the day is long...lives the lifestyle of "I'm here and I'm queer!!!!. His opinion of transgenders is not what you would think. In his opinion their "fruitcakes" now this is from an out in the open gay man. IMHO I could give a shat what your sexual orientation is. But I do feel we're being force feed the trans gender issue. I'm in N.C. folks....bathrooms in my state are becoming a fighting ground. Unreal stupid shat.

I do understand the irritation some people are feeling about feeling pressured.

I have people around me that are very passionate about the issue, and that are using the false dillema tactic to put pressure upon others to become activists. The "if you are not with us, you are against us" type of BS.

This tactic puts pressure on people, and polarizes communities. Changes which could come about in more peaceful and progressive ways are pushed into a violent traumatizing clash instead.

People who never had a problem with gays and transgenders can be pushed to a negative attitude about them through this effect. Der Beobacher made a good point about the way the gay community chooses to separate itself from the rest of the community, then complains about not feeling integrated. I don't care too much on that note, but I know that is my husbands problem with them- they form their own cruise trips, their own businesses, their own clubs, events.... then say, hey we want to feel integrated into the whole just like everyone else!
It's a total contradiction, and people get sick of being told they are to blame for this distinction happening, when that isn't true! It starts to become true though, as people get more and more fed up with being painted as evil unfairly!

My husband is getting negative towards the whole issue, and yet, when we met, our best friends for many years were a couple of gay men, and he has friends who are gay now.... but they too, share the same attitude. They just live their lives and somehow, everyone around them is fine with it.

The people I know who are using these techniques are all in the US. And to be fair, it doesn't seem to be just this issue - it seems to be a thing going on with all kinds of issues. It's like everyone is seeking to stir up a big conflict, so that they can champion some sort of stand and be a hero fighting evil in their heads.
Being moderate is boring I guess.

originally posted by: celinem
So I'm aware that I am going to receive A LOT of hate for this thread but i feel that there are others that will agree with me on this subject.

We are basically forced to be 'ok' with the idea of gay marriage, transgender people and anyone who we don't consider 'normal'.

Let me say straight up - I DON'T GIVE A # WHAT YOUR SEXUAL ORIENTATION OR 'GENDER' IS!!!! I don't care if you're heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, asexual or whatever..

What really grinds my gears is that we are hounded if we do not support them..

Does anyone else agree that its complete and utter bull# that we are put down if we don't support all of the above? Am i the only one that feels pressured into supporting these people?

Opinions?

My "Opinion"

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You CHOOSE to listen to the stories about gays. You CHOOSE to read the articles about them. You CHOOSE to start a thread about them. ALL OF IT IS YOU.

If you don't like them, nobody is forcing you to do so. It's only your fragile, politically correct "ego" that stands to suffer.

originally posted by: celinem
We are basically forced to be 'ok' with the idea of gay marriage, transgender people and anyone who we don't consider 'normal'.

I'm never clear on how people are "forced" to feel a way that they don't feel... How are people forcing you? I mean, what do they do to force you?

People disagree. That doesn't mean they're "forcing" anything on you. If you don't think gay marriage, transgender people, etc. are "ok" that's your business and your right to feel the way you feel.

But it's also the right of other people to feel the way THEY feel. I'm sure you've seen some posts that disagree with YOUR thoughts and opinions. Here's what I've observed...

You express your opinions about other people and they say you are a "hater". Others express their opinions about you, and you say they are "haters"... There's really no difference. Just as you are "forced" to accept gay people, everyone else is "forced" to accept you. This isn't a one-way thing.

Bottom line, we are NEVER forced to feel anything. You are free as a bird to feel how you feel and even express it. But if you expect that people will sit back and ACCEPT the way you feel as "ok", you're going to be disappointed.