DisneyWorld ALERTED FBI About Mateen

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: Glinda

In any other event, you can't arrest someone for something illegal that they've done until they've actually done it. It's a little issue with pre crime. When you start arresting people because they might shoot someone in the future you go down a very slippery slope.

Did you just support giving the military the ability to arbitrarily threat assess American citizens, and then kill them, including on American soil if they're deemed to be a risk?

But, what they could have and should have done is put him on a FBI watch list and KEEP him there, preventing him from purchasing weapons. I am just hearing this on the news:

My transcript:

"Omar Mateen was turned away from a Florida gun store after raising suspicion when he asked about body armor and bulk ammunition. ABC news reporting the store owner warned authorities 3 weeks before the attack on the night club and reports Mateen's wife was with him when he bought ammo." Harris Faulkner, Outnumbered on FXNWS 6/16/16

If the FBI is waiting for a crime to occur before they do anything then we're all screwed. They sorely lack critical thinking. The gun store employee had enough sense to and discretion to not sell to Mateen and alert the authorities. Disney World warned authorities.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
But, what they could have and should have done is put him on a FBI watch list and KEEP him there, preventing him from purchasing weapons. I am just hearing this on the news:

Would that have stopped him from obtaining one illegally though? Or at a gun show where he could skip the check?

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: StoutBroux
But, what they could have and should have done is put him on a FBI watch list and KEEP him there, preventing him from purchasing weapons. I am just hearing this on the news:

Would that have stopped him from obtaining one illegally though? Or at a gun show where he could skip the check?

With that argument, there's no stopping anyone for any reason. Trying to purchase one illegally presents it's own problems but or course it was possible. But it also might have added more time, time to knock the authorities in the head and get their attention. It's also a crime and might have been the key to unlocking the door of protection he seemed to have.

Now looking back via having more and more of the information about this guy exposed, it's about the only thing that would have stopped him. How the FBI missed or dissed AAAALLLLLLLL the reports of his bad behavior is unbelievable. But, purchasing an illegal gun might have gotten him caught. Maybe not. I'm not advocating we could have stopped it. But we could have made it a heck of a lot more difficult. The other problem is exposing the weakness of our protocols. They obviously don't stop #. Good to know, for the terrorists waiting for their virgins to call them home. We've basically told the world, as long as you haven't committed a crime, it's a carte blanche for any legal behavior. Yes, I realize how that sounds. Someone help me out here because I'm obviously screwing my message up. Or, maybe I'm not. I don't have the answers but I can sure see the failures.

Hehe disney security aint no joke.. couple guys I went to highschool with got in, and its a good gig from what they say... its also an organization that could handle just about anything.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

How did this guy get enough money to buy a house and a gun like he supposedly used (around 3k) when he was only what, 22?

He was 29. A lot of people have much more than $3,000 in credit card debt.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
With that argument, there's no stopping anyone for any reason. Trying to purchase one illegally presents it's own problems but or course it was possible. But it also might have added more time, time to knock the authorities in the head and get their attention. It's also a crime and might have been the key to unlocking the door of protection he seemed to have.

Delays help but they don't solve the problem. Despite my earlier post, I'm actually all for running would be murderers to the black market to get their weapons. Assuming it's a lone wolf attack there's no legal way to stop them before they take action. If you force them to use illegal means to prepare for their attack like fake ID's, money laundering, and black market guns, you have actual crimes you can arrest a person on and maybe stop the attack.

Just reading about the FL gun shop that also alerted the FBI about Mateen's odd request for mass quantities of ammo as well as body armor. As I'm keeping count, alert number FOUR and he still was walking the streets and able to find a gun shop that would sell to him.

Along the way, I'm also learning of an Obama Administration program "Countering Violent Extremism" where ONLY designated "community members" can alert the FBI on "extremism." This is to NOT profile or target any "community" and allow them to self protect in that THEY will know what to deem extremism. It's both laughable and Orwellian. I want to find trusted sources for links, but just what I'm finding on blogs is bizarre. CVE basically NEGATES "if you see something, say something." Instead it should be if you see something, say something to us and we'll label you the appropriate "phobe."

Shameful. 49 dead and 50 maimed. And Mateen was alerted on (as of today's news) FOUR TIMES!

originally posted by: Glinda
Just reading about the FL gun shop that also alerted the FBI about Mateen's odd request for mass quantities of ammo as well as body armor. As I'm keeping count, alert number FOUR and he still was walking the streets and able to find a gun shop that would sell to him.

Of course he was walking on the streets. Being on an FBI watchlist, or being alerted on isn't illegal. Can you name one thing to arrest him on at that point? For that matter, can you name something to arrest him on that would keep him off the streets forever?

Like it or not, he was an American citizen and under the Constitution is entitled to due process. Part of due process involves not being arrested until there's an actual criminal charge with some evidence.

originally posted by: onequestion
They were probably told to stand down by the State department because they don't want to offend Muslims.

Or they didn't want to screw up Obama's plan to allow the crime so he could again push for more gun laws while he should be consoling the families of the murdered.

So...the FBI ignored lots of red flags about this tragedy. Also mentioned in this thread is the fact that Russia providing information about the Baltimore bombing was ignored. Have you noticed how lots of things get ignored? The Benghazi requests for additional security, the Muslims learning how to fly but not land, the Sandy Hook kid with all the problems.

Maybe...just maybe...there is "someone" telling their departments to intentionally ignore such things. But that would only make sense if they had an agenda they wanted to push (gun control) and held a pretty high position (president).

So...I guess I'm completely off base.