Atheist Join Me Please, I need some questions answered.

a reply to: namelesss

I read your reply to ServantOfTheLamb with interest and agreement. I think you left out one thing that is divinely human though and that is that inner contentment with one's lot.

I am not thinking about smugness or superiority in any way - nothing could be further away from my understanding of contentment. Its an inner quality you slowly acquire, despite your mistakes and all the sh-t life throws at you.

ServantOfTheLamb

Sadly, I don't know. Maybe. If I had a better answer then I would gladly provide it.

Mayhaps this could provide some enlightenment:



Consider this. Maybe it will help. Maybe not. I hope you find whatever it is you are looking for.

Hail Eris (or don't)

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

1Q: Is matter and energy all that exists?

1A: It is not significant. You cannot think beyond yourself as a conscious being, so why seek beyond the world in which you think? When you leave this world, if there is something to be found, you will find it. If not, then you will be dead, and you wont care regardless. Would more bring you purpose and fulfillment? Everything may consist of focus and perspective (matter and energy), but what is their seat? What brought them into balance with each other to bring forth everything? What is, or was the seed?

The simplest and most correct 'logical' answer, is; "There is always something more." Who is God to your God? And what manner of creation, brought about a creator?

2Q: What is the nature of God.

2A: Our very conception of 'God' is ungodly. It is a concept of man, which reduces the insurmountable and unknown down to something we can accept. To take away the questions without ever giving answers. This is not to say that there is not something out there which loves you, as is promised within most religions. It is only to say that seeking to know the nature of God, prevails the very concepts of the question.

The best answer I can give you to this question is; "All it can be. For better or worse. Looking for better. Loving all you can, and hoping to be loved, or learn to love yourself."

3Q: Do objective morals and values exist?

3A: Everyone has the natural born ability to discern the difference between what they 'like', and what is 'right'. And to evaluate what might motivate them to ever 'over-ride' this understanding.

Do not hate, what you do not love.
Don't look down, like you're far above.
Do not pain, when no pains brought to cause.
Do not take, things which are not yours.
Don't spit your words, if they are distaste.
Don't judge on things, which aren't your place.
Do not steal the joy, from anothers hand.
Do not break the things, which can't be mend.
If it feels like it's wrong, then it probably is.
Love as much as you can, and always try to give.
It is a simple thing, to listen of your heart.
Than of mind, which may be set apart.
Broken be mended, and darkened be clean.
God is the better you, yet to be seen.

4Q: Do the existence of moral values imply the existence of a God?

4A: Morality is subjective. No more Godly than the systems of law that Govern us. What is moral is not necessarily right, and therefore could not be said to be divine. Ethics serve divinity far greater than any moral structure, as it allows for growth through new and greater understanding.

5Q: Is the God of Abraham the one true God?

5A: Abrahams name is translated as 'Father of many' not because he had a lot of children, but because he is the external masculine personified as 'the Father', just like the many before him.

"The Father that many have known". The resurrected aspect of various times and people, which varies little in what it (is supposed to) present you with.

The Vikings called him 'All-Father'.

So if you look at it in that respect, with all the 'Fathers' essentially being the same thing, then he could be considered the 'one true God', at least in masculine aspect.

But without the inner feminine reflection of that masculine 'Father' God, he/it/we could not exist. Meaning that the feminine aspect of 'God', would present a argument to there being at least 'two' true Gods. Or there could not be 'one'.

Unless of course that 'one true God' is speaking as them being half of a whole, in which case, they could be the one 'true God'.

But no. I don't think they are the one 'true' God. There are many, many, many of us out there. This world is full of them. Everywhere you go, everywhere you look.

They are everything you know. Literally.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

What I'd like to discuss are the reasons you believe your position. I would like you to give me reasons to believe what you believe. Now pay close attention to what I am asking from the respondents, I am asking for your reasons for your beliefs.

The bible has repeatedly been proven inaccurate historically and scientifically.
It has been shown that the biblical Abraham likely never existed, and the biblical Exodus likely never happened, let alone Noah's Ark. Even if one could show some historical evidence, the stories are so perverted, there's no way to get to the core of the myths at this point.
It has been shown repeatedly the bible does not even agree with itself in many, many places.
It has also been shown repeatedly that the Hebrews and Christianity developed much of their faith by borrowing from other cultures, and adding their own spin.
The biblical version of Jesus never existed. We have no idea who wrote the "gospels", they came down to us unsigned. What we do know is that Mark is probably the oldest, and the others borrowed heavily from him adding in their own mythology.
Several books of the bible are pseudipigrapha, including several of Paul's epistles.
Also, Jesus is similar enough to several "saviors" before him, it is safe to say, he's not by any means original. And the Devil did it doesn't work as a reason.
Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are anti-social and anti-human, and well as exclusivist and bigoted, not to mention misogynistic.
The God of the Abrahamic faiths does not exist, and from my perspective, the writings we have about him prove he does not exist. He's all too human, and all too fallible. He is a concept, not an entity.
I can not answer whether there is a creator, or a source of all. I can only say there is no religion on earth that holds the copyright or the patent to said creator. The abundance of varied writings from every culture evidence that.

These are just a few of the reasons I don't believe in the God of any earthly religion. The list could be near endless, but you know as well as I, all of these things can be looked up on the internet, and in a real library. No thread can be exhaustive in listing all the evidence against the many religions out there, let alone just the Abrahamic ones. Believe what you will, but the likelihood of Christianity being true is slim to none, and the evidence against it keeps piling up. Only by throwing logic and reason out the window, and believing in a nemesis called the Devil or Satan, can anyone eschew the evidence, and justify Christianity.

a reply to: mOjOm

Or maybe you haven't taken time to properly understand the verse? If you take a surface reading of it english I can see how you would come to that conclusion. I do not think "evil" in that passage is referring to moral evil but rather disasters. What is moral Evil? Evil is the perversion of that which is good. You seem to be cherry picking the Bible to attempt to show me that my God cannot be the God of the moral argument. But that is irrelevant of the topic of atheism. The 1A-4A stand completely alone from Christianity and I would agree with your idea that If the Biblical God is Evil then he cannot be the one true God. I've read all these verses before your not giving me something I have thought of I have simply came to a different conclusion than you. You seem to be completely ignoring the rest of Scripture which needs to be taken into account when translating any verse.Yes there is a verse that says God created all thing visible and invisible and it is contrasting the physical with the spiritual it in no way implies that God has committed evil actions . God is never the author of evil which is what your trying to elude to with these verses. In Genesis 1 God creates all things and declares them exceedingly good. You don't seem to understand that Evil is simply a by product of creating truly free creatures. As I mentioned upon creation God calls everything good. Evil first shows up when a free conscious agent comes on the scene. I can see how you think the way you do with these surface readings of scripture but I have simply found that looking into these matters more gives a more coherent reading of scripture and quite often makes more sense in the context of the passage. For example moral evil is not antonym for peace where as calamity is . Thats my position on these scriptures.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I would like you to give me reasons to believe what you believe. Now pay close attention to what I am asking from the respondents, I am asking for your reasons for your beliefs. I am NOT asking you to reject my reason I am asking you to provide reasons of your own.

Well, it's complicated...

While I realize that with 6 whole days he did make some pretty cool stuff - I figure a real god coulda done more in less time - and wouldn't need a day off. Probably

I know that sounds snotty - but it's the very first thing I thought when I was a little kid

I'm cool with the reality of the natural universe unfolding however it unfolded. Magic enough - without magic

I guess it's not that complicated after all

:-)

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

As I mentioned upon creation God calls everything good.

Until he didn't. Eh?

Genesis 2:18
The LORD God said, "It is not good ............I

He just couldn't leave "well enough" alone! That's when "God" fractured Adam.....just after he created sin.

Genesis 2:17
...but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
18 Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him."

Tsk Tsk! Poor Adam never had a chance!

originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: windword

You dont believe there is such a thing as truth so why should I think what your saying holds any value....

Just because I don't believe in a thing you claim to be "objective truth", that doesn't mean that I can't spot a liar. And, this is a lie:

God would need to exists in the form that can derived from the ontological argument mainly that God would by nature be morally perfect as that very nature is the external referent for morality.

Why is this a lie? Because we don't observe moral perfection reflected anywhere in the universe, and certainly not anywhere here on Earth. And, certainly we see no moral perfection in the biblical god.

The formation of the word 'God', when correlated against its symbolic propagation, etymology and comparison to other ancient cultures and definitions means: "All that you are" or "All that you know".

It refers to YOU and the world you exist within.

That is the culmination of what 'God' is.

That simple.

The gatekeepers who promise 'God', are not 'God'. You already have your 'God' given to you, and are experiencing it through the form of self.

To put it very simply,

"This world is a type of 'experiment', that has been adapted and elaborated into something more than was originally intended, for its construct.

Though it can be said that we are 'loved' by our keepers, it is no more than a scientist might love the rats in their lab.

Or the farmer may love the pig they feed and provide a good life to ... until its slaughtered to serve its purpose.

Until we are 'harvested' for our intended purposes.

"Love" like all other things is relative. And to those who see a 'purpose' for what we are beyond what we ourselves can see, that love can be VERY subjective.

We are a experiment. That simple.

And if we get out of hand, or become a threat in any way, we will be destroyed. And the next cycle will begin fresh.

The new 'batch' to continue the work.

We are getting damn close to it now.

It's happened here at least 3 times that I know of. That we 're-cultivated' society on this Earth after a reset.

I'm starting to look forward to it actually. Because the disease infecting this world, thinks it is the cure.

The Children, think they are the adults. And persecute the true 'owners' of this world.

Reset! Reset it all! I say ..."

a reply to: EnkiEa

Okay but why should I believe what your saying? I get this is your opinion where are the reasons?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Why is there something rather than nothing?

a reply to: windword

Just because I don't believe in a thing you claim to be "objective truth", that doesn't mean that I can't spot a liar. And, this is a lie:

I didn't say you don't believe in something I claim to be true. I said you don't believe in truth period...how can you spot a lie if there is no truth?

Why is this a lie? Because we don't observe moral perfection reflected anywhere in the universe, and certainly not anywhere here on Earth. And, certainly we see no moral perfection in the biblical god.

I don't even know where to begin with this.. it is a non sequitur ... you wouldn't need to observe moral perfection only the existence of such a thing as good and such a thing as evil.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Why is there something rather than nothing?

Why wouldn't there be something?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Truth is subjective. There is no such thing as "objective truth". What is true for you may not be true for me. Therefore, beware of someone claiming to "know" the truth, because there really is no such thing as "The Truth". There is only an honest interpretation being conveyed, or a dishonest interpretation. I take your claim to "truth" to be illogical at best, dishonest at worst.

originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: namelesss

I read your reply to ServantOfTheLamb with interest and agreement. I think you left out one thing that is divinely human though and that is that inner contentment with one's lot.

I am not thinking about smugness or superiority in any way - nothing could be further away from my understanding of contentment. Its an inner quality you slowly acquire, despite your mistakes and all the sh-t life throws at you.

As far as I can see, 'contentment' is a passing, 'conditional' 'feeling/thought'.
'Faith' can give that appearance, and the unconditional Love of which Faith is an unconditional Virtue!
Faith is Knowledge!
It looks like 'contentment' to know that all is exactly perfect, exactly as things are!
To not 'judge' reality, but to Love it, 'appears' as contentment, and, in a way, it is, Loving things/people just as We are!
But without the Love, it becomes 'conditional', passing.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Well obviously there is something but i suppose because there could be nothing?

a reply to: windword

Truth is subjective.

Okay so the statement "truth is subjective" is true for you, and the statement "truth is objective" is true for me. Oh but wait if your statement is true then that means my statement is true which means your statement is false. If I can give you an objective truth will you concede?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

...but i suppose because there could be nothing?

Supposing is art ServantOfTheLamb

:-)

And no matter what - I do love art

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Do you think there had to be something?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

If I can give you an objective truth will you concede?

Maybe. Have at it! But, I must warn you that we may disagree on your example actually BEING an objective example.