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Atheist Join Me Please, I need some questions answered.

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posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 12:12 AM
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a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat

Lol thank god for urban dictionary. Maybe I am. But what is more fun has nothing to do with what is true.




posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 12:14 AM
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ServantOfTheLamb

What truth claim is that then? I never said Discordianism was true. In fact, if you had bothered to read the link I graciously provided you would have known that.

Furthermore, I don't believe there is such a thing as Absolute Truth.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 12:14 AM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb

I have the knowledge of murder that doesn't make me a murderer? There is a difference between having knowledge of something evil and being something evil....


Yeah, but that's what I'm asking.

How would know the feeling of committing an evil act???

Also, to be the objective source of Morality, don't you think it would require knowing evil intimately and personally to truly be the source of what is and isn't moral???

As the source of everything and to be all knowing you'd have to know evil personally. Unless of course there is no such thing as evil.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 12:16 AM
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ServantOfTheLamb

Perhaps that is true. Perhaps not. Perhaps nothing is true? Perhaps all things are true. Perhaps all things and nothing is true? Perhaps some things are true and others are not.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 12:21 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

It says here that God knows Evil.

Genesis 3:22:

And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm

well first I agreed with you that God had knowledge of evil. What I don't agree with is that you need to preform evil in order understand it and its opposite. You're equating knowledge with action and I see no reason to in fact the law of identity and noncontradiction give logical reason to reject that idea. Knowledge is knowledge action is action. I don't follow why you believe that knowing evil means you are evil. By what rule of logical inference does that follow?
edit on 15-6-2016 by ServantOfTheLamb because: typo



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 12:35 AM
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a reply to: CagliostroTheGreat




Furthermore, I don't believe there is such a thing as Absolute Truth.


I suppose my question would be is it absolutely true that there is no such thing as absolute truth?



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:00 AM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: schuyler




I think you're a bit confused. You also seem to be setting yourself up as some sort of judge of the quality of others' responses. I really don't think you have the stature to do that.


How am I supposed to make an informed decision without analyzing what a person says? Do you expect me to just say oh that is what you believe sure I'll believe it too? Obviously if we hold contradictory views i am going to have to "judge" what your saying....


I don't think you are really waiting with bated breath for answers that would enlighten you. I suspect you have already decided what is "truth" and that your issues are simply baiting your "atheists' so that you can criticize their answers. You are not in any way neutral waiting for answers. You have already decided that Jesus is your savior and all the BS that goes with those beliefs.

The bottom line is this: It's all BS. None of it is remotely true. No one is compelled to "defend" this point of view. It's up to you to prove your fantasies.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:16 AM
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a reply to: schuyler




on't think you are really waiting with bated breath for answers that would enlighten you. I suspect you have already decided what is "truth" and that your issues are simply baiting your "atheists' so that you can criticize their answers. You are not in any way neutral waiting for answers. You have already decided that Jesus is your savior and all the BS that goes with those beliefs. The bottom line is this: It's all BS. None of it is remotely true. No one is compelled to "defend" this point of view. It's up to you to prove your fantasies


Well I think its quite obvious I believe those things to be true and I have told you why. That doesn't mean I am not willing to hear other people out....Could it be precisely 90% of this thread has ignored my request because they have no reasons for their beliefs ?



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:22 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I didn't say what I believe at all. I'm asking you a question.

It's said that god is all things both visible and invisible. If evil is real then it must also be in him and from him.

It's also said that he knows all. Knows my thoughts and why I think them just as I do. At the same time it says that thinking a sin is the same as committing that very sin. But if that's true then that would mean that God Sins as We do by our very thoughts alone would it not???



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:24 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I hope you would consider answering my question even though it is off topic......

Where did you study theology?

Answer #1 - Self taught?

Answer #2 - University

Answer #3 - Seminary

And last one - Bible study at church?



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:34 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

God is dead.

No one cares.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:39 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb


Isaiah 45:7King James Version (KJV)

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Maybe he's not all good after all.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:49 AM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

God is dead.

No one cares.

ts gotta be true , right ? It was the cover story for the New York Times once upon a long time ago.And echoed in a song by Elton John.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:50 AM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
a reply to: SaturnFX




belief (strong) requires a sort of rejection of any new perspectives, and that is the death of learning.


I have a strong belief that 2+2=4

That is not a belief, that is a understanding. the definition should clear out the differences should you care to compare the two (belief and understanding)



See I feel atheist have the misconception that because theist believe in a God that means that they have some type of static belief. That is not the case.

The static belief is the core of theism..the (gnostic) belief in a deity..without any strong evidence
That is about as static as it comes..everything must fold into that claim, else be rejected.


The public has this misconception that Science and Religion are at odds and this has been added to by the media.

Science and religion is mutually exclusve
science and spirituality in general are not.
religion has specific static statements..jonas lived in a whale, the earth came about 8k years ago, etc. ants can talk, snakes used to talk, etc. hard claims can be challenged and refuted. religion makes hard claims, religion fails repeatedly to back the claims up.


Does information have energy? Is information physical?

Storing information requires a physical platform. information in a void is nothing. it needs something. a hard drive, a brain, dna, etc...no matter, no storage, no information.
your question literally means nothing...you keep equating 2 completely different things as if they can somehow be related.


I would say it is definitely a thing,

you would be wrong.


but I don't think you could defend the idea that information has energy nor do I think you could defend the idea the information doesn't exists as it would be hard to explain how we are having conversation at the moment.

Information requires a medium to exist..we are the medium, the computer is another medium. remove us, remove the computers, remove matter, put in place a void, and voila..no information.
its a concept, we are the concept creators, relaying and manipulating each others brains with information. no brain to manipulate, no information.



Nor do I think you could show that information is physical. If you have reasons for believing those things I would love to hear them.

I accept your apology



I feel like you said sure but your answer seems to be no. I'll need some clarification.


Your question is, do moral values and duties exist. in any species, you could translate this as dos and donts. most species, and all mammals, dont insta murder each other, so that could be considered a moral and/or duty. this isn't a deity inspired thing, I imagine there very well could have been species that did murder each other on sight..and they aren't around anymore, because that is bad for sustainability of the species.
obviously the fact that we continue to exist means we have certain "morals" innate to life..aka, dont murder every other human, dont do things that will get you murdered by others..doesn't always follow, but overall thats the basic understandings of life.
dont need a deity for that.
everything after that is society based. aka, loving deities, what age of the right age of consent, who to love, enslavement considerations, etc. thats society enlightenment, not deities that decide on that..and those arent objective..thats subjective to society


Meaning if the situation is one person think it is good to rape and the other person thinks it is bad to rape then one person is mistaking.

Bad example. rape is subjectively bad. most animals rape other animals. thats how babies are made and the species continues.
objectively immoral deals with continuation of the species..and I wouldn't really call it morality..more like..species positive behavior. not really good/bad in any evil or holy sense.


These are claims about the way the world actually is. They are truth claims. If your going to say no I am going to need you to give me some reason to believe that my moral experiences in reality are delusions.

not delusions, your subjective interpretation based on some loose principles mixed with society enlightenment, norms, and law.

Your religion tells you to murder witches.
there are self proclaimed witches all over the place.
morally, you need to go murder witches...you haven't, because that morality doesn't jive with modern society.

your religion says morally you need to murder someone who: commits adultry, works on the sabbath, etc (a million other reasons). you dont, because again, subjective morals fails when met with enlightened principles, law, society norms, etc.

religion has no objective morality..it has subjective moral calls that are dismissed as society evolves.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 01:54 AM
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a reply to: Gothmog



Jesus lived his life in a cheap hotel

on the edge of Route 66

He lived a dark and twisted life

and he came right back just to do it

again



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 02:07 AM
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a reply to: DeathSlayer

Yours will be the last question tonight because its quick everyone else i'll respond at some point tomorrow. I am pretty much all self taught. Went to church earlier in my life but honestly I haven't been to a church more than 5 times in the last 6 years.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 03:21 AM
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originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

God is dead.

No one cares.

If there is a hell

I'll see you there




posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 03:28 AM
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a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb




If there is an infinite number of past events how do you get to the event in which I am typing these words. You couldn't.

If infinite number of events in an eternally existing universe are a thing, eventually your post will happen.

You completely contradicted yourself in a single statement.

So I guess, in the infinite universe a god could exist somewhere as well, and maybe he would be the creator of us, but not the universe.

The universe is god. Ever look at a theoretical picture of it? Looks amazingly like a neurological picture of a brain in action.

You think, therefore the universe exists.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 04:10 AM
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originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
So quite often I am on here providing reasons to believe in God. A quick run down of my philosophical position is as follows:

1Q: Is matter and energy all that exists?

1A: Teleological Argument/Cosmological Argument/Argument from Semiotics of Dna == No matter and energy are not all that exists

2Q: What is the nature of God?

2A: Ontological Argument by Alvina Plantinga == God is an all powerful, all good, all knowing, and necessary being.

3Q: Do objective moral values and duties exists?

3A: Yes. I clearly apprehend objective moral values and have no good reason to deny what I clearly perceive. IE Torturing sentient beings for fun is objective wrong.

4Q: Do the existence of moral values imply the existence of a God?

4A: Morality Argument paired with the understanding of the nature of God brought by the 2A

5Q: Is the God of Abraham the one true God?

5A: Minimal facts argument for the resurrection of christ.

Now here is a logical system of how I came to my belief in christ along with experiences with him that makes it a properly basic belief.


Now as tempting as it may be for all the atheist or agnostics out there to attack my position THIS IS NOT the purpose of the thread and any such comment should be considered off topic. Rather the purpose of the questions and answers is to show that I have reasons for my beliefs whether you think they are convincing or is not what i want to discuss. What I'd like to discuss are the reasons you believe your position. I would like you to give me reasons to believe what you believe. Now pay close attention to what I am asking from the respondents, I am asking for your reasons for your beliefs. I am NOT asking you to reject my reason I am asking you to provide reasons of your own.

If you need all that vain pseudo-intellectual reasoning to validate your 'beliefs' (imagination), it is because you have no Faith!
'Faith' is Knowledge!
If you had an itch, you'd Know it because you EXPERIENCE it!
That is Faith!
If someone doubted your itch, in your Knowledge, you'd laugh at his silliness, and move on!
But you cannot do that with your imaginary 'beliefs', because a 'belief' is not Knowledge of God, but Knowledge of your imaginary concept of a 'god' that cannot be imagined!
So you need this foolishness to validate your beliefs.
Three common symptoms of a belief infection is constant defense, validation/feeding and spreading (propagating)!
Beliefs are spread and caught, like any infection!
Your 'logic' is completely subservient to your constant need to 'defend' and 'validate/feed'...

And I am not an 'atheist', yet I have no 'beliefs'.
Yet, all belief-addled, YOU are the atheist, you are infected with vain 'beliefs', but no Knowledge of God!
An empty hole that will never be filled!




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