U.S. Gives Sweeping Guidance to Schools on Transgender Students

a reply to: Debunkology

The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

Bubble meet needle.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Annee

It certainly is, political changes notwithstanding.

Typical, though, to label your opposition. Have fun with that. Not playing tonight.

Transgender is NOT a mental illness.

No matter how many times you say it.

To continue with incorrect and uneducated opinions only reflects back on you.

Ride that carousel all day long if you wish. I will spend my time debating with those that offer actual data, as opposed to personal opinion. In other words, I am not discussing this with you.

originally posted by: Debunkology

originally posted by: Annee
It is NOT a mental disorder.

But, I'm beginning to think those who refuse to accept what Professionals say that specialize in transgender care, do have a mental disorder.

The guy who has studied this phenomenon for DECADES says it is

cnsnews.com...

Who does "the guy" work for again?

What are his credentials?

What is his agenda?

Since when do we as a society depend on what one person thinks to inform public policy?

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, it's a fact, not my opinion, that suicide rates for such people are very high. That isn't because of how anyone treats them, but because of the underlying mental problems that caused them to do what they did in the first place. There is only one reality. Those that cannot accept it are people with a problem. Claiming they don't have one doesn't help anyone. Yes, that's cruel. Nor are they at peace after surgeries.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Annee

It certainly is, political changes notwithstanding.

Typical, though, to label your opposition. Have fun with that. Not playing tonight.

Transgender is NOT a mental illness.

No matter how many times you say it.

To continue with incorrect and uneducated opinions only reflects back on you.

Ride that carousel all day long if you wish. I will spend my time debating with those that offer actual data, as opposed to personal opinion. In other words, I am not discussing this with you.

Okay, debate it with me then.

Or Kayla, or anyone.

You're not OFFERING ANY ACTUAL DATA ... you're offering your own opinion and the opinions of zealots.

In short you are not telling the truth when you make these claims. You are not talking about accepted medical science, or even fringe science ... you're talking about religious dogma masquerading as science.

Science - medicine, psychiatry, psychology, sociology, etc. have ALL spoken clearly on these issues.

originally posted by: LadyGreenEyes
a reply to: Gryphon66

No, it's a fact, not my opinion, that suicide rates for such people are very high. That isn't because of how anyone treats them, but because of the underlying mental problems that caused them to do what they did in the first place. There is only one reality. Those that cannot accept it are people with a problem. Claiming they don't have one doesn't help anyone. Yes, that's cruel. Nor are they at peace after surgeries.

Yes, suicide rates are higher THAN THE SOCIETAL AVERAGE.

That's the only fact you have.

Everything else is blatantly untrue and is, precisely, your opinion.

Address the fact that every reputable medical association DISAGREES with your opinion. You know more than hundreds of thousands of medical and psychiatric professionals?

Explain why.

There are many groups with higher than societal average rates of suicide:

Men are 3.5 times more likely to commit suicide than women. Are all men therefore mentally ill?

White Men account for 70% of all suicides. Are all White Men therefore mentally ill?

Among Native Americans/Alaskan Natives, suicide is the 2nd LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH?

Are they all therefore mentally ill as well?

Suicide Data Sheet - CDC

afsp.org Suicide Statistics

Give us a break.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

Let’s establish who and what Dr. McHugh is. Dr. Paul McHugh is an ultra-Conservative Catholic who blames gays for the church’s sexual abuse scandal, believes sexual orientation is a choice and would rather let an 11-year-old girl raped by a relative die rather than have an abortion. He was part of the campaign that led to the murder of abortion provider Dr. George Tiller in 2009.

When he was put in charge of the gender clinic Johns Hopkins in the 1975, by his own admission he intended from beginning to close it. The “study” he did was designed from the start to facilitate his goal. The study itself was pure nonsense, full of non-reproducible results, punishing patients for having jobs that were “too masculine,” or having been married to a woman at some point in their lives. McHugh has made it clear he finds cultural acceptance of transgender people unacceptable.

As a result, no reputable researcher will cite his “study,” and was not considered credible by any professional medical or mental health organization when developing guidelines for the treatment of transgender individuals. Link

Debunking Dr. Paul McHugh

McHugh likes to stand up and brag about how he had the Gender Clinic program at Johns Hopkins shut down in the late 1970s because he didn't think that transsexuals benefited from surgery (or transition, probably) at all.

McHugh's position flies in the face of research spanning close to twenty years before his decision to close the clinic at Johns Hopkins. It relies upon a single paper, which is deeply flawed:

Professional organizations supporting health care for transgender people?

• American Medical Association
  
• American Psychiatric Association
  
• American Psychological Association
  
• American Academy of Family Physicians
  
• American Academy of Physician Assistants
  
• American College of Nurse Midwives
  
• National Association of Social Workers
  
• World Professional Association for Transgender Health
  
• National Commission on Correctional Health Care
  
• American Public Health Association
  
• American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
  

The Truth About Transgender Suicide

Why transgender people are at risk is something that has actually been studied in great detail by psychologists and sociologists. They have found many of the same factors increase risk across multiple peer reviewed studies.

• Rejection by friends and family increases suicide risk
  
• Discrimination increases suicide risk
  
• Physical abuse increases suicide risk
  
• Being seen as transgender or gender non-conforming increases suicide risk
  
• Internalized transphobia increases suicide risk
  
• Intersecting minority identities increases suicide risk
  

Myths About Transition Regrets

Surgical regret is actually very uncommon. Virtually every modern study puts it below 4 percent, and most estimate it to be between 1 and 2 percent (Cohen-Kettenis & Pfafflin 2003, Kuiper & Cohen-Kettenis 1998, Pfafflin & Junge 1998, Smith 2005, Dhejne 2014). In some other recent longitudinal studies, none of the subjects expressed regret over medically transitioning (Krege et al. 2001, De Cuypere et al. 2006).

Haters gonna hate, I get that. Haters choosing to remain ignorant is either lack of intelligence or mental illness.

a reply to: Freija

I was so going to tell you how well your post was put together with quotes and all until I reached the end. If you want to personally call me names, like hater, maybe you need to grow up a little. I don't hate anyone. No one on ATS can accurately accuse me of hate by it's definition. But you use that term for anyone that doesn't agree with a particular group just like all the other brain-dead troll liberals...apparently.

I have an opinion with a basis in fact and a logical position. You don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you...but you resort to childish name calling of "hater"? I would have thought you more intelligent. So I assume you yell racist when someone disagrees with Obama also? So petty...so obvious in your weak attempt at an attack.

Great posts are offered here with great factual information that is well-referenced and that clearly demonstrate what medical and psychological science tell us about the topic ... and 99.9% of that is totally ignored because people chose to take generic statements personally and claim that they have their own opinions about the matter, regardless of all those facts.

Deny ignorance?

Groapair?

There are many statements in your post, I disagree with most of them. Dare I say it, I will debunk them, even. Heh, I'm a smug liberal, yeah.

originally posted by: Debunkology

Oh yes of course, it's always the religion that comes into play and NOT their professional credentials, and that guys professional credentials are among the best and that is no argument. The only argument against him is to "character assassinate" the guy. Call him a religious fanatic...that should do.

Psychiatrists being forced to toe the line is no different than Obama forcing this agenda on schools, it does not mean teachers agree but they have to toe the line also or may lose funding or their jobs. The linguistic gymnastics that they have had to play over the past decade speaks volumes. It's not a "mental illness" anymore it's a "mental condition". Separating the terms gender and sex, renaming Gender Identity disorder to "Gender Disphoria", coming up with the terms "sex assigned at birth". And to think, if you have a different opinion you are labeled WITH a mental illness, a phobia, an irrational fear of something, a "trans-phobic" person. All turning everything backwards and upside down.

Calling a transgender person insane, is that not linguistic gymnastics? Yeah, your psychobabble works both ways. If we separate the terms 'gender' and 'sex', we are doing nothing at all. We created both of those terms and we can separate or unite them at will. This is what the government and every law-giver is doing at any moment; creating and changing terms. We as a people change terms and reassign them in law to fit with our beliefs, so as to better fit our reality and create a better life for all of us. This is true, law is created by the people and for the people. Not only as you would like it, but as the people wishes.

It is true that some laws go against the will of the majority, or the minority. Some even go against YOUR will. How terrible. But no-one has yet invented a system that is better than democracy. We must rely on the peoples will, which says that gay marriage is moral. Now, I don't know if the people thinks that transgendered individuals should use the bathrooms of their "new" gender. I suspect they do think it. But it doesn't matter, the courts and the government will decide this. Just as they were designed to do, by your founding fathers.

If you think the psychologists are being pressured to endorse "transgenderism", then please prove this. But I don't see what Obama, or anyone, has to win by this. I'm sure there are more important issues. And if the issue of transgenders feels problematic and bothersome to you, then remember that the US has fought wars over similar issues in the past. In the second World War you went into Europe and saved many people from death and oppression. The Nazis put pink triangles on the shoulders of homosexuals, like the yellow stars on the shoulders of Jews. I don't think there was a separate mark for transsexuals, but times change, I guess. Now do not invent a new mark to put on them, even in your private mind. Label them as humans, nothing more or less.

originally posted by: Debunkology
It is no more BS than the US government saying the Guantanamo Bay inmates were having "advanced interrogation techniques administered to them" rather than simply stating the fact that they were being TORTURED. I'll give credit to the English language, it is definitely flexible. A marketing godsend, no wonder the British and Americans have been the best at business.

The English language may be flexible, as much as any language I know. But the inmates of Guantanamo are prisoners, and they are not US Citizen. I don't approve of torture, but I certainly don't approve of US Citizen being treated like foreign terrorists.

originally posted by: Debunkology
The trouble is, is that people who are suffering from gender dysphoria can also suffer from species dysphoria at the same time. Oh of course a guy who thinks he should be a chimp, but also has feelings of being a women just has a "mental condition", its just a dysphoria and one day hopefully he'll get his wish of being who he truly is!!

People can suffer from any kind if dysphoria, if you stretch the terms like that. A slippery slope, right? But so what? Is anyone claiming to be a chimp? Is anyone demanding to use a toilet for chimps? Let's stick to reality here. Life is too short to live it in fantasies like this. Why would a chimp need a separate toilet anyway? There are still male and female chimps. Are you afraid your daughter will be raped by a chimp?

Stupid questions call for stupid answers, eh?


(Sorry, this reply got a bit long, I'll continue in the next post.)

a reply to: Debunkology
(And here's the rest of it.)

originally posted by: Debunkology
What the west is doing is replacing REALITY with IDEAS, rather than basing their IDEAS on REALITY. Which is dangerous. I just want to know what the real agenda is.

The west has been doing this for years and years. Yes, it is dangerous. But it is also glorious and right. The ancient greeks did it. They had their ideas of what the world should be like, and they acted on them. The English did it, when they wrote the Magna Carta. The French did it, when they revolted against the Sun King, Louis the fourteenth. The Americans did it when they revolted against George, the tyrant king. The Russians tried to do it during WW1, but they failed, they fell to tyranny. Indeed, the pilgrims did it when they fled from tyranny to a new land, America. Join us.

originally posted by: Debunkology
Surely it can't be the fact that that convincing every single American with 'gender dysphoria' to go along with sexual reassignment surgery creates a new industry worth over $30,000,000,000?? And that is just USA alone. .... Wow, just imagine the industry worth in the future when the people who believe they should be dogs and cats, and chimps try and get their wish of masquerading as something they are not.

Is this industry? Big Pharma is driving this, or something like that? Big psychiatry? You are wrong. The same establishment, a few decades ago, told you that being transgender was a mental illness. I agree that they are corrupt, but they only took up this cause people feel it is right. Disenfranchised, transgender people feel that this is right. They are not your enemy. Obama is not transgender. The judges of the Supreme Court are not transgender. Maybe one or two in the Senate or the House of Representatives are transgender, who knows. But they are not your enemy. Your enemy is elsewhere. You fight bravely and relentlessly, but you fight against the wrong people. You are blind, but it is understandable, we are all blind. Blinded by the trash that is thrown at us.

"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

This is America. This is why I love America, even though I am not American. Maybe I love it more than my own country.

You think you fight to preserve America, but you are wrong. You are fighting against your own prejudice, and right now you are loosing. The west needs to be saved, but it will not be saved in the toilets of public schools. It matters f**k all, if transgendered kids go to whatever toilet. Just let them go there.

originally posted by: Debunkology Unfortunately we live in a world were MONEY rules and this situation is no different, do the transgender community REALLY Think the government cares about them? Since when has government EVER cared about human rights? The government has never cared about 99% of the population, so why the hell would they care about the 0.2%?

So what? So what if they don’t care about them? A broken clock is right twice a day, and two wrongs don’t make a right. Unite with the transgender community. Ask them what they want, and maybe they want the same thing as you. Freedom. They are idiots too, don’t get me wrong. They are afraid too, and they try to make this world right, and they fail, just like you, in a world which our fathers and mothers left us, terrible and wicked but still beautiful.

I beg of you, on my hands and knees, I get down on my stomach and eat the ash of this earth and I put it in my hair and I tear my clothes, just listen, you, just listen.

a reply to: MorganMorgan

As a bystander I have to say: thank you for your stunningly apt posts.

Intellect and reason are not dead at ATS while folks like you are posting.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Great posts are offered here with great factual information that is well-referenced and that clearly demonstrate what medical and psychological science tell us about the topic ... and 99.9% of that is totally ignored because people chose to take generic statements personally and claim that they have their own opinions about the matter, regardless of all those facts.

Deny ignorance?

Groapair?

So let me understand your point correctly. We all know that the collection of non-bias evidence (ie. facts) is the basis of making a decision or determination. With that collection, there will always be opinions, hypotheticals and guesses. And when one person reads the same facts as another, they still may conclude differently than the other. This is because after all the facts presented, the individual collating the facts usually makes their opinion in summary. But that summary is yet again...just an opinion.

So yes...having one's own opinion based upon facts and logic is perfectly acceptable to most people. It is only a minority of the population that demands that their opinion be the conclusion of all others lest the others be ignorant, stupid or gullible. While in fact...it is the pathetic fear of their own lack of intelligence that guides them to making demands upon the others...that they don't have the mental ability or physical strength to force.

In other words...Stuffitupyourass.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MorganMorgan

As a bystander I have to say: thank you for your stunningly apt posts.

Intellect and reason are not dead at ATS while folks like you are posting.

Thank you very much, I just got inspired I guess. I have to say I really appreciate it though. I think this issue is both important and not important, in a strange way. It stirs up a lot of emotions, but in the end it won't make or break anything. On a global scale, just a piece of the puzzle. Of course for transgender folks, for the individual, it is very important.

a reply to: WeAreAWAKE

My point is this: facts are not opinions; opinions are not facts. That's pretty basic stuff.

I'm not sure what "minority of the population" you're referring to that believes that opinions trump facts.

Republicans? Christian fundamentalists?

Do you fear your own lack of intelligence? Is that why you resort to such childish nonsense as telling me to "stuff it up my own ass?"

Or did you get butthurt (ironic) over something stated generally that you took personally, like some little whining brat?

a reply to: MorganMorgan

Yeah...take privacy away from the majority to appease a minority. Sounds like a great way to run a country that is about and for the people.

originally posted by: MorganMorgan

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: MorganMorgan

As a bystander I have to say: thank you for your stunningly apt posts.

Intellect and reason are not dead at ATS while folks like you are posting.

Thank you very much, I just got inspired I guess. I have to say I really appreciate it though. I think this issue is both important and not important, in a strange way. It stirs up a lot of emotions, but in the end it won't make or break anything. On a global scale, just a piece of the puzzle. Of course for transgender folks, for the individual, it is very important.

I would hazard that what is important here is not "who pees where" ... but rather the concept of freedom and justice instilled in the US Constitution.

That's what I always go back to in these cases. Again though, great inspiration!

Thankfully in the United States the rights of the majority and the minority (aka Americans) is still protected by our Constitution and our laws.

Thankfully, laws which try to take that away get addressed directly by President Obama's administration.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Might have been the Groapair comment but considering your position (pun intended) I'm sure you are much more familiar with butthurt than I. And I'm sorry I insulted you so badly that you had to respond with such great intelligence and dig deep into your command of the English language to pull "whining brat" out as a winning attack.

I'll just leave you to lick your wounds...or whatever else that is in your mouth.

a reply to: Gryphon66

No, I have stated facts. It's a fact that someone believing they are the opposite sex is a mental problem, and a fact that the only reason it's no longer listed plainly as such is political pressure. It is a fact that suicide rates for people who undergo sex change surgeries are very high. It's a fact that most younger people who experience some confusion grow out of it, if left alone and not given hormones or other treatment. It's a fact that not treating someone for such a mental issue is doing them more harm than good.