Kenneth Arnold Debunked?

As many of you know I've been an outspoken supporter of the possibility of Aliens and the existence of UFOs visiting Earth both in the past and in the here and now.

However...

From the very first moment I read about Kennith Arnold's sighting and description of what he saw and I was skeptical. You see, I have also been fascinated by WW-II aircraft all my life. The sighting took place back in 1947. The Cold War was just about to heat up and both the Soviets and the US were still very much on edge. Secrets and Secret aircraft developments were still in top priority.

This is where I think we get a major kick start on certain types of mysterious crafts being witnessed by the public. Anything from flying cigars shaped craft to saucer shaped flying discs.

Let's take a look at the description "Flying Saucer" where did it originate?

Some believe it began with Kennith Arnold in 1947The 1947 Kenneth Arnold UFO Sighting

The modern phenomena of UFOs and “flying saucers” began in Washington state on June 24, 1947, when Kenneth Arnold spotted nine mysterious, high-speed objects “flying like a saucer would” along the crest of the Cascade Range near Mount Rainier. His report made international headlines and triggered hundreds of similar accounts of “flying saucers” locally and across the nation.

Kenneth Arnold never said he saw "Flying Saucers" he said they skipped along like how a saucer would if thrown. In my mind and I've often thought about what he may have seen was actually some captured NAZI Germany Horten HO 229s either being tested or evaluated or were simply on a flight to a secret facility.

Horten Ho 229

During the final stages of the war, the U.S. military initiated Operation Paperclip, an effort to capture advanced German weapons research, and keep it out of the hands of advancing Soviet troops. A Horten glider and the Ho 229 V3, which was undergoing final assembly, were secured for sending to the United States for evaluation. On the way, the Ho 229 spent a brief time at RAE Farnborough in the UK,[3] during which it was considered whether British jet engines could be fitted, but the mountings were found to be incompatible[6] with the early British turbojets, which used larger-diameter centrifugal compressors as opposed to the slimmer axial-flow turbojets the Germans had developed. The Americans were just starting to create their own axial-compressor turbojets before the war's end, such as the Westinghouse J30, with a thrust level only approaching the BMW 003's full output.

Here's a picture of the US military unloading one in back in 1945, a full two years before Kenneth's sighting. Now to me the uncanny similarity between the two [Kenneth's Drawing and the actual shape of the Horten HO 229] is too close for a mere coincidence in my humble opinion, I feel the US had been flight testing captured NAZI aircraft...


Seems as if it were of any possible advantage over the Soviets it and it's capabilities would have been a closely guarded secret. Interesting to note, that Northrop, the US manufacturer of its own flying wing design was also very interested in it. No, I don't have any proof. Just some speculation and what I believe to be circumstantial proof that not only did the US have in it's possession a craft similar in shape but well with the time frame of the sighting and with the Cold War just heating up a very good reason to keep such craft secret.

a reply to: SLAYER69
I would say that for it to have been Horten 229's, the government was more than just testing them.... since he saw nine of them flying together. It would have had to be a program where we were producing them in a large amount, to see nine flying simultaneously.

Like with most U.F.O sightings, most are ours, some are theirs.

But, I agree with butcherguy, if he saw nine of them, it seems like it was a squadron of ours, or more precisely Ex-German.

Good shout!!

a reply to: SLAYER69


I think you got it Slayer,great thread buddy!

The wing design is almost similar between the drawing and the photo, but the cockpit is different, maybe they were testing a new design, being that they had 9 already. There's also a story by someone I dont remeber, that alluded to the SR-71 being inspired by the crashed ship in Roswell.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Operation Seahorse recovered/looted German planes and tech and shipped them to the USA in boxcars. From there, most were left out in the open on a pier for a few years. The ones that could fly were flown to Wright AFB. After that, some guy who's name I can't remember was recalled to service to do something about the ones left. They then became a part of the Paul Garber Restoration Facility (Paul E. Garber Preservation, Restoration and Storage Facility).

Whatever he said he saw, I don't think they were Hortons.

There's a lot of controversy about the company he kept and a few whiffs of psy-ops in there. I'm not so sure and don't put a lot of weight behind his report. It was a one-man alleged sighting and iirc they were 20 miles away. Martin Shough authored a fascinating report and I couldn't get past the idea that he could see details from such a distance.

It was a cultural milestone and still no better than a stranger saying they saw a ghost last week.

a reply to: SLAYER69

No.

The shapes aren't THAT similar. A stretch imo.

Furthermore those planes surely wouldn't match Arnold's description of the flight characteristics of the craft he saw.

Aliens.

End of story.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Okay, I didn't read the back story of his claims, but if he saw them from 20 miles away, then how could he possibly determine what the cockpit looked like?

Thanks for that bit of info Kandinsky

Whatever he saw Arnold may have been the catalyst that kick started a whole cultural & social phenomenon.

Saucers were everywhere shortly after his report went global. Arnold may not have seen a saucer but plenty of people did right afterwards and have done up to date.

So I see his sighting report as part of a history you are not likely to learn in school. But it's importance should not be underestimated. No matter what you believe Arnold had actually seen.





You got it OP

I personally tend to think that he saw a pattern of light reflecting from ice on the mountain peaks on and around Mount Rainier. Combine it all with glare inside the plane and bouncing around, and you've got a recipe for an honest misidentification.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Yes, I brought up the same idea in a thread, (not started by me) last year with the same pics,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Some video to help.


I think it's pretty certain that the 229 flew succesfully for the Germans, and the film example flying in the video, is an American test flight.

Here's the original concept flying in 1935 It was a glider, but had some king of power source, note that this was an english report of the time,

a reply to: smurfy

I've posted this idea myself a few years back in a thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: mirageman

You got it OP

i was gunning and running. Had to post, start dinner and go for an errand.

Good thing to remember about his case is that the Roswell 'incident' occured on July 8th, exactly 14 days after Arnold's sighting.

It's a good bet it was one of whatever Arnold saw that day that crashed in Roswell. There are some Roswell witness descriptions of the craft that sound similar. More of a flying wing than a saucer. In both cases.

It would all make sense if it was one of these modified German things, which would have been embarrassing.

I think the inept farce of the cover story about a crashed UFO could just be the result of some genius panicking and saying the wrong thing off the top of his nearly empty head to the press at the time.

Someone probably got their ass well kicked for this one. Arguably a little bit more of a public relations cluster # than the whole crashed captured German prototype aircraft angle. Could have been intended as a Nuke bomber platform. Would explain the involvement of the conveniently nearby 509th Sqdrn.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Just some speculation and what I believe to be circumstantial proof that not only did the US have in it's possession a craft similar in shape but well with the time frame of the sighting and with the Cold War just heating up a very good reason to keep such craft secret.

if it was a squadron of 229s would it still be secret now?

originally posted by: aynock

if it was a squadron of 229s would it still be secret now?

It was reported very early on that the flying wing design had low radar detection. Couple that with it's wooden/plywood panels. Seems that Stealth was way ahead of it's time and hence from then till now would be guarded.

No?

What Arnold first reported upon landing, was "nine disc shaped metallic flying objects."


June 24 1947 - The Oregonian (Portland) 2:58 p.m. PST (June 26 edition)

Washinton - Kenneth Arnold, flying his private plane near Mount Rainier, was attracted by reflected sunlight from nine disc shaped metallic flying objects. He watched as they flashed across the sky, one behind the other, "skipping as saucers upon water."
They tilted back and forth as they flew. He clocked them as they flew past Mount Adams, and calculated that they were flying at a speed of 1,500 miles per hour and at an altitude of 9,500 feet.

When he landed in Pendleton, Oregon he was interviewed at the local radio station where the term "flying saucer" was first coined.
---

On July 12th intelligence officers Captain William Lee Davidson and First Lieutenant Frank Mercer Brown interviewed Arnold for six hours, taking a lengthy detailed statement from him at Boise's downtown Hotel Owyhee.

At one point they told Arnold about the latest pictures taken by William A. Rhodes in Arizona and drew him a sketch of what the craft in the pictures looked like.





Suddenly Arnold 'remembered' that the lead craft in the formation he had seen looked the same and included it his written report he gave them.





Later Arnold was contacted by Ray Palmer who offered to pay for Arnold's story for inclusion into his new 'Fate' magazine.




Palmer assigned artists to make sketches of objects described by readers and disc-shaped flying machines appeared on the covers of his 'Amazing Stories' magazine long before June 1947.


Nearly 10 years later Arnold was asked by Palmer to pose with the cresent shaped drawing seen in the OP as a publicity photo for his new book co authored with Arnold.




So it is well documented that Arnold's description of the craft he witnessed 'evolved' over time.

What he originally reported matched the rest of the reports coming in from all over the country.

The craft depicted in the publicity 'photo OP' does not.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Let's take a look at the description "Flying Saucer" where did it originate?

Some believe it began with Kennith Arnold in 1947

Actually, the article written in the Roswell paper said it first. The reason I became skeptical about Arnold's tale, it used the same term, he was connected to government, and it was during the public flap about Roswell.

My conclusion based on that is his story was part of the cover up to distract peoples attention away from Roswell in particular. Gave them something else to talk about that had no 'chain of custody' for evidence.

Image

Adding:

Some of Arnold's statements made the objects sound very much like a flock of birds:

"I noticed to the left of me a chain which looked to me like the tail of a Chinese kite, kind of weaving."
"I, at first, thought that they were geese because it flew like geese."
"Maybe it would be best to describe their flight characteristics as very similar to a formation of geese."

In these interviews with reporter Bob Pratt, Arnold gives us good reason to doubt his credibility. He talks about "mystery submarines," says that his phone line has been tapped, that UFOs may be alive, and they seem to be able to read his mind. He says he has spotted UFOs "seven or eight times."

controversy

Here is a better possibility that predates the Horton brothers design, was designed and flown by U.S. contractors and unlike the Ho 229 it flew under its own power...



Northrop N-9M

Early flying wings were notorious for being "Wobbly" due to a lack of a tail. Our modern flying wings use computers to compensate.

Question

How would a group of nine appear to be flying if they were all wobbly? wouldn't appear from a distance of having an up and down, left to right or skipping around appearance?

Like a saucer skipping on a pond?