Kenneth Arnold Debunked?

a reply to: SLAYER69

It was reported very early on that the flying wing design had low radar detection. Couple that with it's wooden/plywood panels. Seems that Stealth was way ahead of it's time and hence from then till now would be guarded.

No?

Engineers of the Northrop-Grumman Corporation had long been interested in the Ho 229, and several of them visited the Smithsonian Museum's facility in Silver Hill, Maryland in the early 1980s to study the V3 airframe, in the context of developing the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit.

source

if it was in the possession of a museum that long ago i'd guess it wasn't considered a secret

a reply to: SLAYER69

I'm not sure what was meant by "skipping," but one night I watched an object flying by that was advancing forward and upward, in steps. Like the darn thing was taking steps up a stairway, quite quickly at that..

originally posted by: Drunkenparrot

Here is a better possibility that predates the Horton brothers design, was designed and flown by U.S. contractors and unlike the Ho 229 it flew under its own power...

Northrop N-9M

It doesn't predate what the Hortens did, their aircraft first flew in 1935, and pretty much the same in design as the later 229's design which carried jet engines. The Northtrop in your picture is around 1940, with only one example then dropped..officially that is.
Look also at the profiles in your pictures, take the first one for instance it could well be a profile of the Horten as pictured by William Rhodes on the ground with just a little licence, or even an early version of the 'flying flapjack' (Vought V-173) with only vertical stabilisers, (hard to see from the ground) which had similarities to the Horten, was even more disc shaped, except that it's flight direction would have been backwards as compared to the Horten, it was flying in 1947, [sic] but officially went the same way as other wacky racers.
I don't have much doubt that what Kenneth Arnold saw was something from the Horten concept in the first instance.

To illustrate the point in my previous post, here are some excerpts from 'The REAL Flying Saucer' in Kenneth Arnold's own words repeatedly calling them Flying Saucers and Saucerships long before the Ray Palmer's inspired Flying Wing aberration appeared.



(right click on image and choose 'open image in new tab" to see full size)

a reply to: SLAYER69
Well, Slay.....I don't think so.....but I do think some very weird connections are involved.
The Maury island affair may be a place to explore more deeply....
Theres a dude lecturing on you tube about some very strange bedfellows that were involved in covert conspiracy of some sort....
Names involved are Guy Hottel FBI original Fox Mulder in charge of the FBI X files at the time...
Fred Crissman _Maury Island reported UFOs (doughnut shaped by the way)
Our subject Arnold......
The dead leutenants who crashed the b 25 into Ranier...(supposedly with samples of the Maury Island saucer aboard)
J Edgar Hoover.....
And a host of bishops with no congregations...
Which seguays into the JFK assassination....later on of course....

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: SLAYER69


There's a lot of controversy about the company he kept and a few whiffs of psy-ops in there.

- What company is that?

- What are the whiffs?

(Remember he was paid by Ray Palmer to go investigate Chrisman's Maury Island tale.)

Thanks A51

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: SLAYER69

... The reason I became skeptical about Arnold's tale, it used the same term, he was connected to government, and it was during the public flap about Roswell.

So how was he connected to government?

(Remember he was paid by Ray Palmer to go investigate Chrisman's Maury Island tale.)


And actually Arnold's tale was 2 weeks before the public flap about Roswell.


Thanks A51

An additional sighting made same place/time as Arnold's corroborates them as 'Discs'.


June 24 1947 - Phoenix Republic (Arizona) morning (June 26 edition)

(AP) Pendleton, Oregon - This morning prospector Fred Johnson in the Hood River region of the Cascade Mountains of Oregon sighted five or six discs flying silently overhead, heading toward the southeast. He noticed that his compass began spinning when the discs passed over. His watch also stopped running.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I personally tend to think that he saw a pattern of light reflecting from ice on the mountain peaks on and around Mount Rainier. Combine it all with glare inside the plane and bouncing around, and you've got a recipe for an honest misidentification.

Whether it's that specific illusion or some other illusion, I think an illusion of some sort is probably the most consistent with the "skipping" motion he described which could be related to atmospheric distortions causing the image to "skip", which seems much more likely than a physical airplane making such "skipping" motions.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Drunkenparrot

Here is a better possibility that predates the Horton brothers design, was designed and flown by U.S. contractors and unlike the Ho 229 it flew under its own power...

Northrop N-9M

It doesn't predate what the Hortens did, their aircraft first flew in 1935, and pretty much the same in design as the later 229's design which carried jet engines. The Northtrop in your picture is around 1940, with only one example then dropped..officially that is.
Look also at the profiles in your pictures, take the first one for instance it could well be a profile of the Horten as pictured by William Rhodes on the ground with just a little licence, or even an early version of the 'flying flapjack' (Vought V-173) with only vertical stabilisers, (hard to see from the ground) which had similarities to the Horten, was even more disc shaped, except that it's flight direction would have been backwards as compared to the Horten, it was flying in 1947, [sic] but officially went the same way as other wacky racers.
I don't have much doubt that what Kenneth Arnold saw was something from the Horten concept in the first instance.

Respectfully, research Jack Northrop's flying wings which substantially predate the Horton brothers efforts.

The Ho-229 is neat but that is about it, it has begun to take on a mythology that deviates from established facts and is clear historical revision.

It wasn't an accident that it was crated up as part of Operation Lusty, then forgotten until the Northrop ATB engineers uncrated it, took a look, said nothing new to learn here and went about the business of designing the B2.

Ever since that Nat Geo program aired.....

Don't take my word for it, do some research beyond wiki on both programs.

Neat.

So no saucer shape was ever seen, just a flying wing that skipped like a saucer toy on water. The term 'saucer' which described the behavior of the sighting got snatched up by hoaxers and the delusional and a meme was born.

Maybe Bill Clinton was describing a cigar shaped one and demonstrating the landing in a hanger at the oval office to Monica.

a reply to: SLAYER69
You would do well to consider the book "Roswell and the Reich" by Joseph Farrell, which supposes this same theory. It gives an incisive look into other happenstances therein as well.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Thank you.

a reply to: A51Watcher

Your document is missing pages? it leaps from 77 to 80 just when it gets to the good part!!


I would love to see the whole thing... I did a search and didn't see that article. Can you put up the missing pages?? Pretty please????

- AB

originally posted by: abe froman
a reply to: A51Watcher

Thank you.

Sure Abe, thank you for speaking up.

In order to entertain that there was a possibility that this was a squadron of Horten's, the fuel logistics would have to make sense, and they don't. The range of one of these certainly would be less than a thousand miles, so where did they take off from? Were they known to be carrier capable? With limited range, how could these be there?

A real buff like Zaph could probably chime in with the actual flying radius of these things (and enough fuel to return whens't they came).

originally posted by: AboveBoard
a reply to: A51Watcher

Your document is missing pages? it leaps from 77 to 80 just when it gets to the good part!!

I would love to see the whole thing... I did a search and didn't see that article. Can you put up the missing pages?? Pretty please????

- AB

Sorry AB, I was only posting the pages relevant to the point I was making. NP on sharing the rest.

Reason you couldn't search the article online is cause they are APRO scans that were kindly pointed out for us by Sir IsaacKoi, here -

www.abovetopsecret.com...


And here's 'the rest of the story' as they say -

Yeah I have been all over the place with this one.
Maury Island hoax? Fred Crisman, secret agents, communists,
secret churches, the Kennedy assassination .
I hope for all our sakes it was a Horton,
but the writing on the wall says something much more
secret and guarded.
Here's Arnold's report.
project1947.com...

a reply to: A51Watcher

THANK YOU! Your input in this thread is extremely important, A51. Most appreciated.

originally posted by: UnderKingsPeak
Yeah I have been all over the place with this one.
Maury Island hoax? Fred Crisman, secret agents, communists,
secret churches, the Kennedy assassination .
I hope for all our sakes it was a Horton,
but the writing on the wall says something much more
secret and guarded.
Here's Arnold's report.
project1947.com...

Probably not a Horton, because neither Hortons nor any typical aircraft would fly the way Arnold described, "skipping" or dipping every few seconds:

www.history.com...

Regarding the June 1947 sighting over Mount Rainier, Air Force investigators deemed both Arnold and the prospector to be credible witnesses, but concluded that what they had seen was a mirage, not actual flying ships.

That seems to fit Arnold's description better and while I don't agree with all the conclusions of Air Force investigators, I think their explanation for this event is the most likely.