God Did It! The rest is post modern chatter!

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Trust me young padawan. I have admitted being wrong many time. For example I was a Christian once upon a time. One of those annoying try to convert all my friends types. But I was wrong about my belief.

My belief wasn't based in logic or reason but a desire for there to be more than what there is (life after death). I've been wrong about all kinds of other things too. And I changed my mind from blindly having faith to thinking critically and reasoning and examining the evidence.

I was young once like you once now I'm older a bit wiser and realize I don't know all that much. But I learn everyday.

a reply to: Joecanada11

Oh you mean you removed yourself from the Lord by looking for ways to fault him...
I understand... I said you were a critic...
Although I am young... I am not dumb...
How can a believer have blind faith?
You may have tested the waters...
But you never found what you were looking for because of your own doubts...
Thou shall not test the Lord your God...
I have no doubt you were young that you are now older and wiser...
I am sure you learn everyday...
I hope one day you realize you have fooled yourself...
And humble yourself before the Lord...
Not for me...
For you...

Desire it or not...There is life after death for all...

There is something more to it though Joe let's be honest with each other... You demanded something from the Lord and feel let down... Truth is he's still waiting for Joe to come home...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Truth is he's still waiting for Joe to come home...

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: edmc^2

But where does it say God said that to Adam, Eve or both?

It doesn't.

You just interpreted that he would have said it to them.

"8 Then the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the East, and there he put the man he had formed. 9 He made all kinds of beautiful trees grow there and produce good fruit. In the middle of the garden stood the tree that gives life and the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad.[d]" Gen 2:8,9 GNT

"15 Then the Lord God placed the man in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it and guard it. 16 He told him, “You may eat the fruit of any tree in the garden, 17 except the tree that gives knowledge of what is good and what is bad.[f] You must not eat the fruit of that tree; if you do, you will die the same day.”

Ok?

So, out of that, where does it say "if you don't eat the fruit you will live forever"?

Or are you just filling in the blanks, AKA interpreting what is there and what is not there?

Up to you to decide what it says.

So it's up for interpretation.

I said that how long ago?

no. just got tired.

Is that because you couldn't prove your point beyond personal interpretation?

No. just because it's hard to converse with people who are so close minded.

I'm close minded because you can't give any answers that are not your own interpretation?

You haven't proven a single thing you said you would. All you've done is use interpretation to fill in the blanks.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Thanks I appreciate the sentiment. But I haven't fooled myself. The evidence just isn't there. And again why worship a being that endorsed slavery , rape and men being in charge of women. Or the millions of people that God ordered to be killed including women and children. Innocent lives were ordered massacred because of the "supposed sins" of their parents. A being that loved the smell of burning animals as a sacrifice.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: edmc^2

Nothing can come out of nothing

So, where did god come from?
Serious question!!

Your question presupposes that God is a creation. God is not a creation nor the creation but the Creator. He's an Always Existing Creator. Thus He has no creator for He is the ONLY creator.

He is the ultimate source of the raw material that brought about the universe - energy transforming into matter.

Everything has a beginning. Check.

Nothing just happens; everything is created. Check.

"God" has no beginning and was not created. WHAADAAFAA?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: edmc^2

Nothing can come out of nothing

So, where did god come from?
Serious question!!

Your question presupposes that God is a creation. God is not a creation nor the creation but the Creator. He's an Always Existing Creator. Thus He has no creator for He is the ONLY creator.

He is the ultimate source of the raw material that brought about the universe - energy transforming into matter.

Everything has a beginning. Check.

Nothing just happens; everything is created. Check.

"God" has no beginning and was not created. WHAADAAFAA?

Well now, you're obviously looking at it wrong. Surely there is some scripture or holy text that explains how a paradox is actually quite reasonable as opposed to the preposterous theory of evolution.

Although I suppose this thread does qualify as post modern chatter...point to the OP for at least being right on that count.

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I believe we are faulting the system that uses this particular figure in its various interpretations as it's basis for validity. You can't fault a fictional character for real world consequences, that's just nuts.

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: 5StarOracle

Thanks I appreciate the sentiment. But I haven't fooled myself. The evidence just isn't there. And again why worship a being that endorsed slavery , rape and men being in charge of women. Or the millions of people that God ordered to be killed including women and children. Innocent lives were ordered massacred because of the "supposed sins" of their parents. A being that loved the smell of burning animals as a sacrifice.

Because Jesus died to make up for our sins!!!

Making the God who endorsed genocide, rape, beating your wife, slavery exc.. decide to no longer be an evil deity.

Why humanity is supposed to forgive a pe-Jesus God for being a truly evil bastard, I have NO idea.....

Though I will say it's sorta consistent..

God will forgive you for rape, murder, childmolestation, exc as long as you say your sorry and believe in Jesus..

So why shouldn't we forgive him, since he decided to let his son be tortured and then murdered...

Of course none of that makes any logical sense, but at least it consistently doesn't make sense for anyone!

a reply to: edmc^2

Ok so you believe science when they say "something can't come from nothing", which lead to your theory that it backs up the creation story. Because God said he created the universe from nothing.

Yet your not willing to apply that same law (that is the crux of you OP) to God...

That's why this is so laughable.. There is no consistency in anything concerning religion. People point to science that is %100 based on consistency. Hell, if ANYONE can provide one repeatable example where science is wrong. They throw it all out and start over...but no one can provide one stitch of proof they are wrong..

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I hope one day you realize you have fooled yourself...

I hope one day you realize who's being fooled.
Creationism is a clear demonstration of deception, because it is a form of religious extremism which requires a degree of reality denial, and believers openly admit that.

Creationist post a statement of faith, where they admit that they assume their conclusions at the onset for reasons that have nothing to do with factual information, and more importantly, where they refuse to ever admit when they’re wrong. We see this all through these forums.

“By definition, no apparent, perceived, or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record.” –Answersingenesis.org

“verbal inspiration guarantees that these writings, as originally and miraculously given, are infallible and completely authoritative on all matters with which they deal, free from error of any sort, scientific [sic] and historical as well as moral and theological.” –Institute for Creation Research

“[this school]….stresses the Word of God as the only source of truth in our world.” –Canyon Creek Christian Academy

“The Bible is the divinely inspired written Word of God. Because it is inspired throughout, it is completely free from error–scientifically, historically, theologically, and morally. Thus it is the absolute authority in all matters of truth, faith, and conduct. The final guide to the interpretation of the Bible is the Bible itself. God’s world must always agree with God’s Word, because the Creator of the one is the Author of the other. Thus, where physical evidences from the creation may be used to confirm the Bible, these evidences must never be used to correct or interpret the Bible. The written Word must take priority in the event of any apparent conflict.” –Mark Ramsey’s ‘Greater Houston Creation Association’

“Revealed truth: That which is revealed in Scripture, whether or not man has scientifically proved it. If it is in the Bible, it is already true without requiring additional proof. “…Fallacy: that which contradicts God’s revealed truth, no matter how scientific, how commonly believed, or how apparently workable or logical it may seem.” –Bob Jones University, Biology Student Text (3rd ed. 2 vol.)

Each of these organizations announces that they will automatically and thoughtlessly reject without consideration any and all evidence that might ever arise –should it conflict with their interpretation of Bronze age folklore. They admit in advance that they refuse to be reasoned with, so that no matter how true the truth really is, no amount of proof will ever change their minds. This is one of the reasons I say that faith is the most dishonest position it is possible to have. Aron Ra -

Are we clear?

Does the universe exist?

a reply to: Pyrrho

no

a reply to: flyingfish

I do not fall into the classification of a creationist through the examples you chose to provide...
I know full well the failings of science to account for a great many things...
Although I believe in creation I still believe in science for what it is and what it is not...
As much as you would like to claim science disproves the possibility of God... It is science which is having a hard time not eluding to his existence...
Science and scientists have tried foolishly to disprove the existence or need for God and in their attempts they hit stumbling block in thier theories which require that which is beyond natural means...
When design is shown they are left dumbfounded...
Science has not shown that there is no need for God or that he is improbable...
Instead it is hinting at his existence being needed and or the cause...
But you would have to be objective to realize this...

Give your head a shake...
You and I do not think alike...there is no "we"...
So I will say instead you are a fool for believing anything has been proven by either side...
Hope that was clear enough for you...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

Now hold on.. I never said science disproves God. Science cannot disprove a magic man mythology, it cannot be tested. Besides, once you invoke magic then that's the answer, which of course answers nothing.
And no.. Science is not dumbfounded by any appearance of design, all structures in nature have mechanism that can be studied and measured.
Science has no need to invoke a diety to answer anything and if it did, it would not be science.
I use objective reasoning so you are correct. I do not think like you.

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: VoidHawk
a reply to: edmc^2

Nothing can come out of nothing

So, where did god come from?
Serious question!!

Your question presupposes that God is a creation. God is not a creation nor the creation but the Creator. He's an Always Existing Creator. Thus He has no creator for He is the ONLY creator.

He is the ultimate source of the raw material that brought about the universe - energy transforming into matter.

Everything has a beginning. Check.

Nothing just happens; everything is created. Check.

"God" has no beginning and was not created. WHAADAAFAA?

"God" has no beginning and was not created.

Is the ONLY LOGICAL answer because the alternative is NOTHING created everything including God.

Now please tell how logical is that?

a reply to: edmc^2

How is that the only logical answer?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: edmc^2

Ok so you believe science when they say "something can't come from nothing", which lead to your theory that it backs up the creation story. Because God said he created the universe from nothing.

Yet your not willing to apply that same law (that is the crux of you OP) to God...

That's why this is so laughable.. There is no consistency in anything concerning religion. People point to science that is %100 based on consistency. Hell, if ANYONE can provide one repeatable example where science is wrong. They throw it all out and start over...but no one can provide one stitch of proof they are wrong..

OK - which one is more laughable?

God has no beginning and end! He is a UNCREATED God - Always Existing and Always Living. Just like the existence of infinite space so is God Jehovah/Yahweh.

Or

Nothing - ABSOLUTE NOTHING created everything including God.

If you say the later - what then is ABSOLUTE NOTHING?

And how can it create something if it's ABSOLUTE NOTHING?

I'll be waiting for your logical explanation.

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: edmc^2

How is that the only logical answer?

Simple.

Because "God did it".

/sarcasm

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: edmc^2

How is that the only logical answer?

What other logical answers then can you come up with?

What other LOGICAL answers than an Always Existing Uncreated God is the SOURCE of the material universe?

NONE.

Try if you may, you can't come up with another.