It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

God Did It! The rest is post modern chatter!

page: 43
23
<< 40  41  42    44  45  46 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:09 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2




no beginning and end, just like God.

And no requirement for one, either.

Feel free now, to say "NO NO NO" and stomp your feet again. That was fun.

edit on 5/2/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:10 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2

The biggest problem here is this...

If you say God is infinite, always was, always has been, then I can say the Big Bang and great contraction always was, always has been. The constraints are lifted by using infinity clauses.

Now, neither of us can prove either God, the Big Bang or the great contraction. They can be talked about and hypothesised about, but can't be proven.

See the problem?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:10 PM
link   

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: TerryDon79

That would make those things give the credit to God by definition...


No. An infinity loop doesn't need a God or creator as it has no beginning and no end.

Try to keep up.


INFINITY no beginning no end no creator

God - Always Existing, no beginning no end, no creator.

So what's the difference in terms of a logical explanation?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:12 PM
link   

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: TerryDon79

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: TerryDon79

That would make those things give the credit to God by definition...


No. An infinity loop doesn't need a God or creator as it has no beginning and no end.

Try to keep up.


INFINITY no beginning no end no creator

God - Always Existing, no beginning no end, no creator.

So what's the difference in terms of a logical explanation?


The difference in terms is one has a thing overlording on others and the other is just the way it happens. 2 different things.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:13 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2

You haven't proven anything. You think that your title makes it true? Nope. Ultimate truth? Nope just your version of things. As Terry said the universe could be infinite and there's some physics theories that are working on this. Infinite expansion and contraction. No creator necessary.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: edmc^2

The biggest problem here is this...

If you say God is infinite, always was, always has been, then I can say the Big Bang and great contraction always was, always has been. The constraints are lifted by using infinity clauses.

Now, neither of us can prove either God, the Big Bang or the great contraction. They can be talked about and hypothesised about, but can't be proven.

See the problem?


Bottom line - the explanation will ALWAYS boil down to this.

Something or Someone Always Existing is the ultimate source of the physical universe.

But if I take your point of view, the Big Bang came from INFINITE loop.

So what's in the INFINITE loop from which the Big Bang emerged from?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:16 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2




So what's in the INFINITE loop from which the Big Bang emerged from?

Bunny rabbits? Unicorns?
What difference does it make? It had nothing to do with this Universe.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:18 PM
link   

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2




So what's in the INFINITE loop from which the Big Bang emerged from?

Bunny rabbits? Unicorns?
What difference does it make? It had nothing to do with this Universe.


It does if you accept E = mc2



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:18 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2

Rainbows and fluffy seashells for all I know.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:19 PM
link   

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2




So what's in the INFINITE loop from which the Big Bang emerged from?

Bunny rabbits? Unicorns?
What difference does it make? It had nothing to do with this Universe.


It does if you accept E = mc2


No it doesn't. E=mc2 does, in no way, prove God. Don't even try it.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:20 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2



It does if you accept E = mc2


Are you claiming the previous Universes had the same physics as this one?
Upon what do you base that claim?

Never mind, I know what you're going to say.
edit on 5/2/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:23 PM
link   
a reply to: Joecanada11




As Terry said the universe could be infinite and there's some physics theories that are working on this.


Coulda woulda - okay, if the universe is infinite what then was the Big Bang?




Infinite expansion and contraction.


...of what?

and when / where did this "expansion and contraction" came from if it's infinite?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2



It does if you accept E = mc2


Are you claiming the previous Universes had the same physics as this one?
Upon what do you base that claim?

Never mind, I know what you're going to say.


and what am I gonna say?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:24 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2

Because God did it.

Or, come on, surprise me.

edit on 5/2/2016 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:26 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2

The Big Bang and great contraction has happened as infinitum. It has always been and always will be.

Now, if you don't accept that the above could be true, you must concede the SAME ARGUMENT for God.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: edmc^2



It does if you accept E = mc2


Are you claiming the previous Universes had the same physics as this one?
Upon what do you base that claim?

Never mind, I know what you're going to say.


Even if I take your side that there are MULTIverse (as opposed UNIverse), the question still remain. When did they begin and what or who created them?

You will always come back to infinite existence.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:32 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2

You have just proven you do not understand how logic works. No where in the above post have you proven that the deity must exist, nor that it must be singular. You rather have shown that you believe it to be so.

Here is an example of logic. It is also an example of this discussion. I am neither saying I agree of disagree with it. But it is what an logical argument looks like.

Now what do I beleive? I've posted in thexse forums before what I beleive. But here is how it began: At first, there was only emptiness, and a dark sea in it. And there was heat in the dark sea, and from that came desire, the first seed of the mind ...

None of that contradicts the hypothesis of the Big Bang.

edit on 2-5-2016 by Noinden because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: TerryDon79
a reply to: edmc^2

The Big Bang and great contraction has happened as infinitum. It has always been and always will be.

Now, if you don't accept that the above could be true, you must concede the SAME ARGUMENT for God.


Except that, we ONLY observed ONE Universe with ONE beginning one Big Bang.

Hence, your multiverse theory with its infinite big bangs is not supported by logic and facts.



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:35 PM
link   
a reply to: edmc^2


When did they begin
Do you know what infinite means?


what or who created them?
Beats me. The combination of different things? Different combinations each time?


You will always come back to infinite existence.
And you will infinitely insist that = God.


I'm curious. If your faith is so strong, why do you feel such a need to defend it?



posted on May, 2 2016 @ 06:35 PM
link   

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Sorry I was unaware of the extent of delusions from which you suffer..
Clearly you can tell yourself anything and believe it...


Looks like what You and the OP are doing...

Edit
O YOU KNOW WHO GOD IS?
Do you know who 'god' is? God is not Visnu (a deity) or Siva (energy) or Brahma (creator), not the wind, the sun nor the moon; not I or you; not Laksmi, or the mind (intellect).

God is without form and undivided (not in the objects); that splendor (devanam) which is not made and which has neither beginning nor end is known as god (deva) which is pure consciousness (awareness).

That alone is fit to be worshipped; that alone is all.

If one is unable to worship this consciousness, then he is encouraged to worship the form. The latter yields finite results, but the former (consciousness) bestows infinite bliss. He who ignores the infinite and is devoted to the finite abandons a pleasure garden, and seeks the thorny bush.

However, sages sometimes worship a form playfully.

Now for the articles used in worship: wisdom, self-control and the perception of the Self in all beings are the foremost among those articles. The Self alone is consciousness, which is fit to be worshipped at all times with the flowers of wisdom.

Indeed only infinite consciousness (cid-akasa) which alone exists even after the cosmic dissolution, exists even now, utterly devoid of objectivity. All these mountains, the whole world, the firmament, the Self, the jiva (individual) and all the elements of which the world is constituted - all these are nothing but pure consciousness.

Before the so-called creation, when only this pure consciousness existed, where were all these (heaven, etc)?

Space (akasa), supreme or infinite space (paramakasam), absolute space (brahmakasam), creation, consciousness - are mere words and they indicate the same truth, even as synonyms do.

Even as the duality experienced in a dream is illusory, the duality implied in the creation of the world is illusory. Even as the dream objects seem to exist and function in the inner world of consciousness in a dream, objects seem to exist and function in the outer world of consciousness during the wakeful state.

Nothing really happens in both these states. Even as consciousness alone is the reality in the dream state, consciousness alone is the substance in the wakeful state too.

That is the Lord, this is the supreme truth, that you are, that am I, that is all.

The worship of that Lord (consciousness) is true worship, and by that worship one attains everything. Consciousness is undivided and indivisible, non-dual and neither fashioned nor created by activity; it is not attained by external efforts. Its adoration is the fountain source of joy.

The external worship of a form (deity, holy personage) is prescribed for those whose intelligence has not be awakened, and who are immature like little boys. When one does not have self-control, he uses flowers in worship; such worship is futile, even as adoring the Self in an external form is futile. However these immature devotees derive satisfaction by worshipping an object created by themselves, they may even earn worthless reward from such worship.

I shall now describe to you the mode of worship appropriate to enlightened people. The Lord fit to be worshipped is the one who upholds the entire creation, who is beyond thoughts and description, who is beyond the concepts of even the 'all' and the 'collective totality.'

He alone is referred to as 'God' who is undivided and indivisible by space and time, who's light illumines all the objects, who is pure and absolute consciousness. He is that intelligence which is beyond all its parts, which is hidden in all that is, which is the being in all that is and which robs all that is of their being (i.e. which veils the truth of their Self). This God is in the middle of being and non-being (as awareness). It is God, and the truth that is indicated by 'Om'. It (awareness) exists everywhere, like the essence in a plant.

The pure consciousness which is in you, in me and in all the gods and goddesses alone is God. Holy one, eve the other gods endowed with form are indeed nothing but that pure consciousness. That is God, that is 'all' I am; everything is attained from and through him.

That God is not distant from anyone, nor is he difficult to attain: since he is forever seated in the body and he is everywhere like space.

Somewhere this consciousness functions as space, somewhere as jiva (individual), somewhere as action, somewhere as substance and so forth; but without intending to do so. Even as all the different oceans are but one indivisible mass of water, this consciousness, though described ain different ways, is but one cosmic mass of consciousness.

This consciousness is like a mirror which holds a reflection within itself, as it were, without undergoing any modification thereby. Without undergoing any modification in itself, this consciousness appears as all these countless beings in this universe.

In this body, thoughts and notions generate action in the light of this very consciousness. Surely, but for this consciousness even an object which is immediately in front of oneself cannot be experienced? The body cannot function or exist but for this consciousness. It grows, it falls, it eats. This consciousness creates and maintains all the movable and immovable beings in the universe. The infinite consciousness alone exists, nothing else exists. Consciousness alone has arisen in consciousness.

Consciousness does not undergo any modification nor does it become impure. The infinite consciousness which is unmodified and non-dual, can be realized by one in the self-luminous inner light (of awareness). It is pure and eternal, it is ever present and (being awareness) devoid of mind.

Consciousness alone is the reality in all forms (of existence) and all experiences. Action springs from thought, thought is the function of the mind, mind is conditioned consciousness, but consciousness is unconditioned!

Since the omnipresent infinite consciousness alone is present at all times, diversity is absurd and impossible. Belief in the existence of a goblin creates it. Belief in diversity establishes it. When the non-dual being is known, duality vanishes instantly.

That infinite consciousness alone is fit to be adored and worshipped. However, there is no use in inviting it for the worship; no mantra are of any use in its worship for it is immediate (closest, one's own self), and hence does not need to be invited. It is the omnipresent self of all.

The 'realization' of this infinite consciousness (which is totally effortless) is alone the best form of worship.

This infinite consciousness can be compared to the ultimate sub-atomic particle which yet hides within its heart the greatest of all mountains. It encompasses the span of countless epochs, but does not let go of a moment of time. It does nothing, yet it has fashioned the universe. Sustaining the entire universe, it does nothing at all. All substances are not different from it, yet it is not a substance; thought it is non-substantial, it pervades all substances.

The supreme being is formless, and yet the following five are its aspects: will, space, time, order (or destiny) and the cosmic unmanifest nature. It has countless powers or energies or potencies.
edit on 10/13/2014 by JimNasium because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
23
<< 40  41  42    44  45  46 >>

log in

join