Can I believe in Ghosts and not God?

When people say the either believe or do not believe in God.. the most striking aspect of that is certainly how their mind would define the very essence of the word, or concept itself. If you have the image of God being an illuminated, white robed human form with a beard... you definitively have a different experience than a person that thinks God represents the secrets of the universe, and why it is here.

For this reason, the very word GOD is insufficient to describe all of the possible definitions we could attribute to it, and to say that you believe in GOD, is an insufficient statement for anyone else, except for yourself.

The same logic would apply to spirits. Say the word to yourself and try and encapsulate in your mind, the image of what you define a spirit to be. If you think "Lost Souls"... you are in a total different realm of reasoning from one that might say "residual energy captured and replayed somehow in the environment."

These are personal definitions, and to debate among one another as to who is right or wrong is futile, because it will always be that way for you personally. There is only one way to really know, and that removes you completely from the entire debate anyway.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Where you are there you are and all is mind when on it... so hey bossing yourself around instead of trying to control others is a good start.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

you could explain ghosts away using Quantum Physics and very close parallel dimensions.

Imagine where a parallel universe that is extremely close to our, overlaps, this may explain why some people see apparitions etc.

Just my thoughts dribbling out...

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: zazzafrazz

BigBother: Where you are there you are and all is mind when on it... so hey bossing yourself around instead of trying to control others is a good start.

Where was your start point in the egress (going from a point of being traveling to an exit). One does not boss oneself around; it simply observes itself in silence.

originally posted by: BigBrotherDarkness
a reply to: zazzafrazz

BigBother: Where you are there you are and all is mind when on it... so hey bossing yourself around instead of trying to control others is a good start.

Where was your start point in the egress (going from a point of being traveling to an exit). One does not boss oneself around; in the the best format as an observer: "Conscientious" (no Ego impute) simply observes Itself in total silence in perfect focus.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
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Can one believe the biological entity can create or be attached to a non biological component? Does that mean a spirit/soul has to be controlled by a god figure?
What is a spirit or soul? How does a ghost differ to inspirit/heaven?

I have seen ghosts, so I'm not here to argue if they are real or not. More a discussion, why can't someone who doesn't believe in God be of the belief that a energy entity can exist without it's biological host?

What are thoughts if not energy? Where does that energy come from since according to the law of conservation of energy "energy can neither be created nor destroyed". So how is it possible for physical beings to create energy when according to physics it is not possible?

Our brains are physical, and thoughts are energy. How can something physical create energy when it can only be transformed? Such energy had to come from somewhere, so where did it come from?

Energy and our soul have existed and will continue to exist long after the physical body dies. Hence that energy/soul is not a creation from the physical world but it had to come from somewhere. Where did it come from?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

so where did it come from?

I don't know, but that doesn't mean I have to skip passed go and head straight to a god.

I'm ok with just saying "dunno"

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

I don't know, but that doesn't mean I have to skip passed go and head straight to a god.

I'm ok with just saying "dunno"

Well, that is always your choice to believe what you want. But since we know energy is essentially eternal, there must be something that affects the transformation of energy. Some outside force has to make it possible that the spiritual/energy becomes physical or transforms into other forms of energy.

We do know our thoughts can influence what happens around us, but what, or whose thoughts is influencing the constant transformation that occurs not only in the universe, but the multiverse?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

there must have been something that affects the transformation of energy.

maybe, but again, that may not be a god.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz


maybe, but again, that may not be a god.

Well, let's rephrase what we know so far.

Energy cannot be created and it can only be transformed by some outside influence. That influence itself must be more powerful than the energy it transforms.

Let me give you another example that shows the force(God) that controls not only the universe but the multiverse is highly intelligent.

We have done experiments which demonstrates that when electrons are watched by an observer, the mere act of watching affects the electron and the electron can behave as a wave when being watched by an observer. This denotes an intelligence behind electrons.
Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality

Even more recently the "double slit experiments" have shown that electrons change their state from particle to wave when they are being observed.

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Double pulse

Truscott's team found that when the second laser pulse was not applied, the probability of the atom being detected in each of the momentum states was 0.5, regardless of the phase lag between the two. However, application of the second pulse produced a distinct sine-wave interference pattern. When the waves were perfectly in phase on arrival at the beamsplitter, they interfered constructively, always entering the state formed by adding them. When the waves were in antiphase, however, they interfered destructively and were always found in the state formed by subtracting them. This means that accepting our classical intuition about particles travelling well-defined paths would indeed force us into accepting backward causation. "I can't prove that isn't what occurs," says Truscott, "But 99.999% of physicists would say that the measurement – i.e. whether the beamsplitter is in or out – brings the observable into reality, and at that point the particle decides whether to be a wave or a particle."

Indeed, the results of both Truscott and Aspect's experiments shows that a particle's wave or particle nature is most likely undefined until a measurement is made. The other less likely option would be that of backward causation – that the particle somehow has information from the future – but this involves sending a message faster than light, which is forbidden by the rules of relativity.
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physicsworld.com...

The double slit experiment shows that there is an intelligence behind these decisions made by electrons. What could be that intelligence that affects all electrons throughout the multiverse?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

What could be that intelligence that affects all electrons throughout the multiverse?

My dog thinks I am amazingly clever. maybe he thinks I am a god.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz

My dog thinks I am amazingly clever. maybe he thinks I am a god.

So you are claiming that humans are the intelligence affecting the multiverse? Not to mention the fact that you seem to believe to know what your dog is thinking.

You tried deflection with that joke, but the answer is clearly obvious, an outside intelligence more powerful than electrons and all energy we can observe in the multiverse must be the cause.

What about the "spooky action at a distance" referenced by Einstein.(Quantum Entanglement)

What is it that links entangled particles/waves such as photons that have been split from each other but react to the actions performed on one no matter the distance?

Isn't reaction made by choice made by an intelligent being? How can electrons, or any form of energy be intelligent and decide how to react?
What is such an intelligence that transcends space and time?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse


I'll say it a fourth time.

I don't know.

I don't need to make the leap that a different intelligence or control is a god.

Can I be any clearer?

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Do you not know, or do you not want to admit what is obvious?

You believe in ghosts. Ghosts can only exist if our souls are not fueled by the physical world, since ghosts exist after their physical bodies die. There has to be something else that fuels our souls then, a force that has intelligence and is powerful enough to fuel our souls.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

you want me to repeat it a fifth time?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

The Double Slit experiment isn't proof that something is intelligently propelling the trajectory of photons. It shows that quantum stuff reacts to "interactions" at a quantum level.

Light famously has two natures: it is wave-like, interfering in the same way that water ripples cross each other; it is also particle-like, carrying its energy in discrete bundles known as photons. If the experiment is sufficiently sensitive, the interference pattern appears grainy, where an individual photon appears on the screen, as you can see in the simulated projection pattern shown. In other words, single photons travel as though they are interfering with other photons, but is itself indivisible. Matter also has this dual character; interference of electrons and atoms has been observed experimentally. All of this is backed up by years of work.

What Does the New Double-Slit Experiment Actually Show?

As for the "spooky action", it just might be able to account for telepathy. Did you know that when a photon and electron collide a radio wave is formed, and two separate particles/waves fly off in opposite trajectories? If one of the those particles' trajectory is effected by another collision or gravity, or a double slit experiment, the other particle traveling the opposite trajectory will simultaneously react as well.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

you want me to repeat it a fifth time?

You made this thread did you not?... A thread to discuss that you don't think believing in ghosts and the afterlife should be considered as proof of God.

I pointed out using different examples that show some form of intelligence that encompasses every particle/wave not only in the universe, but the multiverse itself exists.

If our souls exist after we die then it is only obvious to conclude our bodies did not create our souls, but have existed even before our bodies were conceived. Where did our souls come from? How, and why did our souls enter our bodies? It must have been a conscious decision for our souls to enter our bodies. If our souls made that decision, why don't most of us remember?

In nature, and in the universe/multiverse itself for one form of energy to be transformed into something else an outside influence has to cause that transformation. Couldn't that intelligent force that we can observe be the same force causing other transformations throughout the multiverse?

I have not been asking you these questions for you to answer, but to ask yourself those same questions. Sometimes asking yourself these questions is more important than finding the answer. No one knows all the answers.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

If our souls made that decision, why don't most of us remember?

It's possible that it was our decision to forget. There are other possible reasons, you know?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Wow I think this the very first post of yours that I actually agree with.

There is no "god" required for the soul's continued existence after the physical body dies.
Ghosts and afterlives and NDEs and quantum entanglement and the laws of thermodynamics explain everything quite easily now. No "God" sitting somewhere judging everyone.

Our souls come here to Earth for a while, perhaps more than once. When our bodies expire, we (our souls) return to the realm of the ethereal collective. We are all fractals or divisions or outgrowths or expressions of the Unity. There is no requirement for a "God" judging and ordering souls about.

No. We are all connected. We cycle through various physical and metaphysical forms and experiences.

Eventually, our 'souls' are advanced enough to graduate and not have to go back to "school" on Earth. Nevertheless, after graduation, there are inservices and practica required as we move along.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You are like a dog with a bone. It is not your place to "make me ask the questions of myself". Ask yourself leave me out of it.

I'll say it again. Answered the first time.

I don't know.
I don't have to make the jump to divine if I don't know the answer to something, I don't fill in the gaps on unknown knowledge with "oh it must be god".

But please ask the same thing for a sixth time.....it's kinda weird.

You are doing it for your benefit not mine.
Grandstanding.