Can I believe in Ghosts and not God?

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Ghost147
Insane people tend to stereotype others as insane in order to compensate in relation to transference, that others are like them.

LMAO, Feel free to cite that claim, mr. 3rd-grade-psychology. Perhaps if I was wildly calling everyone insane and rejecting anything and everything that didn't abide by my own personal views, representing that I had a very warped sense of reality, then I would say that you may have a point. The fact is, however, not only have I not said "Everyone else is crazy but me", but I didn't even directly call you insane. What I actually stated is that speaking in third person is an extremely socially odd thing to do.

Another socially odd thing you seem to be doing is not actually answering a very simple question. At first it may have just been a mistake as to what you thought I was referring to; no issues there. But as your posts continued it was quite obvious you're just trying to lead the conversation in a particular direction by completely ignoring my actual question and trying to shift the conversation in a particular direction for whatever reason.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Ghost147
Being an individuals why is it impossible for you to be part of everything?

This has nothing to do with anything and is yet another attempt to derail from the question.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Ghost147
"In the first response I gave to you, all I asked was "who is 'we' " not "what are we". There is a substantial difference."

How so???

Who is 'we': refers to "who is the group you're referring to when you say 'We'. 'we' in this context denotes yourself as well as a group of people.

Who are we: would be asking a generalized description on what the human race is. 'we', used in this context denotes people in general.

When you stated "God as we understand it is...", you used 'we' in a way that denotes you and a group of people, not used in a way that denotes people in general.

a reply to: Ghost147


Dude you have issues.....good bye.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Ghost147
Dude you have issues.....good bye.

cya

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Well obviously I can, I can think what i want, 'cause I'm the boss of me.

The philosophy behind this, is that I think the premise of afterlife is unrelated to religion. For some reason I have had a fellow 'atheist' (I just usually say I don't believe in a Gods rather call myself an atheist) say I can't believe in one superstition, and not the other.

I think that traditionally people think religion has overseen the domain of death and spirit, but there is not steadfast rule that the two have to be related.

Can one believe the biological entity can create or be attached to a non biological component? Does that mean a spirit/soul has to be controlled by a god figure?
What is a spirit or soul? How does a ghost differ to inspirit/heaven?

I have seen ghosts, so I'm not here to argue if they are real or not. More a discussion, why can't someone who doesn't believe in God be of the belief that a energy entity can exist without it's biological host?

For us labels make a difference.

Human preoccupation with God is inexorably tied to our understanding of our surroundings. How we define them perhaps explains the limitations inherent to how we define consciousness, outside the comfort zone of the common senses.

Every time a human or animal thinks it makes a difference upon everything else created at the same time.

In the relation to current science I feel it is relevant to point out that how we define our current niche in space and time?

Has went from 40 billion in circumference to 80 billion in circumference since the middle 90s to today.

And everything seems interconnected in some way.

Back in the 90's I posted at the Sceptics forum that was specifically related to what was then the Skeptics Society.

It was interesting to find that many members did relate to Psi experiences as relevant to the human condition.

posted by: Kashai
a reply to: Ghost147

Kashai: A Concrete comprehension of God would relate to a Concrete comprehension of what is possible.

I agree; with a tiny disagreement. Do you define God as a Demi-god humans have invented for themselves or been subjected to by other higher beings pretense? Do you define God as the Absolute Law? If so the later is Absolute (unchanging). What you may be speaking of is its Arch Enemy; "Infinity" that knows no bounds to creative change. There is no confusion regarding each path. One is of the Law Absolute the other is Unbounded by such a law. The "Absolute Unbounded Oneness" as sometimes is called (GOD) is not correct. It should have been named by Tom Campbell: Absolute Bounded Oneness; it is bound by Law, Infinity is a criminal on the 'run rabbit run'!

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Can I believe in Ghosts and not God?

I don't see why not, as neither one has to be inclusive of the other.

Personally speaking, I look at it from a scientific perspective. I see ghosts/entities as a form of energy rather than some form of religious spiritual god-related thing.

Science tells us that energy never dies, it just changes form.

And science also tells us that everything is made up of energy (atoms). So when something dies, the energy doesn't die just the physical thing does. Thus, that energy must go elsewhere and/or changes form.

And since atoms hold memory (according to what science has been discovering these past few decades), then too must energy (which is made up of said atoms).



It all makes perfect scientific sense to me.

No need to toss a deity into the equation.


Just my $.02

a reply to: vethumanbeing


God presents that consciousness created reality and beyond that depending upon human interpretation presents that human conclusions are related to second guessing, perhaps.

What infinity is in not necessarily subject to human interpretation outside of human experience.

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: vethumanbeing
God presents that consciousness created reality and beyond that depending upon human interpretation presents that human conclusions are related to second guessing, perhaps. What infinity is in not necessarily subject to human interpretation outside of human experience.

You mean the Absolute came into conscious awareness and to know itself (prove it exists) created something it could relate to or its Creation eventually recognizes a creator therefor relate to IT as in worship?

a reply to: CranialSponge

That's pretty much my take on things

a reply to: vethumanbeing


We perceive reality in frames and so it is possible that so does consciousness beyond our capacity to comprehend.

Could the existence of consciousness in reality offer that reality is conscious?

Prove that anything can be random?

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: vethumanbeing
We perceive reality in frames and so it is possible that so does consciousness beyond our capacity to comprehend. Could the existence of consciousness in reality offer that reality is conscious?Prove that anything can be random?

We perceive reality as 'timed events' because we are physical creatures. Those existing in the non physical are not bound to linear time. Your conscious is not bound by body; and travels all of the time (that moment you daydreamed while driving; and missed a few miles of road travel). When you think are asleep at night but actually traveling other worlds/dimensions. You live in many places at the same time; just are not aware of it on this physical plane because you are consumed by traversing this odd and hostile environment and physically getting out of it alive (not happening). What you have done is built your soul/spirit *personality* that will get of this experience in tact.

a reply to: vethumanbeing


My point being "timed events" are infinite.

Moments are still moments despite distance or for that matter any particular frame.

originally posted by: Kashai a reply to: vethumanbeing
My point being "timed events" are infinite. Moments are still moments despite distance or for that matter any particular frame.

There is no time existing within the Infinite as is not aware of linear physical time.

a reply to: vethumanbeing


Moments are not linear in the strict sense, I am not speaking of moments as related to inertia.

a reply to: vethumanbeing


To be truly infinite
one must also be finite
so as to encompass all thngs

originally posted by: Kashai
a reply to: vethumanbeing
To be truly infinite one must also be finite so as to encompass all things.

That is quote from "Absolute Law's" play book; as wants to own or subjugate Infinity to it's will (absolute law; seven stipulations that describe all things). False Entrapment obvious.

If ghosts exist then a spirit realm exists. Yet, ghosts historically have never really done anything except replay the same nightmare they were foregoing while alive. Perhaps there is a way to tap into this spiritual realm while alive and conscious, rather than dead and (seemingly) unconscious. From the Spiritual texts I've read, such is God's intent for us, assuming our free will pursues righteousness - lest we be like the ghosts, dead and confused repeating our waking nightmares trapped in a spiritual limbo.

a reply to: vethumanbeing


You keep trying to suggest labels are relevant.

Music break....

Why can people say they've seen ghosts and few others will question them (at least, here on ATS), but if they say they've seen God people think they're certified bats# loony tunes?

I think that's just as appropriate a question when considering the topic. If it's ok for you to believe in your disembodied spirits, why would you find it surprising or even absurd that other people believe in theirs?

Speaking to the proverbial "you", of course.

originally posted by: cooperton
If ghosts exist then a spirit realm exists. Yet, ghosts historically have never really done anything except replay the same nightmare they were foregoing while alive. Perhaps there is a way to tap into this spiritual realm while alive and conscious, rather than dead and (seemingly) unconscious. From the Spiritual texts I've read, such is God's intent for us, assuming our free will pursues righteousness - lest we be like the ghosts, dead and confused repeating our waking nightmares trapped in a spiritual limbo.

You are correct with this assumption. They were incomplete (not a solid) upon death and are trapped between dimensions to torment others causative to a wrongful demise or just have no way to escape a karma others (angry family members past or other love relationships seeking retribution for bad past deeds perceived) may have entrapped them into. For some reason 'free will' has been sucked out of them and are now enslaved. Weak? or just manipulated by a circular system of negativity that targeted them powerful "Karma" as shills to perpetuate unhappiness and discontent forever (the wheel).