We want REASONS for God!!!!!

originally posted by: Vector99
I have no issues with your beliefs or choices. I just asked what makes them the right one? There are hundreds of gods to choose from.

Ultimately in the grand scheme of things we don't know for sure.

A correct choice today may in fact end up being totally wrong later on for all we know. Every choice we make is correct only for us at the moment we make it if we think it's correct.

Whether or not there is some truly "Correct Choice" we may not ever know for sure. It's debatable if there even is such a thing I suppose. Which is why subjective morality is correct for each subject as they choose it. It may not be correct for anyone else but if it is for them then it is.

originally posted by: mOjOm
a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm not clear one what you mean by internal and external morality. Objective and subjective I understand. Relative and Absolute I would also understand.

Internal I'm assuming you mean someone's personal choice. External I suppose could mean some other persons moral choices which they've communicated to you in some way.

Would those assumptions be correct??

External, what you are taught in relationship, family, friends or society's laws, internal well


I think Romans helps explain it

Romans 2
14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


I think the word conscience is a key, secular or non
The problem being that the conscience can be corrupted

originally posted by: Shiloh7
We want reasons for God? because looking at the state the world and humanity is in today there clearly is no God in charge of anything. (If he has the attributes the religious claim he has).

I don't see where any argument that a God exists whom has affected humanity is tenable simply because God hasn't affected the evolvement of every other species on this planet. Why in the planet's extraordinary long life should he suddenly pop up and start interfering after X billion years with just this one species - us???

Why?

Because marvel comic characters, batman and superman are not going to stop us destroying ourselves, why, because we dont know how totally helpless we are, we think we have it all together

The world is clearly broken and many here still deny that simple observation.
God will return when we have no choice...

a reply to: Raggedyman

Sure, I agree with that.

External being what others say is moral.

Internal being what you feel as moral.

Typically if the external matches your internal then you decide that's most likely moral.

I'd say that both could be corrupted though. Not just the internal but the external as well. Although corrupted from what exactly is somewhat undefined. What might seem like corrupted could also be corrected depending on one's own subjective experience.

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

So God not stopping people from killing each other is condoning it? Where's that human morality judgement you so easily place at God's feet? Isn't it man's fault for killing man?

Not stopping people? How about God sent two bears two maul forty two children in 2 Kings. Why? Because they were making fun of one of God's servants.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Beware the end is near. Repent and believe. As jimmy said the futures uncertain and the end is always near. There won't be any trumpets or crazy pestilence or a second coming. That prophecy failed already.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Vector99

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Vector99

what makes our (christian) choice correct, its our choice
what makes any of your choices correct, what will ever make your choices correct apart from hindsight

Do you propose to deny our choice, are we subject to you and others choice

I have no issues with your beliefs or choices. I just asked what makes them the right one? There are hundreds of gods to choose from.

Then the answer is simple, its our choice, we have made a conscious, hopefully learned decision based on all the facts, be they faith based or material

There are hundreds of gods, maybe millions. Christians chose the most unprobable, the God who went like a lamb to slaughter, preaching love, even on the cross.
Yep, it sounds like a foolish choice I agree

I mean really, Thor seems cooler

That did nothing to answer my question and yet somehow glorify your god.

I love religion, and it's people.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Here's something to chew on - you did no such thing.

originally posted by: donktheclown
a reply to: TerryDon79

Here's something to chew on - you did no such thing.

I did no such thing as what?

originally posted by: Joecanada11
a reply to: Raggedyman

Beware the end is near. Repent and believe. As jimmy said the futures uncertain and the end is always near. There won't be any trumpets or crazy pestilence or a second coming. That prophecy failed already.

No you cant be sure of that
You choose to believe that

"There wont" is not the truth, its a belief, its a faith statement.

Thousands of years of history has shown us that many things in the bible prophesied happened
www.youtube.com...

Of course you dont have to believe any of them, I choose to

a reply to: Vector99

Well I will answer it again

I chose based on what I think, its logical to me

Its not that difficult to understand

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: Vector99
I have no issues with your beliefs or choices. I just asked what makes them the right one? There are hundreds of gods to choose from.

Ultimately in the grand scheme of things we don't know for sure.

A correct choice today may in fact end up being totally wrong later on for all we know. Every choice we make is correct only for us at the moment we make it if we think it's correct.

Whether or not there is some truly "Correct Choice" we may not ever know for sure. It's debatable if there even is such a thing I suppose. Which is why subjective morality is correct for each subject as they choose it. It may not be correct for anyone else but if it is for them then it is.

I don't ever discriminate for that reason, ever. Your belief is your belief. I have an absence of a belief, or rather a differential belief. You would never agree with what i agree with if you are religious, it's not in the scope. My beliefs are founded by no external influence other than my own mind, and are not in agreement with really any religious belief at all. Religion is interesting to me only if you will actually talk about yourself and your reasons of belief, rather than what the religion may offer. I want to know why YOU do it. Maybe I'm probing too much, but hey, if you live for a god that only judges you on a 0-150 year basis to determine your eternity, you shouldn't have any worries confessing every reason why to love that god.

a reply to: Raggedyman

My biggest problem with the "end of days" theory is that it is used to ignore problems like climate change. It has fueled the beliefs of many dangerous cults throughout the years. It fuels fear. Can you tell me why God sent 2 bears to kill 42 children ? What possible reason would he have for that? It is scriptures like that and many others that makes my belief in the God of the bible fall face down.

a reply to: Raggedyman

As far as "many shall run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased" its a big stretch to presume that meant that we would fly and have the internet. Now if the book of Daniel said " men will fly and communicate from far away using machines" then the prophecy would actually hold some weight. Prophecy can be interpreted in many ways and people do it to suit their own agenda.

a reply to: Joecanada11

well stop asking others to tell you what is their truth, go research the truth

The Hebrew words used for Elisha’s detractors include the Hebrew words qatan, na’ar, and yeled, with Strong’s number 6996 (here translated “little”), Strong’s number 5288 (the “children” of verse 23), and Strong’s number 3206 (the “children” of verse 24), respectively. Qatan means small in quantity, size, number, age, status, or importance. Thus, we see it used to describe a cake, a cloud, a room, a city, and a finger, as well as the younger daughter of marriageable age in Laban’s household and the youngest son of Jacob, Benjamin, who was a grown man; this word even describes Saul (a very tall man, but low in status) at the time God anointed him king of Israel (1 Samuel 9:2, 15:17 )! Na’ar means a boy or girl, servant, or young man—it is a word that can cover a range of ages from infant to young adult. Yeled likewise means a boy, child, son, or young man—essentially, someone’s offspring.

WE CAN ALREADY SEE THE PHRASE “LITTLE CHILD” BEING USED...TO REFER TO THE RELATIVE YOUTH OR IMMATURITY OF GROWN MEN.
In seeing how these words are used throughout the Old Testament, we see that “little child” (qatan na’ar) is used to describe the young rebel Hadad the Edomite (1 Kings 11:14, 17) who fled Solomon’s kingdom and married pharaoh’s sister-in-law. The combination is also used by Solomon to refer to himself when he prayed for wisdom after becoming king (1 Kings 3:7). Thus, we can already see the phrase “little child” being used by the King James translators to refer to the relative youth or immaturity of grown men.
answersingenesis.org...

carm.org...

www.christiantoday.com...

and finally tried and trusted Landover Baptist for their balanced and always seamless view

www.landoverbaptist.org...

a reply to: Joecanada11

Maybe to you now, back then it would have sounded very unusual.

Prophecy can be interpreted in many ways and people deny it to suit their own agenda.

originally posted by: Joecanada11

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

So God not stopping people from killing each other is condoning it? Where's that human morality judgement you so easily place at God's feet? Isn't it man's fault for killing man?

Not stopping people? How about God sent two bears two maul forty two children in 2 Kings. Why? Because they were making fun of one of God's servants.

Source: www.biblegateway.com...

Elisha Is Jeered

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys.

It means don't mess with God's prophets. And it said mauled, not killed. For all we know they hurt themselves running away. If I were Elisha I would've done the same. Respect, something lacking in society. And consequences, the understanding of which is also lacking in society. I consider this just desserts.

STM

a reply to: seentoomuch

More justification for absolutely horrible behavior. That is not just deserts. If someone gives you the finger do you have the right to slash them with a machete? Because that is basically what you are saying. Ridiculous. No matter how profoundly ridiculous the bible is you will justify the horrible things done in "gods" name. Oh and why did he stop smiting those who don't believe in him anymore ? Because he isn't real. It's pretty simple.

a reply to: Joecanada11

A scratch from a bear for a large group of youths chasing and yelling at an old man is in my book just desserts. "Respect for your elders" or is that something as alien to you as it was for them?

STM

originally posted by: seentoomuch
a reply to: Joecanada11

A scratch from a bear for a large group of youths chasing and yelling at an old man is in my book just desserts. "Respect for your elders" or is that something alien to you as it was for them?

Of course I respect my elders. But it doesn't say the bears scratched them. It says mauled. The definition of maul is much different than a scratch.

STM