We want REASONS for God!!!!!

Alright to often this questions is asked and restated over and over. So I am going to list the order in arguments need to be understood in order to see what type of God exists.

The first question why does their need to be a God and how do you know what God is like?
Note: All of the following are deductive arguments. This is not arguing for God as some type of scientific explanation.
1. The Moral Argument
2. Kalam Cosmological Argument/leibnizian cosmological argument(I put both because these argue from different perspectives on time Kalam is on A theory and Leibnizian is on B theory)
3. Ontological Argument


If we cannot agree on these we will never make it to the second question of, why the Christian God?

4. Historical Evidence for Christ and his Resurrection.
5. All Attributes of above arguments are attributed to the Christian God.

So I ask that when you reply only chose 1 of the first 3 points to start on and we will go from their. If we haven't talked about the first question I will ignore anything on the second question as one must come before the other.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I'll play just for fun...

1. The moral arguement: IF the "Christian" God is the same as the one in the OT... Said entity doesn't have the slightest clue what morality is...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I'll have to go with the moral argument.

How can god be considered a moral path when he killed millions of people and animals including individual people?

How could god expect humans to be moral if, as humans, we tend to follow by example?

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
Actually, before you can get to the first question you must define "God/god".

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

I'll bite on "how do you know what God is like?"

It's my favorite ontological issue of all time.

Now, I usually ask Christians three questions, as the following questions are typically
held to be true:

1) Do you believe that God is omniscient?
2) Do you believe that God is omnipotent?
3) Do you believe that God is omnipresent?

Typically Christians, and in fact most people answer Yes! to all 3.

So then i ask this final question:

So if God wanted to lie to you, you'd have no way of knowing that you were being lied to?

If they say yes,which is the honest answer based upon the 3 questions, then they have demonstrated
that it's impossible to know *ANYTHING" about God at all.

If they say no, then they are inferring that they are MORE powerful than God, which by definition
they can't be.

So unless your God is a weak wimp, there is no point in having an opinion about God, as you may
be being lied to.. and IF God is a weak wimp, then that's not a "God" at all.

So by using common beliefs held by nearly any religious person, there is no point making any
statements about God whatsoever.

Kev

I'm not gonna say what side of the argument I'm on but I will state this. Why do people strive to attribute human morality to God? Why is bone cancer in a child wrong? Because we as humans feel empathy. Does that mean its wrong to God? Why do humans apply a human moral code to a being that is supposedly omnipotent and then judge said God by that morality?

a reply to: In4ormant

Wouldn't having a need for this "god's" supposed "creation" to do his dirty work for him point to a lack of omnipotence?

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Odd line of questions there.

If your mother wanted to lie to you without you knowing could she? Sure

Does that mean you don't know anything about her? Nope

Not sure your line of questioning settles anything for anyone.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
'..............

So by using common beliefs held by nearly any religious person, there is no point making any
statements about God whatsoever.

Kev

Thanks Kev

You succinctly encapsulated the futility of this argument.

a reply to: Akragon

Why is it dirty? Because you feel it is?

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb
Actually, before you can get to the first question you must define "God/god".

Precisely .....defining terms is the most significant term of a true argument and the fact is the op(nor anyone else) cannot provide a definition of the creator God because they know nothing of a creator God therefore their argument is futile(once again).

God is a mystery. And the mystery of God will always exist. Therefore the proof of God will never exist.

Some will believe the mystery itself is proof of his existence. While others will say the fact that he's a mystery proves he doesn't exist.

But neither proof is complete. So God's very existence, or lack thereof, is contained in the conundrum of his existence. And so it shall always be.

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

Why is it dirty? Because you feel it is?

Well said entity demonstrated he could simply nuke an entire area if he/she/it choose to... but instead he sends his "people" to slaughter entire societies...

IF this entity was so omnipotent he could have just snapped his fingers and made the issue disappear... but from what we can clearly see he/she/it likes blood... craves it... even demands it

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Poor assumption in my opinion

Look at it from Gods perspective

Why the need for humanity?
Why create them
Why educate them
Why give them sovereignty over their own lives

Why punish them
Why save them

Whats Gods plan

Its interesting how people claim morality and immorality from their own perspective, sort of like they think their opinion invalidates Gods
Maybe they are the ones without a clue

a reply to: Akragon

Again. You give reasons and motive for human actions to a being that supposedly created everything. Human nature is not God's nature. You attesting that it is and then condemning it doesn't make it true.

a reply to: Rex282

Thats not entirely true, we define the Christian God in Jesus.
Many other points are revealed in scripture, enough for us to see and understand who and what motivates God

He has made it very clear

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

Again. You give reasons and motive for human actions to a being that supposedly created everything. Human nature is not God's nature. You attesting that it is and then condemning it doesn't make it true.

that is the typical arguement... We don't know Gods nature... HE's God he can do what he wants

Though its pretty sad when a pathetic human's morality is superior to something that considers itself God

An entity that is against "murder" unless it suits his own purposes...

All hail...

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Why is your god the right one? There are several, what makes YOUR personal one correct?

originally posted by: In4ormant
a reply to: Akragon

Why is it dirty? Because you feel it is?

or
Romans 2
14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.

you feel its dirty because you know its wrong

originally posted by: In4ormant
I'm not gonna say what side of the argument I'm on but I will state this. Why do people strive to attribute human morality to God? Why is bone cancer in a child wrong? Because we as humans feel empathy. Does that mean its wrong to God? Why do humans apply a human moral code to a being that is supposedly omnipotent and then judge said God by that morality?

1. Because allegedly, morality came from god. Does he not practice what he preaches?
2. Because the bible itself places "human morality" and emotions/feelings on god in many places.