Why don't we just opt out of our government and stop paying taxes?

I wonder how many here want to quit paying taxes but still want to use all the basic things that taxes pay for...

Here is a good one for you Maryland yard sale tax and permits

Below is a basic outline of yard sale regulations taken from the following two ordinances which affect yard sales:
A free permit must be obtained from the police department. Only two permits allowed for a twelve (12) month period. Each permit is only good for two (2) consecutive days. Items for sale must be moved inside at dusk.
Penalties and fines can be levied for conducting a yard sale without a permit.
One sign no larger than four (4) square feet can be placed on the lot of the yard sale. One sign no larger than four (4) square feet can be placed on private property, with written permission of the property owner, at the intersection of the street which the yard sale is taking place on.
Only two (2) total yard sale signs are allowed.
Signs must be removed at the completion of the yard sale.
No signs shall be placed on the public right-of-way. Any signs placed on the right-of-way can and will be removed.

Yep that's right folks in the State of MD you have to have a permit to hold a yard sale and I believe you have to pay taxes on any profits made essentially taxing an item that was already taxed and paid for. There was also a rain tax for a while which required home owner's to pay yearly taxes based on some formula or another for total average rain fall x the square footage of your roof but that one pissed a lot of people off and got repealed fairly quickly.

a reply to: Sremmos80

You mean like roads and fresh water?

Naah, these libertarian badasses drive on broken glass and drink rabbit piss (it's sterile!).

They don't need no stinkin' roads....

a reply to: onequestion

chaos?

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: pikestaff
Most of the rest of the world pays it taxes at source, tax taken by the firm the worker works at, so the workers paycheque is pay, less taxes.

same in the US (actually, the employer pays a payroll tax equal to the employee's income tax).
then you have to file paperwork with uncle sam to claim all your deductions and whatnot (aka: pork that allow people with a bunch of kids and corporations to pay no taxes). If you don't file this paperwork, you get fined more money and can go to prison. Not to mention the discomfort of dealing with the cold, stone slab known as the IRS.

This one (payroll tax) seems unfair; but it is a sneaky way to get around the many loopholes Corporations enjoy. The City of Chicago also requires an additional "head Tax" (a tax charged to businesses that employ actual Human Beings).

a reply to: onequestion
"Why not opt out of paying taxes"
Conspiracy theory: members of Obama's cabinet floated a scenario that included; Lets get "We the people' to stop paying their mortgages.

a reply to: Sremmos80

I gladly pay my local taxes, I suppose the sense of community makes it's worth while for me. I can see how my money is being used, and there is some accountability when it is squandered or mismanaged. Those Federal taxes are a whole other matter. My first gripe would be the amount of tax payer funds that are being sucked into the military complex. I prefer not to contribute to death and mayhem.

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: Rocker2013

It's mind-numbingly stupid that so many people seem to think life is so awful, so terrible!

I wonder what the family that lives under the bombs that your tax dollars buy would say.

So your belief is that because our governments do some things most of us do not agree with, we should all abandon civilization entirely and revert to a new stone age?
Yeah, that makes so much sense.

a reply to: Rocker2013

We are headed that way weather we want it or not.

Well most of us are except the elite, they will be living on Elysium.

originally posted by: intrptr
Crap. Limited government is the system we are supposed to have under the constitution.

Which version of the Constitution are you reading?
The one before all the amendments and legal changes created over time to give you the society you now live in and enjoy, by any chance?

The Constitution wavers are a lot like religious fundamentalists, they seem to think time should stop at their point of choice and nothing thereafter should exist - unless a specific change suits them of course, then it's suddenly great that the law was changed or the constitution adjusted.

In case you hadn't noticed, we don't live in 1787. I take it you do understand that, right?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
Our rights have become nothing more than privileges granted by the state.

But you probably don't see that. Some birds must like living in a cage.

I prefer living in reality, one where I understand through everyday existence that I'm actually NOT under slavery, that I'm NOT being oppressed, that my rights ARE in fact stronger now than they have ever been throughout Human history.

But you obviously don't see that. Some paranoid delusional people love nothing more than to think the "evil commie government" is out to kill them.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: gladtobehere

The beat part of the sovereign citizen movement is that they take good olé greenbacks to get you all set up. Pretty ironic to me. Talking about how they want to separate from the is gov but will gladly take its currency.

Oh I especially love that the Bundy clan spent weeks screaming about the big bad gubmint, then it was revealed that Ammon took a massive loan out, and he wanted government assistance in court!

And of course, just like all the selfish posters here who want everything while paying nothing back, the Bundy clan were quite happy to use all that government infrastructure, the roads, the police, the legal system and the banks to their advantage as and when they wanted.

These people do not want to be "free from the oppressors" they imagine a government formed by a society to be, they're just moochers who want everything for nothing - or (as I believe is the case with many here in this thread) are simply teenagers who don't understand the first thing about how a society works.

Taxes are 100% necessary. There are great benefits paying taxes. Roads, schools, water, police force, military, ect. The problems with the tax money is on those who allocate it. Our ELECTED government is in charge of how the tax dollars are allocated.

We can debate on who pays what levels of taxes... Should the rich pay more? A flat tax? Should the rich 'job makers' get a break so they can reinvest that money making more jobs? Very soon in the debate you get into the fundamentals of the two major political parties. The different parties are basically a negotiation into the price point and amount of service received by our tax dollars.

Ultimately the problem is with the bankers. A huge percentage of our taxes is just to pay the finance charges on our national debt. It isn't 'our' or 'your' money or our govenment's money, it ALL belongs to the Federal Reserve. Money is just out on loan to us and our government from the FED.

If you don't pay taxes you have no right to protection from police when somebody comes and steals your stuff. You can't use the roads paid for using expensive eminent domain laws and maintained by tax dollars. The benefits from technology created by NASA or other programs should be off limits to you. Good luck defending yourself from a group of lawless rebels coming to steal your land and your life.

VOTE! That is how you influence how your taxes are spent. Don't be a thief who steals what everybody else is paying for.

a reply to: Sremmos80

I wonder how many of those people through simply wish to see there tax dollars be spent on things that actually improve and sustain the nation rather than new toys for the military so America can police the world?

Taxes are obviously a necessary evil but spending 5 billion dollars on new Submarines or $339 million dollars on F-22s Raptors(per unit) while a significant proportion of the population is living bellow the bread line, earning minimum wages, unemployed or addicted to class A substances seems rather stupid.

The distribution of wealth in our respective nations is simply out of control. How come Google, Starbucks, and a hell of a few other giants of the industry's seem to get away with paying minimum taxes yet the average Joe get hit for the full amount?

originally posted by: Sremmos80
I wonder how many here want to quit paying taxes but still want to use all the basic things that taxes pay for...

Every single one of them.
That's the core of what these people believe, it's a mess of ignorance, selfishness and ideology all rolled into one.

It's ignorance because they refuse to even begin to understand why these systems were created BY CITIZENS to form a more prosperous nation, a more secure nation, a nation which has become the most powerful nation the world has ever known. The idea that these people imagine they are being "oppressed" really makes me angry, while they sit there in their parents comfortable house, eating whenever they're hungry, with water delivered on demand, electricity 24/7, going to school (or work) on safe roads, in their comfortable cars, spending money on pointless things millions of people in this world could only dream of owning.

It's selfish because these people refuse to accept that they should pay back into their society, they imagine that they should be permitted to use everything good that comes from our societies while hoarding all their own successes and denying anyone else any assistance at all. They imagine that everyone out there claiming any kind of assistance is "scum", they imagine that anyone needing assistance from the government is just lazy, they imagine that everything would be perfectly fine if those people just weren't given any assistance and were therefore "forced" into gaining employment (which in many places doesn't exist, or isn't possible).
They're so selective too. If you say to them "what about veterans?" they'll agree that they should be helped. Then you say "what about sick kids?" they'll agree they should be helped. "What about the elderly?" they'll agree... Take various groups on their own and they will agree that the social programs in place are right and just (except if it's THEM having to contribute to it). The reality is that you could probably pick out thousands of things tax revenues pay for, investigate each one individually and show what life would be like without it, and they would ultimately change their minds - but many of them would still claim that it's just not fair that THEY have to contribute, everyone ELSE should.

It's Ideology because these people have formed almost a cult around these ignorant, selfish beliefs. It almost doesn't matter what common sense arguments and debates you have with these people, they will ultimately reject all reason and carry on preaching their "religion" as if new information wasn't just introduced. You can talk logically to these people for days and show them how they are misguided until you're blue in the face, they'll even admit defeat on individual points in some case, but STILL they somehow ignore all those points and go back to reading from their "Pocket Constitution" written by a conspiracy theorist.

Talk about damn PRIVILEGE. They seem to think all of this is "oppression", that it's all somehow so unfair, and that it just appeared through some imagined invasion of an enemy. All of this was created through a community effort over hundreds of years, to make society what it is.

And these people have the gall to complain about how "oppressed" they are while millions of people around the world barely have a pot to p*ss in!

These people need to grow the f up, if they're adults they should be ashamed of themselves.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Rocker2013

We are headed that way weather we want it or not.

Well most of us are except the elite, they will be living on Elysium.

I'm feeling like an old man now.
I remember hearing this ten years ago, and every year since. I'm still waiting for that sky to fall, for the FEMA camps to open, for the rogue President to declare Martial Law, for the mass seizing of guns, for the genocide you all imagine is about to happen... any... moment... now.

Some people are pessimists in the extreme and imagine life to be so terribly awful, while fapping over the idea that it's about to get worse.

Others are more intelligent and understand that we actually live in a great time of massive scientific development and discovery, that history was a hell of a lot worse, and that if we go by what's happened before society is actually getting better.

Oh, and it's whether, not weather.

a reply to: Rocker2013

The one before all the amendments and legal changes created over time to give you the society you now live in and enjoy, by any chance?

Those 'changes' are the sneaky return of the central power creeps. They love to change everything back to they rule and we serve.

The idea of limited government is born of the totalitarian road they came from in Europe and the way we are heading now. Placing limitations prevents the control freaks form absconding power to themselves.

If all your updating and modernization brought you to this endless road of war and debt then you haven't learned a thing in whatever class you took on the Constitution, letter and spirit.

a reply to: Rocker2013

I remember hearing this ten years ago, and every year since. I'm still waiting for that sky to fall, for the FEMA camps to open, for the rogue President to declare Martial Law, for the mass seizing of guns, for the genocide you all imagine is about to happen… any... moment... now.

Thats because you haven't noticed the frog pond temperature rising slowly during that time. You probably helped write the Patriot Act and form the Department of Homeland Security (Secret State Police) to 'watch' over all of us.

Ribit

a reply to: onequestion

Sure guy. We'll all pick up the check so you can use the roads for free and don't worry, we got your kids k-12 covered too. All your basic services...we got all that just for you. We'll leave a little jar out so you can gracefully and charitably toss a few bits of coin in whenever your pockets are feeling inconveniently heavy.

The ignorance being displayed in this thread is typical of those who follow the "freeman/sovereign" ideology.

You can declare yourself to no longer be a citizen of the US all you want but nobody is obligated to pay any attention to your declaration. There is a specific process to be followed in order to renounce your citizenship and you can't do it while being within the territory of the 50 states that comprise the United States of America. Not being a citizen of the US does not mean you don't have to pay taxes on income earned working within the US. Just ask anyone who works in the US but is a citizen of a country other than the US.

Federal income tax is voluntary but not in the sense of you being able to choose whether or not you are going to pay it. Those who believe this and other tax protester stuff might want to read the Tax Protester FAQ. Many of the "gurus" of the tax protester movement and their followers have found their arguments for not having to pay tax rejected multiple times by the courts and not because the courts are corrupt. Just look how well Pete Hendrickson and the followers of his "Cracking the Code" have actually done.

Most "freeman/sovereign" types' idea of research is finding a website that says what they want to hear and parroting it without ever bothering to confirm that what the site claims is accurate. This is especially true of those claiming that one does not need a driver's licence in order to operate an automobile on public roads if one is not engaged in commerce or that it is a violation of their right to travel.