Why don't we just opt out of our government and stop paying taxes?

originally posted by: intrptr
What you call civilization is really a form of enslavement to the state.

What you call "enslavement to the state" is really nothing more than the system we have spent hundreds of years creating for the betterment of all.
You seem to be of the mindset that society was somehow "forced" on us, as if your government somehow invaded and made you submit to the society we now live in.

Of course, sane and rational people understand that our system of government and social structure was created BY US.
Want to know what a nation looks like without adequate systems in place to provide for our society? Check out Pakistan, or parts of India, or Yemen, or Zimbabwe, or Nigeria, or Uganda...

Better still, try reading up on some history and get a good look at what your nation was like before all these laws and taxes the majority contribute to.

It's mind-numbingly stupid that so many people seem to think life is so awful, so terrible!

Woe is me! The horrible country we live in! With all our rights and freedoms!
TYRANNY!

a reply to: Rocker2013

It's mind-numbingly stupid that so many people seem to think life is so awful, so terrible!

I wonder what the family that lives under the bombs that your tax dollars buy would say.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

You'd still have to pay that independent teacher for the schooling; "Bob" to repair the potholes in your road; the out of work street sweeper, the tree trimmer, and the mail man that live on your street. But instead of everyone in the community paying a small fee and pooling resources, you'd all have to pay individually higher fees.

Are you kidding , without the bureaucracy, permits and regulation it will cost a lot less. Bb will do a better job, too, because if he doesn't we'll fire him and hire joe. Joe used to work for government road crews and knows how to do it right.

Your forgoing the obvious benefits of doing things locally, hiring people locally removes the middle men, the bureaucrats and keeps the money in the hood. When people screw up, we can complain, they are our neighbors.

Try complaining to Washington about your screwed up infrastructure, education or justice system.

They are all fired… oh, never mind.

a reply to: Rocker2013

What you call "enslavement to the state" is really nothing more than the system we have spent hundreds of years creating for the betterment of all.

Crap. Limited government is the system we are supposed to have under the constitution.

Limited to coining 'money' (and I said coin), providing for the common defense and paying for that by raising money from tariffs on imported goods.

Only…

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
If you like going to jail for tax evasion, then sure. Or I guess you prefer to live as a fugitive? If you dislike our governments so much, why stay here? Because State, local, and federal governments also collect taxes.

Either way, I'm guessing you don't understand that paying taxes is one of the duties that comes with being a citizen of a country. I could go into detail on this but it seems both pointless & obvious. You might as well ask "Why don't we just opt out of our government and not pull over when police flag us down?".

While you are right about it not being worth the jail time to pull the stunt, its important to note the following:

- Nationalism is akin to racism, as you don't choose the nation you are born into
- I did not ask to be a citizen of a nation, or to not be a feral human. Perhaps I like it more this way, perhaps not. A choice was not made. I owe nothing to a nation.

The way I see it: the government exists for us. We don't exist for the government. A nation is not its government, a nation is its people. Thus, taxes that go to support a government, and not a people, are unjust.

In theory, what the OP suggests is actually appropriate. In practice....we all know how that works. Just ask Wesley Snipes or Wilie Nelson.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Our rights have become nothing more than privileges granted by the state.

But you probably don't see that. Some birds must like living in a cage.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Whats not to like? All the seed you can eat, and you have that little friend in the mirror to fight with.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I'm voting for the person who will give me a bigger cage!

Most of the rest of the world pays it taxes at source, tax taken by the firm the worker works at, so the workers paycheque is pay, less taxes.

originally posted by: pikestaff
Most of the rest of the world pays it taxes at source, tax taken by the firm the worker works at, so the workers paycheque is pay, less taxes.

same in the US (actually, the employer pays a payroll tax equal to the employee's income tax).

then you have to file paperwork with uncle sam to claim all your deductions and whatnot (aka: pork that allow people with a bunch of kids and corporations to pay no taxes). If you don't file this paperwork, you get fined more money and can go to prison. Not to mention the discomfort of dealing with the cold, stone slab known as the IRS.

originally posted by: tadaman
a reply to: onequestion

It would have to be a state wide initiative. The state government would have to be overthrown by elements within it loyal to the idea. After one state, I think a dozen would follow. If they managed to hold out for a month, it would catch on.

This would be a start but as you said the movement would have to "hold out" long enough for others to join. I'm afraid in that scenario the State Militia or armed citizens would have to protect the leadership of such an effort. After all history shows us that new countries are formed entirely when the people break away from paying taxes.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
If you like going to jail for tax evasion, then sure. Or I guess you prefer to live as a fugitive? If you dislike our governments so much, why stay here? Because State, local, and federal governments also collect taxes.

Either way, I'm guessing you don't understand that paying taxes is one of the duties that comes with being a citizen of a country. I could go into detail on this but it seems both pointless & obvious. You might as well ask "Why don't we just opt out of our government and not pull over when police flag us down?".

Either way, I'm guessing you don't understand that paying taxes is one of the duties that comes with being a citizen of a country.

Great. Go tell that to the 47% who pay no income taxes. I have no problem paying taxes. The problem is that government from my local village up to the Feds is pissing away my money. There is zero accountability and incentive for government to spend money wisely - particularly when they can just get the fed to print more money. Combine that with their power of the gun to confiscate earnings and then by votes from other segments of the population by lowering their taxes is just criminal.

Ok. You sweep streets from Maine to Connecticut on Mondays. Fix bridges in that area on Tue and Weds. Report to DC Thursday morning for further assignment. Hey someone has to take up the slack.

Me? I'll be running the banks. Cha ching.

a reply to: gladtobehere

The beat part of the sovereign citizen movement is that they take good olé greenbacks to get you all set up. Pretty ironic to me. Talking about how they want to separate from the is gov but will gladly take its currency.

My taxes are deducted from my check long before I get it. Not sure how I could avoid paying them.

OK, so get rid of all taxes, basically remove government (since there would be no money) and let everyone do their thing without the horrors of the government, huh?

It would take approximately one day before the first power hungry militias began to take everything you had, what with no military or police force to worry about. The country would turn into various factions of warring entities fighting to reinstate the taxes you hate so much (probably at a much higher rate) and with a more military run system than the, in reality, incredible country full of freedoms you enjoy every day.

originally posted by: jjkenobi
My taxes are deducted from my check long before I get it. Not sure how I could avoid paying them.

Ever sell something on EBay?

How about win something on lottery? Has your job ever given you a Christmas ham (worth more than $20)?

Its not hard to run afoul of our tax laws. I actually think the majority of the way tax laws are written is to make it easier to go after organized crime.

a reply to: onequestion

I mean seriously. They clearly are being run totally corrupt by foreign banking cartels from Asia and Mexico and Europe.

I mean seriously.

Look at those words on fiat currency.

FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE.

This note is legal tender for ALL debts,public and private.

If ya want hate the 'bankers' hate the FEDERAL RESERVE.

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
If you like going to jail for tax evasion, then sure. Or I guess you prefer to live as a fugitive? If you dislike our governments so much, why stay here? Because State, local, and federal governments also collect taxes.

Either way, I'm guessing you don't understand that paying taxes is one of the duties that comes with being a citizen of a country. I could go into detail on this but it seems both pointless & obvious. You might as well ask "Why don't we just opt out of our government and not pull over when police flag us down?".

You are clearly displaying a lack of understanding of the tax code and monetary policies. Typical collage education rhetoric. We are not required to pay federal taxes period! Look it up!!! No where in the thousands of pages of our tax code does it say "required" they use statements like "mandatory volunteerism". Because saying citizens are "required" to pay federal taxes would be unconstitutional. It's actually one of the main principles this country was founded on. Limited taxes and government oversight.

America was financially stable before the federal reserve act and the creation of the IRS. We payed no federal taxes before 1910. State taxes are used to pay for our roads and schools and other entities needed. Do you have any idea where your federal taxes go? Defense spending and to pay the national debt, that's about it.... 2 things I'd rather opt out of myself. But people like you think it's perfectly acceptable to make people pay a unjust tax down the barrel of a gun. Read "The creature from Jekyll island" and get educated rather than accosting someone over something you yourself are not very versed in.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

I read that source. Those are really small countries and islands except for the UAE. As a non religious woman I would not want to live there.