Trump call to punish women for abortions

a reply to: ladyvalkyrie

thanks for the links, I just wanted to post a few quotes from one of them to make a point...

A critically ill, 27-year-old Washington D.C. woman was 26 weeks pregnant when a judge ordered her to have a Cesarean section. He did so with the understanding that the procedure would very likely kill her. It did. The baby died as well.

A Florida woman “was held prisoner at a hospital to prevent her from going home while she appeared to be experiencing a miscarriage. She was forced to undergo a Cesarean.” She still lost the baby, and her two small children at home were left without her while she was held. A state court ruled that this detention was wrong, although it would have been fine if she was further along in her pregnancy.

Another Florida woman who went into labor at home was picked up by a sheriff, driven to the hospital and forced to have a Cesarean against her will. She filed suit, and the court concluded that the woman’s personal constitutional rights “clearly did not outweigh the interests of the State of Florida in preserving the life of the unborn child.”

from ladyvalkyrie's Exhibits D-J

this quote right here:

and the court concluded that the woman’s personal constitutional rights “clearly did not outweigh the interests of the State of Florida in preserving the life of the unborn child.

shows why the laws are so so, it lower's the women rights down to a secondary level, making her subservient to something living inside her body who's rights overshadow her own..

and her two small children at home were left without her while she was held

her living, breathing born children's right's and safety secondary to the rights of the unborn...

He did so with the understanding that the procedure would very likely kill her. It did. The baby died as well.

her own right to life even is overshadowed by the unborn's right!!!!

some may protest loudly about how they would willingly give up their life if it would give their unborn child a chance to life, and that is fine, you are free to sacrifice your life, there is no law stopping you. but when you force a women to sacrifice her life for that unborn child, well, what you have done is much closer to murder than a first trimester abortion is!!! She is a living human being, with many people who will go through the grieving process, she may have children who she was the only one they could count on for their needs, the pain extends out so much further with her loss than that of an unborn fetus!

And, well, I have to ask, how many fathers are sitting around getting disability payments denying surgeries that might restore their health? I know my husband did for years although he still worked his job everyday. do we force medical care on fathers because we think it might improve their ability to earn more money and better support those kids??? after all if mom's job of going through pregnancy and delivering a healthy baby is so darned important that we will kill her to try to get that healthy baby, shouldn't his job of providing funds for that child when it's born be just as important?

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: InTheLight
a reply to: Annee

I am also not anti-adoption nor pro-abortion...very complex social issue, I must say.

No one is pro abortion.

People are Pro Choice. The right of the woman to make a choice.

I think even this is starting to change. Whilst I would assume a minority, a women recently posted a video of her abortion online and another posted a video about how wonderful the experience was. Society gets sicker by the day, all in the name of 'what's right for me'.

There are always extremists.

Doesn't matter the subject.

a reply to: UKTruth

I think he is like a lot of people who do not really care about an issue until it hits them personally. He has said...

The billionaire businessman reiterated his support for abortion exceptions in the cases of rape, incest or threat to the life of the mother. “Let me be clear — I am pro-life,” Trump wrote. “I support that position with exceptions allowed for rape, incest or the life of the mother being at risk.

“I did not always hold this position, but I had a significant personal experience that brought the precious gift of life into perspective for me,” he added.

I am thinking this is a lot more personal than an anecdotal story. He loves his children. I think maybe his reason for his change is based, again, on a very personal experience. I know many people who have changed from one side to another based on a personal experience.

It happens. That is why this debate is sooooo difficult like he has said. Abortion really has not part in the oval office unless it would be time for you to appoint SCOTUS and then maybe there would be some 'discussion' or fear but bottom line there are too many other things we should be worrying about then repealing abortions. That is not causing the economy to tank....

Bottom line is that Abortion truly should not be a topic for picking a president and I have always thought it was a fringe issue simply to fire up the base...and it works.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: UKTruth

I think he is like a lot of people who do not really care about an issue until it hits them personally. He has said...

I don't think he cares at all.

I think he was just going for votes from the anti-abortion crowd.

And it backfired.

a reply to: matafuchs

Bottom line is that Abortion truly should not be a topic for picking a president and I have always thought it was a fringe issue simply to fire up the base...and it works.

Fringe issue?

No it isn't....abortion is the issue that determines if you are a true conservative or not. That's precisely why Trump made that dumbass statement; to solidify his standing with Christian conservatives.

He didn't anticipate the backlash and has now lost even more credibility. His campaign managers are going to lose the election for Trump if they don't become more moderate. Without women and minorities he's DOA!!! Along with the Republicans....I work for our local GOP media group; they are just about to write off this election that Trump has trashed.

Perhaps that's his intention....you can't just disregard his past political affiliations unless you are incredibly naive....

a reply to: olaru12

Yes. This is a fringe issue. Being Pro-Life does not make you conservative. It is time for this argument to not be in the forefront of the person who would lead this nation. The Federal Government should not have the ability to make judgement on it to begin with. What, if my president is Pro- choice we are less likely to go to war? Balance a budget?

Fringe Issue meaning a capture voter issue. Personally, I think it is ignorant to vote for someone based on their view on abortion.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: olaru12

Yes. This is a fringe issue. Being Pro-Life does not make you conservative. It is time for this argument to not be in the forefront of the person who would lead this nation. The Federal Government should not have the ability to make judgement on it to begin with. What, if my president is Pro- choice we are less likely to go to war? Balance a budget?

Fringe Issue meaning a capture voter issue. Personally, I think it is ignorant to vote for someone based on their view on abortion.

If it's a fringe issue; why do so many conservative groups make it the hot button issue during any and all elections. And if they continue to make it the determining factor with the people they run for office...they will continue to lose.

www.washingtonpost.com...

shall I provide more links?

I know some conservatives wish the abortion issue would go away...but it's not going to as long as the Right Wing Christians hold the GOP hostage.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: olaru12

Yes. This is a fringe issue. Being Pro-Life does not make you conservative. It is time for this argument to not be in the forefront of the person who would lead this nation. The Federal Government should not have the ability to make judgement on it to begin with. What, if my president is Pro- choice we are less likely to go to war? Balance a budget?

Fringe Issue meaning a capture voter issue. Personally, I think it is ignorant to vote for someone based on their view on abortion.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda?

We can do that all day long.

Fact is - - Preserving Traditional Marriage and anti-abortion - - - are the 2 main focuses of the Conservatives.

Should it be? Hell No - - but, it is.

a reply to: olaru12

Hostage...you are absolutely correct. I do not need an education on what some 'conservative' groups call for. It is a moral and religious argument, not a legal argument.

I do not fit the common conservative Republican. A LOT of America does not. My point is that we should make politicians not discuss these issue but ones such as balancing the federal budget or foreign policy.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: UKTruth

I think he is like a lot of people who do not really care about an issue until it hits them personally. He has said...

I don't think he cares at all.

I think he was just going for votes from the anti-abortion crowd.

And it backfired.

I think this is exactly what happened.
Trump has no ability to veer off what he rally believes in - when he does he falls over.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: olaru12

Yes. This is a fringe issue. Being Pro-Life does not make you conservative. It is time for this argument to not be in the forefront of the person who would lead this nation. The Federal Government should not have the ability to make judgement on it to begin with. What, if my president is Pro- choice we are less likely to go to war? Balance a budget?

Fringe Issue meaning a capture voter issue. Personally, I think it is ignorant to vote for someone based on their view on abortion.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda?

We can do that all day long.

Fact is - - Preserving Traditional Marriage and anti-abortion - - - are the 2 main focuses of the Conservatives.

Should it be? Hell No - - but, it is.

Should it be? Yes absolutely, unless that focus turns into a focus to pass laws that force a way of life on others who want to live a different life (one hurts no one else).

Nothing wrong with a focus on your won preferred way of life.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: olaru12



I do not fit the common conservative Republican. A LOT of America does not. My point is that we should make politicians not discuss these issue but ones such as balancing the federal budget or foreign policy.

Then perhaps you should tell that to your boy Trump. Oh, but he doesn't know anything about those issues now, does he? How can you support his obvious pandering transparent BS.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: olaru12

Yes. This is a fringe issue. Being Pro-Life does not make you conservative. It is time for this argument to not be in the forefront of the person who would lead this nation. The Federal Government should not have the ability to make judgement on it to begin with. What, if my president is Pro- choice we are less likely to go to war? Balance a budget?

Fringe Issue meaning a capture voter issue. Personally, I think it is ignorant to vote for someone based on their view on abortion.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda?

We can do that all day long.

Fact is - - Preserving Traditional Marriage and anti-abortion - - - are the 2 main focuses of the Conservatives.

Should it be? Hell No - - but, it is.

Should it be? Yes absolutely, unless that focus turns into a focus to pass laws that force a way of life on others who want to live a different life (one hurts no one else).

Nothing wrong with a focus on your won preferred way of life.

Trump is a business man. He knows to have the power you first have to get elected.

He says and does whatever he thinks will get people to vote for him.

What he really thinks politically? I haven't a clue. I don't think anyone else does either. I'm not even sure Trump does.

He just wants to win.

a reply to: olaru12

I do not see any pandering. Again, we are all entitled to choose who we want in an election. Out of the top 4 right now, if I had to choose, I would vote for Trump right now. Does not mean it could not change. I cannot stand Hillary. I do not like Bernies fiscal policies and Cruz is like a slimy used car salesman who is also a small seedy church pastor at night.

Most people have also not read Trumps plans. Or looked at his policies or team. They are too busy talking about his hair.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: olaru12

Yes. This is a fringe issue. Being Pro-Life does not make you conservative. It is time for this argument to not be in the forefront of the person who would lead this nation. The Federal Government should not have the ability to make judgement on it to begin with. What, if my president is Pro- choice we are less likely to go to war? Balance a budget?

Fringe Issue meaning a capture voter issue. Personally, I think it is ignorant to vote for someone based on their view on abortion.

Shoulda, coulda, woulda?

We can do that all day long.

Fact is - - Preserving Traditional Marriage and anti-abortion - - - are the 2 main focuses of the Conservatives.

Should it be? Hell No - - but, it is.

Should it be? Yes absolutely, unless that focus turns into a focus to pass laws that force a way of life on others who want to live a different life (one hurts no one else).

Nothing wrong with a focus on your won preferred way of life.

Trump is a business man. He knows to have the power you first have to get elected.

He says and does whatever he thinks will get people to vote for him.

What he really thinks politically? I haven't a clue. I don't think anyone else does either. I'm not even sure Trump does.

He just wants to win.

I disagree with this. I think Trump has two things that he really believes in; trade and immigration. They were the headlines when he entered the race and his arguments have been pretty consistent and on the whole sensible to a lot of people.
All other topics, he's just making it up as he goes along.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: olaru12

Most people have also not read Trumps plans. Or looked at his policies or team. They are too busy talking about his hair.

Not from my perspective....

As I listen to AM radio conservatives they seem to see his obvious misogyny and racism and some support it. Many however realize it's a losing propasition and
many have become disillusioned with the Donald's arrogance coupled with his ignorance. Dangerous combo, eh?

How can he expect to get the nomination with the GOP splintered into fussing factions and almost total disarray. And it's Trumps fault.
Most true moderates find Trumps arrogance distasteful. Even my Baptist, rightwing, Republican 75yr. old mother thinks Trumps' a geeky dick; to use her very words.

fivethirtyeight.com...

a reply to: olaru12

Talking points - The AM talk show pundits are being paid by conservatives and since the GOP does not have the candidate it wants you will not here the good. None of it.

Misogyny - Where do you see this? If he did not give women a chance or constantly disrespected but I do not see that. His daughter is his CEO and Trump tower was built by a woman as the project manager and that is decades ago. He is progressive when it comes to not holding women back. So what if he likes attractive women? Is there something evil about that?

thehill.com...

Racist - This again is simply not true. He has not once made a racist statement in his campaign. Unless you are willing to call Ben Carson an Uncle Tom since he does not see the racism but supports him.

The party is splintered but it is not his fault. It is his candidacy that brought it to the forefront. There are a lot more people than you really think who are ready to vote to make America great again as he states. this is the 1980 election all over.

It will only get more interesting when HIllary is indicted.

a reply to: matafuchs

Misogyny - Where do you see this? If he did not give women a chance or constantly disrespected but I do not see that. His daughter is his CEO and Trump tower was built by a woman as the project manager and that is decades ago. He is progressive when it comes to not holding women back. So what if he likes attractive women? Is there something evil about that?

If it's not misogyny to call for women to be punished for having an abortion....what is it?

www.usatoday.com...

Of course he backed off this statement after the outrage. The damage has been done however....


Racism....

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Trump still has plenty of time to repair his candidacy but I doubt if his arrogant pride will allow it.

originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: matafuchs

Misogyny - Where do you see this? If he did not give women a chance or constantly disrespected but I do not see that. His daughter is his CEO and Trump tower was built by a woman as the project manager and that is decades ago. He is progressive when it comes to not holding women back. So what if he likes attractive women? Is there something evil about that?

If it's not misogyny to call for women to be punished for having an abortion....what is it?

www.usatoday.com...

Of course he backed off this statement after the outrage. The damage has been done however....


Racism....

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Trump still has plenty of time to repair his candidacy but I doubt if his arrogant pride will allow it.

What? How is it misogyny to answer a hypothetical question, based on abortion being illegal , to say that a woman should be punished for breaking the law? Is it therefore misogynistic to say a woman should be punished for assault, or murder, or theft... maybe a woman should never be punished no matter what?


I read the 9 examples of racism - none of them are examples of racism on the part of Trump.

a reply to: olaru12

Trump is not racist.
The people that say that are repeating what they hear in tweets, or twisting words.
Stopping ILLEGAL immigration is not racism, it is common sense.

Read this:
When Trump Fought the Racists

Trump fought against the town council and powerful people in Florida to get them to allow blacks and Jews at his golf club, in an area where restrictions are the norm.
He has his attorneys shame the town council by sending them two videos about racism.
He stands up to people for his principles.

Seriously - please read this article. And stop spreading falsehoods.

The good news here that in Donald Trump someone — finally — is standing up to fight back. Just as he fought back all those years ago in Palm Beach when no one was looking.