How is Bob Lazar Not a Respected Figure?

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
This man is seen as a fraudster/hoaxer/lier, a man who lied

Exactly when and where did he get his "degree"?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

His printer.

a reply to: Alien Abduct

Trinity College and University, like everyone else, of course.

It used to be a big military go-to for people to make the jump from E to O.

They had a bloody purge at Redstone after a local TV station did some poking around.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Maybe the question should be 'why should people respect him?

He has made claims and nothing more. As Sideshow Bob once said "you don't win a Nobel prize for attempted physics."

Bob made reference to element 115 in 1989, was first synthesized in 2003, at the time he was stating this, only up to 112 was confirmed. He also stated to synthesize a usable amount is virtually impossible.

but yet

He spoke with depth of how it was used to power craft

So aliens managed to power a craft with element that is 'virtually impossible' to create. I failed high school physics and even I know that the most stable heavy element is iron-let alone an element with an atomic weight of 115-it would tear itself apart before it could be of any use to anyone.

Bob spoke confidently about gravitational waves in 1989, that was confirmed in 2015 and then publicly confirmed in 2016.

Einstein beat him by about 70 years

He spoke of how the crafts manipulated gravity as well as the limitations of the crafts in low speed mode, both of which seem completely logical and are near impossible to disprove as we've never managed to do it ourselves.

Gravity is one of the weakest four forces when the playing field is even. Gravity waves appear to be so weak that using them as propulsion would be like trying to propel a yacht with a hairdryer.

He spoke also of the texture and believed composition of the craft and how he believe it was made. Now bare with me, many of you will probably jump at this, but his choice of words are fairly important. It comes off fairly natural, he explained what he believed it to be "I assumed it was metal because it was, Cold to the touch" "Stainless steel wasn't shine"

It was the 80's and carbon fiber was a groundbreaking material back then.

Embellishing or lying? Who knows.

I can't say I'm a thorough investigator or anything of the sort especially on the topic of UFO/Aliens

Soooo.......why are you saying he's not a fake?
Lazar has been caught in lie, after lie, after lie, after lie...............

a person advocating for them.

Lazar advocates for his bank account. Scamming the gullible is profitable. Obviously.

Many of the comments here simply show exactly what I'm saying. As persons browsing this section of the forum, I'd love to assume you're all believers. Else why would you be here? Why would you not respect a man that decided to publicly try to bring your beliefs to the world. I hope none of you are religious persons.

The first guy that commented Phage, discarded many things as people like to tell stories. They actually do. Good for you bud, a second part to one of the points (2) had 3 people telling a similar story from 3 different angles but you seem to nitpick at what you would want in a way to instantly discard the entire post. That's fine, I don't mind opinions are just that, be it yours or mine.

Then there's a bunch of people out there running around saying "hahaha look at this idiot if you synthesize it then it's exactly the same" no, we cannot synthesize a pound of anything, as an atom just 1 atom it will decay and atmospheres are VERY different. For people that believe in UFO it's sad to see you attack a comment making jokes at it and not simply understand you can find heavy metals elsewhere in the universe due to the conditions of the planets atmosphere. But go on and joke about that guys comment.

And addressing element 115, definitely you are all right there no doubt about that. Scientists tend to theorize miles ahead of our current limitations they do. And it's easy to pick something and just say yea. This one. You all have a point there and there's no possible way for me to fight it, as it doesn't exhibit the properties claimed, for we are unable to synthesize a sufficient quantity compatible with our conditions.

In regards to his certifications definitely I haven't researched any of this, can anyone name a reputable scientist who works at any of these facilities? I know a total of 0, and I haven't researched it, but it would be in the governments best interest to have his workers be educated ghosts. People who aren't after the spotlight, but hey as I said. List some I'd legitimately like the knowledge and appreciate it greatly for my own personal research.

But my point stands you are all trying to tear him down rather than try to prove his points, it seems rather like hate than appreciation. Hate doesn't advance you.

And last but not least while looking around I found this video:



At around ~2:20 the judge states "It's hard to get information about bob lazar from government sources"

It's interesting to see people post some crappy cgi videos and people comment calling them out and instantly there's a mass of people calling another a "Disinfo" agent. But a tell all like bob lazar would come under no fire from the government. No attempt to destroy his reputation and character to make him seem as a very discreditable source. I'm not saying to believe his words but appreciate them. EVERY person in this forum who is to make mention of their experience is ridiculed. It's fine if you cannot believe nor conceptualize what another person is saying but don't try to throw someone under the bus for telling their experience. Appreciate it as a ufologist archive it and move on with your life until there is more proof to support the claims. It's why the group cannot advance because most your efforts if not all are placed into calling people out on almost anything they say. Rather than appreciate and move on.

Also did anyone read anything of "Authentic Alien Artifact?" I can't say I've seen a post about it, see the link below.

source:
National Atomic Testing Museum: Authentic Alien Artifact

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom

...1) Bob made reference to element 115 in 1989, was first synthesized in 2003, at the time he was stating this, only up to 112 was confirmed....

...3) Bob spoke confidently about gravitational waves in 1989, that was confirmed in 2015 and then publicly confirmed in 2016....

All he needed to do to be able to have knowledge of element 115 and gravitational waves at that time was to read a high school textbook (albeit an advanced level textbook) or read a science magazine such as Scientific American.

Both element 115 and gravitational waves were predicted by mainstream science at the time that Bob Lazar made reference to them.

I mean, element 120 hasn't yet been confirmed, but science predicts that it most likely exists (even if just for a moment at a time). So let me make a Bob Lazar-like statement about element 120:

"There is secret technology that uses element 120 as an unlimited free and clean power source."

There. My statement about element 120 has been made and is in the public record. Now, let's wait several years for element 120 to be confirmed, and then all can hail me and my knowledge of a secret clean and free unlimited power source.

I'll be back then to receive my accolades.

None of the whistle blowers are, but they're hero's nonetheless!

originally posted by: Unity_99
None of the whistle blowers are, but they're hero's nonetheless!

Well, he could be just a storyteller and not a hero.

Lots of people can tell stories, but I'm not necessarily going to believe the story just because I want it to be true; it doesn't always work that way. There are many things that people say that I want to be true or that "sounds really cool", but many of those people (such as Lazar) have nothing concrete to back up their stories, so they are just stories until they can back them up.

Why do people flock to the "really cool stories" blindly (without anything to corroborate the stories? Is it simply because the stories are cool and alternative explanations that people really really want to believe in, so they do so blindly?

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Well well. You might as well have made a thread on reptilians.. 😉

There are many names in the UFO community that no matter what you think of them saying them on here will get you beat down, Lazar is one of them.

Before ATS I had never heard of him and if I had I didn't I remember much. I have done my own research on him and what he has said. I take all that I read on anyone with a grain of salt and make my own conclusions based on personal research.

Personally I don't mind him. Is he a crack pot? Maybe, you be the judge 😁What I look for when researching one of these conspiracy names is the information they give. I take that information and go on my own little chase of the white rabbit down the hole. There are many names whose work I thoroughly enjoy but I do not discuss on here because it just turns into an argument, same reason I don't talk reptilians on here.

If you like someone's work don't let anyone on here persuade you otherwise. Draw your own conclusions on that person but do your research!

originally posted by: Unity_99
None of the whistle blowers are, but they're hero's nonetheless!

Wait...how is a liar a hero?

a reply to: Phage

Some ATSers should stable their high horses and open their minds.

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
Many of the comments here simply show exactly what I'm saying. As persons browsing this section of the forum, I'd love to assume you're all believers. Else why would you be here? Why would you not respect a man that decided to publicly try to bring your beliefs to the world. I hope none of you are religious persons.

The first guy that commented Phage, discarded many things as people like to tell stories. They actually do. Good for you bud, a second part to one of the points (2) had 3 people telling a similar story from 3 different angles but you seem to nitpick at what you would want in a way to instantly discard the entire post. That's fine, I don't mind opinions are just that, be it yours or mine.

Then there's a bunch of people out there running around saying "hahaha look at this idiot if you synthesize it then it's exactly the same" no, we cannot synthesize a pound of anything, as an atom just 1 atom it will decay and atmospheres are VERY different. For people that believe in UFO it's sad to see you attack a comment making jokes at it and not simply understand you can find heavy metals elsewhere in the universe due to the conditions of the planets atmosphere. But go on and joke about that guys comment.

And addressing element 115, definitely you are all right there no doubt about that. Scientists tend to theorize miles ahead of our current limitations they do. And it's easy to pick something and just say yea. This one. You all have a point there and there's no possible way for me to fight it, as it doesn't exhibit the properties claimed, for we are unable to synthesize a sufficient quantity compatible with our conditions.

In regards to his certifications definitely I haven't researched any of this, can anyone name a reputable scientist who works at any of these facilities? I know a total of 0, and I haven't researched it, but it would be in the governments best interest to have his workers be educated ghosts. People who aren't after the spotlight, but hey as I said. List some I'd legitimately like the knowledge and appreciate it greatly for my own personal research.

But my point stands you are all trying to tear him down rather than try to prove his points, it seems rather like hate than appreciation. Hate doesn't advance you.

And last but not least while looking around I found this video:

At around ~2:20 the judge states "It's hard to get information about bob lazar from government sources"

It's interesting to see people post some crappy cgi videos and people comment calling them out and instantly there's a mass of people calling another a "Disinfo" agent. But a tell all like bob lazar would come under no fire from the government. No attempt to destroy his reputation and character to make him seem as a very discreditable source. I'm not saying to believe his words but appreciate them. EVERY person in this forum who is to make mention of their experience is ridiculed. It's fine if you cannot believe nor conceptualize what another person is saying but don't try to throw someone under the bus for telling their experience. Appreciate it as a ufologist archive it and move on with your life until there is more proof to support the claims. It's why the group cannot advance because most your efforts if not all are placed into calling people out on almost anything they say. Rather than appreciate and move on.

Also did anyone read anything of "Authentic Alien Artifact?" I can't say I've seen a post about it, see the link below.

source:
National Atomic Testing Museum: Authentic Alien Artifact

I can assure you, i , in no way shape or form believe anything Lazar has said. Let me make it very clear to you i believe he is a liar. 100%

Why am i here? Because I like physics and when i see someone try to bullsh*t about it (as lazar has), i comment.

And no, im not religious, though im not sure what that has to do with anything. As for the people who have commented here like Phage, i can assure you they are FAR more knowledgeable than Lazar when it comes to physics. I would pay attention to what they say and learn something.

By the way, what lazar has said has been debunked many many times. In this thread included.

The reason for me hoping that you aren't religious is just the same as lazar's claims. To debunk what you do not know unless there is tested proof that his methods have failed, then you just have a theory based on the limited knowledge vested in us by the past greats.

Sometimes here I wonder if "Deny Ignorance" is really a thing. I do not care about the knowledge of phage. We haven't set foot on another planet yet, he's a master in physics and knows it real well to be able to debunk anything. We as humans are limited in terms of knowledge and we should be very accepting of that fact.

However it seems most people here are hardwired. If the books say no then it's no. It's not left to be plausible until there is significant proof. So until you get an alien craft powered by element 115, how can you look to say it's impossible and he's a liar and trash. Should I go in every church that exists and step on the podium and tell everyone that their religion is a lie? Do I have substantial proof to do that? No I can only take it with a grain of salt and have my personal OPINION.

Religions are widely accepted, but anyone sprinkle a word about ufo/aliens and then there's 100 persons chasing them down to say hey, he's wrong and he's a liar and what he's saying is impossible. Well obviously to get to somewhere new you would have to do something you've never done before.

How can you be an advocate for science but argue in absolutes when you have never tested something.
6 Scientific discoveries that laugh in the face of physics - Cracked.com

In this world you should first acknowledge that nothing is impossible, you just don't know how. Deny Ignorance.

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: Phage

Some ATSers should stable their high horses and open their minds.

My mind is open to the possibility that Lazar's story is wholly or in part true. However, just because I see that his story falls within the realm of possibility does NOT mean that I should automatically respect his story or (as someone above put it) consider him a whistleblowing hero.

Skeptics usually do admit the possibility or plausibility of something being true, but need more than just "possibility or plausibility" to accept a story as anything more than just a story.

Lots of things people have claimed were within the realm of possibility or plausibility when the claim was made. Some of those claims ended up being true, while some ended up being false. That fact that some of those claims end up being false is why some skeptics don't blindly accept claims that are "possible" as actually being true.

A claim is just a story -- nothing more, nothing less -- until that claim can be verified. I don't vilify Bob Lazar just because I don't necessarily believe his story, but I don't necessarily believe his story, either, so why would I hail him as a hero or as someone who has knowledge of alien engineering?

My feelings about him and his story are neutral. Just because I don't have a verifiable reason to believe his story is true doesn't meant that it proves his story is false. At this point, Lazar's story in my eyes is neither true nor false.

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
The reason for me hoping that you aren't religious is just the same as lazar's claims. To debunk what you do not know unless there is tested proof that his methods have failed, then you just have a theory based on the limited knowledge vested in us by the past greats.

Sometimes here I wonder if "Deny Ignorance" is really a thing. I do not care about the knowledge of phage. We haven't set foot on another planet yet, he's a master in physics and knows it real well to be able to debunk anything. We as humans are limited in terms of knowledge and we should be very accepting of that fact.

However it seems most people here are hardwired. If the books say no then it's no. It's not left to be plausible until there is significant proof. So until you get an alien craft powered by element 115, how can you look to say it's impossible and he's a liar and trash. Should I go in every church that exists and step on the podium and tell everyone that their religion is a lie? Do I have substantial proof to do that? No I can only take it with a grain of salt and have my personal OPINION.

Religions are widely accepted, but anyone sprinkle a word about ufo/aliens and then there's 100 persons chasing them down to say hey, he's wrong and he's a liar and what he's saying is impossible. Well obviously to get to somewhere new you would have to do something you've never done before.

How can you be an advocate for science but argue in absolutes when you have never tested something.
6 Scientific discoveries that laugh in the face of physics - Cracked.com

In this world you should first acknowledge that nothing is impossible, you just don't know how. Deny Ignorance.

Because I know enough about physics and chemistry to know he is lying. How do you guys bashing us skeptics not get this? We understand the physics he is trying to lie about. And we know that what we know is right as it's backed up decades of evidence and proof. Everything you have in fro t of you is from mankind understanding of physics and chemistry which Lazar stories do not line up with.

So yeah..If he had said a few things that turned out to be right...I would give him the time of day. But he hasn't. Until then...he's full of it.

I mean...i can say that in the future we will be using iridium to power our cars. Why would you belive me if all the proof I try to pass off is wrong.

Welcome to the real world. You might not like it but science is responsible for everything we have. And im not about to turn my back on it just because UFO'S are exciting and i want aliens to be real, so i will believe any loser who can pick up a science book and sell a tall tale.

Well let it be known that I'm also a skeptic. That doesn't mean hey I'm going to believe science books.

We are currently incapable of intergalactic travel and as it stands, according to our books it's impossible, for it to ever become capable OBVIOUSLY things once said will most likely have to be changed. Is this so hard to understand? Be a skeptic YES but have an open mind.

It's really not that hard.

READ THIS LINE UNTIL YOU GET IT:

For something we claim to be impossible to ever become possible things we currently know now MUST be subject to change.


Stop acting as if anything written down is permanent, quantum physics breaks tons of rules.
5 famous scientists dismissed as morons in their time

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
Well let it be known that I'm also a skeptic. That doesn't mean hey I'm going to believe science books.

We are currently incapable of intergalactic travel and as it stands, according to our books it's impossible, for it to ever become capable OBVIOUSLY things once said will most likely have to be changed. Is this so hard to understand? Be a skeptic YES but have an open mind.

It's really not that hard.

READ THIS LINE UNTIL YOU GET IT:

For something we claim to be impossible to ever become possible things we currently know now MUST be subject to change.


Stop acting as if anything written down is permanent, quantum physics breaks tons of rules.
5 famous scientists dismissed as morons in their time

What rules is quantum mechanics breaking? It changed the rules. Didn't break them. And it goes back to what I said...quantum mechanics has volumes and volumes of hard data to back it up. As well as purely quantum mechanics devices like transistors making it possible fo us to post this.

See how it works? One side is real life science...the other is made up fantasies.

And I can't stress this enough...Lazar is not a scientist.

originally posted by: mblahnikluver
Personally I don't mind him. Is he a crack pot? Maybe, you be the judge

I don't call him a crackpot, I call him a liar and do you really think he could have commuted between classes at Pierce College in California and MIT in Massachusetts? He would have had to for his claims to be true, or did your research not uncover this fact?

originally posted by: NewzNose
a reply to: Phage

Some ATSers should stable their high horses and open their minds.

Who was it who said "It's good to have an open mind, but not so open your brain falls out". ?

originally posted by: SuspiciousTom
Stop acting as if anything written down is permanent, quantum physics breaks tons of rules.
5 famous scientists dismissed as morons in their time

They weren't liars though, that's the part you don't seem to get about Lazar, he's a proven liar. Yes, you can prove yourself it's impossible to commute between classes in California and Massachusetts, which proves Lazar is lying.

a reply to: Box of Rain

Ok.

Most of his story seems like out of place, like he made up part of it
one thing I do give him is Bob Lazar taking John Lear to watch UFO's
at a time & place he knew about.