How is Bob Lazar Not a Respected Figure?

originally posted by: charlyv
a reply to: joelr

Seems to me you have not been keeping up with a great deal of the new research going on. You keep rambling up old stuff we all know. The science is rapidly changing. Check out some of the revelations from Cern recently....

Yeah but it also "seems to you" that Bob Lazar is a scientist and telling the truth so you have some studying to do.

Cern hasn't found gravitons and it's not happening soon. You don't read into pop-science articles too much. All they can do right now is bump hunt with decay patterns.
The physics I've mentioned is still just as relevant as ever

The bleeding edge particle physicists today are in many different camps, as we are in the infancy of quantum discovery.

There is dispute among some things but NOTHING I mentioned about Lazar is in that group. There is no dispute about the strong force being gravity B or that there are 2 separate theories for waves and particles or that the sun bends light that much or that element 115 is magic or produces gravity waves or that gravity waves can be contained.

This is all known and undisputed science that Lazar does not know.

I believe he witnessed things that not a person today can understand, and my money would bet that you will change your tune once those incredible scientists at CERN get a grasp of not only what they have already discovered, but what will come out of it in the near future. You blame a person that does not fully understand what anyone of this planet really does not understand and he is just an easy target because he told about it.

Bob already rambled in a complete non-science way, that isn't going to change. He's a fraud. We are not going to discover there is a separate theory for waves and particles. We are not going to "make" gravity waves from bombarding any element. The strong force will never be "gravity B".

Having an open mind is the only way we will be able to contemplate the things that are before us.

If you had enough of an open mind to learn physics you would be able to see Bob is contradicting himself and talking pop-sci nonsense.
An open mind would listen when scientists say someone is abusing science words and talking trash. I've seen plenty of scientists say that.
Open mind means one is open to something being true AND false. When something is debunked an open mind will accept it and move on.
Open mind means realizing some people know more science than you and can spot a science fraud.
If you can't spot the fraud you just aren't up to speed on the science.

Believe what you want, knock yourself out. But it's not about having an open mind, it's about wanting something to be true so bad you won't listen to criticism.

The whole ufo at area 51 thing is a by-product of Roswell being true. Except Roswell is as fake as myths get. It's been debunked.

originally posted by: charlyv
Having an open mind is the only way we will be able to contemplate the things that are before us.

The open-minded person you seem to be describing sounds like the type of person that would have bought a jar of everything the snake-oil salesman who rode through town was peddling, because of some misguided notion that being "open-minded" means that every claim should ultimately be considered equal to every other claim.

No thank you. I'll keep my mind open by looking at every claim with a eye towards critical thought, knowledge, and logic. Granted, an open minded person should initially consider every claim as equal before those claims are investigated, and not blindly discard any of them. However after that initial consideration and subsequent investigation, they should weed out the claims that fail to pass the critical thought and logic tests.

a reply to: Phage

Hi Phage i'm asking you because you have probably responded to one of the original posts on the subject
where can I find the images that phil schneider is holding up in that video at 24 mins

sorry phageoogle

I forgot that its no longer the late 80's and we can google things

I completely believe Bob Lazare, come on......the stuff he's told is too wild to make up. Everyone should watch or read John Lears camalot project interviews. He and Lazare are pals. A few years ago i started reading the transcripts on a Friday and went almost non stop till Sunday. I couldn't put it down. The link is below


www.projectcamelot.org...

originally posted by: johnnybrown4792
I completely believe Bob Lazare, come on......the stuff he's told is too wild to make up.

I dunno...

...I've read some pretty fantastic science fiction stories that people such as Asimov, Clarke, Niven, Bradbury, Heinlein, etc have made up that are more wild than Lazar's story.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: johnnybrown4792
I completely believe Bob Lazare, come on......the stuff he's told is too wild to make up.

I dunno...

...I've read some pretty fantastic science fiction stories that people such as Asimov, Clarke, Niven, Bradbury, Heinlein, etc have made up that are more wild than Lazar's story.

I was once told by an excellent story teller that the best yarns are wound up with a few truths and half-truths. Humans have a tendancy to want to believe the unbelievable. People like Greer and Lazar know this it sells books.

I loved reading Clarke as a kid, fond memories of his mystery series too.

originally posted by: johnnybrown4792
I completely believe Bob Lazare, come on......the stuff he's told is too wild to make up. Everyone should watch or read John Lears camalot project interviews. He and Lazare are pals. A few years ago i started reading the transcripts on a Friday and went almost non stop till Sunday. I couldn't put it down. The link is below


www.projectcamelot.org...

Lear is another one, a master of making stuff up.
All that area 51 stuff hinges on Roswell being real.

I like how the guy who recently wrote the book about black triangles ("Black Triangles:An Assessment of the Situation") or something like that, was asked about Area 51 and such and he said a similar thing, how it all actually hinges on Roswell and Roswell is very shaky and it's all a house of cards that falls down very easily.

We need to focus on things that could potentially be real ufo encounters. Not stuff that completely debunks itself.
Brazle found a box kite, this cannot realistically be made into a ufo with alien bodies. Even if old ex-military dudes make crap up 20 years after the fact.
I also failed to catch that fact the first few times I watched programs about Roswell.

On youtube I found some interview from the 80's where a guy actually dealt with that fact, he actually said, "Oh, there were two separate crash sites". At least he tried.

Roswell happened without a doubt.
Its very clear if you go through the available testimones and books about the subject.
Lazar is telling the truth.
Also obvious from the available material.

originally posted by: tjocksteffe
Roswell happened without a doubt.

True, a Project Mogul balloon crashed there.

Lazar is telling the truth.

No, he has constantly lied, including about his "degree"!

So the air force has over the years come up with, what is it now? Three or four "official explanations" because of a balloon?
Also witnesses of the debris field including the base intelligence officer Jesse Marcel stated that the material was certainly not from any balloon.
I guess your next argument for the witness reports of the recovered alien bodies will be the dummies the air force dropped in the 1950ies.
Roswell happened and it was no ballon crashing.

originally posted by: tjocksteffe
So the air force has over the years come up with, what is it now? Three or four "official explanations" because of a balloon?
Also witnesses of the debris field including the base intelligence officer Jesse Marcel stated that the material was certainly not from any balloon.
I guess your next argument for the witness reports of the recovered alien bodies will be the dummies the air force dropped in the 1950ies.
Roswell happened and it was no ballon crashing.

What I find funny about you diehard believers is that you seem to be blissfully aware that people can make mistakes, can be wrong about what the thought at first, can be misinterpreted, might not know every single material that is used to make balloons. You also seem to think that communication errors never happen. Stories get mixed up and balloon out of proportion. No...nothing like that has ever happened. Human beings are infallible and that's that. What they said in the heat if the moment the night of the crash stands 100% NO REDACTIONS ALLOWED!

What also makes me chuckle is that you all hate government officials, tptb, people in power..unless they are on your side of the story, in which case every single word they say is gospel.

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

originally posted by: tjocksteffe
So the air force has over the years come up with, what is it now? Three or four "official explanations" because of a balloon?
Also witnesses of the debris field including the base intelligence officer Jesse Marcel stated that the material was certainly not from any balloon.

Marcel said he didn't think the material was from this Earth. Then he proceeded to describe material that sounds exactly like balloon material, as did the rancher and his daughter who found the debris. The foil had some "amazing properties" that it didn't burn and hitting it with a sledgehammer didn't affect it. Hmmm, I tried both of those with my foil, it doesn't burn and it's not affected by a sledgehammer either, must be extraterrestrial foil with those amazing properties, right? But the box claims it's made right here on Earth, how can that be?

The Roswell Incident

Rancher William ‘Mac’ Brazel, who first discovered the wreckage, didn’t think what he’d found was a weather balloon. However, what he described – bits of rubber, sticks, paper, tinfoil and scotch tape with flowers on – hardly sounds like debris from a spaceship either. Brazel’s daughter Bessie, who was 14 years old at the time and helped him gather the debris, gave a description of it that was very similar to her father’s. She described “double-sized material, foil-like on one side and rubber-like on the other”, “sticks like kite sticks” and “whitish tape” with “flower-like designs on it”.

And what she also said, contrary to her father’s belief, is that “the debris looked like pieces of a large balloon which had burst”.

I guess your next argument for the witness reports of the recovered alien bodies will be the dummies the air force dropped in the 1950ies.

That was a proven hoax. The nurse in that story, Naomi Maria Self, doesn't exist, never existed. She's a fictitious character made up by Glenn Dennis who apparently didn't realize that personnel records exist and can be checked.

Enter Glenn Dennis. He was the first person to make a claim about alien bodies being recovered from the Roswell crash site. He worked in a funeral home in Roswell and recalled several phone calls at the time from an RAAF mortuary officer asking for “small caskets”. He said that a friend of his, a nurse for the RAAF Hospital, admitted to him that she had taken part in the autopsy of three alien creatures. Apparently she told him to keep it a secret and was then killed in a military plane crash. However, no records of this plane crash exist, and when he finally gave her name – Naomi Maria Self – research found that she didn’t exist either.

But the alien stories didn’t stop there. Jim Ragsdale said he was in the desert with his girlfriend, Trudy Truelove (what a name!) and discovered a spaceship sticking out of a cliff-face, a number of alien bodies and huge military recovery teams. But his story was discredited too, thanks to multiple changes to his story.

And about Glenn Dennis, did you catch this?

www.abqjournal.com...

Dennis, president of the board of directors of the International UFO Museum & Research Center in Roswell, does not remember the date.....

OK so do you want to tell me there's no chance that Dennis made those stories up to drive traffic to his museum? Please don't tell me you're that naive. It's pretty obvious to people who have researched this case that's exactly what he did.

Dennis is part of the Roswell pack of lies that the Lazar lies are built on, but lots of people told the truth. Marcel, the Rancher and his daughter all described pretty much the same material, that sounds exactly like balloon material.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

Marcel said he didn't think the material was from this Earth. Then he proceeded to describe material that sounds exactly like balloon material, as did the rancher and his daughter who found the debris. The foil had some "amazing properties" that it didn't burn and hitting it with a sledgehammer didn't affect it.

A good example would be metalicized Mylar material (think Mylar balloon, but with professional/industrial grade material).

Someone from the late 1940s seeing a metalicized Mylar material for the first time might describe it as a metal that after being crushed like a ball will go back to almost its original shape.

a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Thank You for this Thread, SuspiciousTom! We've seen "Bob Lazar's Sport Model" from less than a kilometer away in 1995 and therefore can validate part of the Lazar Story! We've been running down the "rabbit hole" ever since! Bob Lazar and John Lear are the "real deal". It unfortunate that due to the subject matter it's simply too much for even our smartest minds to withstand, with only a few exceptions. Don't forget to take the "blue pill" and perhaps we'll see you on the other side of the looking glass someday.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: SuspiciousTom

Why is Bob Lazar not respected in the field of Ufology?

Easy, he is a proven charlatan. People telling half truths or completly fabricated lies have done enough damage to the field of study. Mr Lazar is one of the bigger conmen in the field.

Dmitri Mendeleev pretty much created the table we use to classify and place elements, he predicted elements too and their properties. Was he just a brilliant chemist or "in the know"?

Now I'm not the smartest chap, but I read a lot and have a big pool of general knowledge in my noggin. I found out soon that Bob Lazar is not telling truths and I luckily never got took for that ride.

Don't waste your time, if you do then just read about the fantastical facts and stories people like Lazar have to sell you and then decide if you'll buy it.

Ufology is VERY murky lake of study to go swimming in, it's well worth doing a bit research before jumping head first in... You never know what you might catch and it's easy to get stuck in the mud, then the wildlife eat you.

Please tell us how he is a "proven charlatan" after the initial interviews, he distanced himself from it. If he is a charlatan, then he is not a very good one.

It is obvious that whatever his motives, money was not one of them. The real annoying thing is people instantly labelling someone a charlatan or only in it for the money, when they clearly do not know what they are talking about!

a reply to: Jay-morris

Why then?

I mean honestly, why would he speak of things as a fact and then distance himself from it as you say he has.

You either know or you don't, he spoke as if he knew.

Maybe he was an attention seeker?

Either way, the advice I gave in my 2nd from last paragraph is reasonable. I don't know how much money he has in the bank, I don't look out for him. In the past though I've noticed him skirting around the phenomena.

I don't know what I'm talking about in regards of the person, I know a bit in regards to the content.

I mean, I respect David Icke. I believe he's been bang on about some things in the past, some of his material is just barmy. But that's my opinion. He has no evidence of reptilians.

So when it comes to NWO conspiracies, I won't take what he says as gospel.

In terms of Bob Lazar, I won't be believing much he says. It's nothing against the guy, it's the content of what he has shared.

Tbh though, I don't really care. He can hold his meetings, meet some aliens with people who follow him and all round have a great old funky time.

I've had fun with ufology, I'm still non the wiser and tbh I don't mind at all. I wasn't expecting answers and those that hold the keys to that door won't be opening it anytime soon either.

Others that claim to have the key always seem to "lose it" over time.

It's a rabbit hole Alice, you've got to lose your mind to get out of it.

Someone once told me the biggest problem in the world is greed. Now maybe greed explains this too. Maybe Bob Lazar got greedy for fame or fortune or woman or something else and he thought these wild claims would get him there. Or maybe he was telling the truth in a convoluted or inexperienced way and he's being sacrificed so somebody or somethings can retain control or power. Honestly, I think Bob was greedy for tricking the gullible and gaining some fame, and maybe he thought he'd make money from it and yet it never delivered as he'd hoped. When it didn't deliver, he lost interest and tried to put it behind him.

If you look over the history of ufology you find a lot of tall tales, not unlike the tens of thousands science fiction stories been written for readers like me. It's logical to conclude some writers and people are seeking something more than the standard route. They want to pass a lie as truth. It becomes a guilty habit. Idk, it seems plausible to me. Some people will steal from you or lie and it doesn't cause them any shame. They always find a way to shift blame.

a reply to: jonnywhite
Thing is, those with talent stick with fiction. The others, to maintain the habit, just lie.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: jonnywhite
Thing is, those with talent stick with fiction. The others, to maintain the habit, just lie.

What about Whitley Streiber? I think I'm trying to summon him as an example. He wrote fiction. But he also came out about his apparent abduction. He's elaborated numerous times on it. He's had his own radio show. You might argue he doesn't have talent, or maybe you'll argue he really believes he was abducted--thus isn't lying. Either way, at least I can show here a proven writer of fiction has also written books about his supposed encounters with aliens.

To be more thorough--you're phage--I'll provide this:
The Wolfen (1978)
The Hunger (1981)
Black Magic (1982)
The Night Church (1983)
Warday (1984)
Nature's End (1986)
Wolf of Shadows (1985)
Catmagic (1986)
Communion (1987) // he writes about his abduction here
Transformation (1988)
Majestic (1989)
Billy (1990)
The Wild (1991)
Unholy Fire (1992)
The Forbidden Zone (1993)
Breakthrough (1995)
The Secret School (1996)
..... many more books but i'll stop here.

Most of them deal with the ufo or supernatural topic after his Communion book, but it looks like maybe not all.

a reply to: jonnywhite

Indeed. It's different when one make the jump from fiction writer to documentarian.

Streiber is a good example. Which put him on the best seller list?