Is the book 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' a hoax, a forgery or neither?

a reply to: SargonThrall

yep

a reply to: and14263

I think being banned by a conspiracy site may be a very high honor- I sorta pride myself getting ip banned by INFOWARS.

Besides, antisemitic essentially means anti-arabic not anti-jew and we all know there is no such thing as a jew. Ashkenazi and Khazar however is a race.

a reply to: superluminal11

Even though I like it , I am not affiliated with any one religion

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: bjarneorn

Sorry, but the Protocols are no book comparable with the Bible, or Koran.

They are a work of fiction designed to stoke up anti-Semitism.

Saying "anti-semitism" is just blabber speech ... worthless crap. It's another way of saying "you're only a racist, if you hate jews". And the word "racism" is another blabber speech ... crap talk. It's another way of saying "only if you discriminate by color, is it real discrimination".

People who uphold statements as "anti-semitism", are racists ... same thing about those, who uphold the word "racism". They themselves, are racist.

Discrimination, is irrespective of color or ethnicity ... color or ethnicity, is just another excuse ... but there are countless other excuses. Worst discriminations in history, are not by color or ethnicity ... people born too hairy, called wolves ... people born different, shunned, isolated by entire societies ... to the point of madness and endless torture of the soul itself.

And the Bible, Quoran, the Tanaq, the book of Mormon ... are books, that CREATE discrimination. They are the FOUNDATION of anti-semitism or maybe it's wrong to say they are the FOUNDATION, perhaps it's more correct to say they are the PRODUCT of it. Do you think it is anything BUT discrimination, to call people of other cultures and ethnicity for GOLEMS, and give them a status LESS than others, because they aren't the TRUE PEOPLE OF GOD. ONLY IF YOU FOLLOW JESUS, MOHAMMED or whoever ... will you go to heaven, else you will go to HELL. Breaking one of the ten commandments, is a death sentence.

The words of these books, are what groups like ISIS base their entire existence upon.

So, yes ... ALL these books are equivalent. They are based on fiction ... ALL OF THEM. And they emphasize discrimination. They DISCRIMINATE between the "people of God", and "infidels".

THERE IS NO GREATER DISCRIMINATION, than that.

originally posted by: bjarneornThey DISCRIMINATE between the "people of God", and "infidels".

THERE IS NO GREATER DISCRIMINATION, than that.

I agree. Discrimination begs arbitration. The vocabulary of the law has been replaced with the vocabulary of discrimination. No longer are graduates versed in Law, rights, and tort. And, if i'm not mistaken, duty is more a colloquialism for relieving oneself than a word for reciprocal obligations to the State. Or family for that matter.

We, as a people, used to respect Architects, Lawyers, and Engineers. Now the world is defined by pop culture and admiration is cast towards Actors, Athletes, and Artists. Nothing reported has the correct proportion to reality, and many things that really happen are never reported. The public has its voice trapped in the echo chamber. With the occasional politician trying to get their voice to bounce around the room. But it's never really our voice.

Meanwhile a bank just evicted someone.


Mike Grouchy

originally posted by: mysterioustranger
You say you've not even read the book you're discussing. That seems a bit odd. You're basing your thread on others interpretations, research, comments, opinions and conjecture.

Its like describing how a new car rides, handles and feels without having driven it. Pointless. You haven't done the minimum work : by reading it. So I wouldn't care to share in this topic.

Had you done the minimum required for your opinion, I would be greatly interests how you feel. But, you admit you haven't.

And, for that reason: I'm OUT. Good luck though....MS

I have read summaries of what is contained in The Protocols, but yes I have not actually read the actual text in full. Still, I have always been fascinated by the claim that it is a hoax or a forgery and the tendency of many to dismiss it as such without examining it critically.

As a student of philosophy, I have learned that one can entertain a thought/idea without endorsing or accepting it. Examining a topic of discussion to quench intellectual curiosity and to acquire knowledge is a virtue I value rather highly.

If you had peeked at my thread topics history, you will see that I enjoy making threads that usually require people to think critically and try to avoid asserting my own views at the beginning as not to influence their views.

I know there are extremely intelligent people on ATS — far more so than myself — whose opinions I admire and respect. I would rather these types of people's views flood my threads than it be full of a monologue of my own. I visit this website to learn, reflect and relate to other people's experiences.

a reply to: mikegrouchy
Everyone points the finger elsewhere - some people think Judaism is behind the Protocols, some people say Catholic Jesuits, some people say Self-Worshipping Illuminati, some people say Atheist Communists, some people think Satanists.

I think anyone who worships Power is in on it. And that encompasses a lot of ideologies.


You did a wonderful write-up by the way, I missed it the first time through

If the Protocols were created by the Tsars police then they were very accurate and as relevant then as now.

Grand logic. A certain group created it so it is accurate. No group has ever attempted to mislead people.

originally posted by: TheLaughingGod
I always feel like some people are missing the point when discussing the Protocols, it's pretty important to determine whether it's a hoax or not. But the main thing I take away from it isn't whether it's a hoax or not; it's that some shady group is definitely using these techniques on the masses.

I'm not sure if a 'shady group' is using these techniques, or if people like to believe that in a way to vindicate their own opinions.

Is it a hoax? Given that it practically copies a tract against Napoleon III (as discussed by others in this thread) but angled as though written by a Jewish sect then hoax is a particularly good word. Is it a forgery? Technically not, but plagiarise it most certainly does.

As for the 'techniques', you only need to read The Prince by Machiavelli, or to some extent the art of war by Sun Tzu to see a lot of the phrases used, or at least the essence of them is hardly new and unknowingly you may be practising a fair few of them to some level or another yourself in either your personal or working life.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

Thank you. I too am here to learn and have researched issues and...using critical thinking as you've suggested...made an observation on those topics. It was always better to have read those books or topics 1sy so it be known my opinion was 1st based on my interpretating of what I read, and supplemented by the observations of others.

I would like to know you're opinion of the written words on this topic instead of parroting the opinions of others with your own interpretations, while not having the intake of reading the work(s) yourself.

It would be interesting to know if you felt the same way after you've read yourself.

Nice thread though. Well presented. Thanks.

MS

An interesting topic indeed
a reply to: Dark Ghost

How on earth did this thread make it to four pages? The Protocols are a hoax - as has been known for almost a hundred years. Case long since closed.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
How on earth did this thread make it to four pages? The Protocols are a hoax - as has been known for almost a hundred years. Case long since closed.

Hoax Despite being shown to be a hoax as far back as 1921,[1] it is still distributed and believed by people who swallow whatever fiction fits with their racist views.[2]

Some people apparently want to ignore the facts!

In addition to its exposure as a forgery (by journalist Robert Graves of The Times) in 1921, a pamphlet containing three essays by Lucien Wolf called The Myth of the Jewish Menace in World Affairs debunking the Protocols was released in the same year.[3] A Swiss judge ruled the pamphlet to be a forgery in a 1935 decision in a case known as the Berne trial.[4]

rationalwiki.org...

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: trollz



Except Murdock is not a Jew. Anyway, apart from that glaring inaccuracy...


Rupert's father Sir Keith Murdoch
attained his prominent position in Australian society through a fortuitous marriage to the daughter of a wealthy Jewish family, née Elisabeth Joy Greene. Through his wife's connections, Keith Murdoch was subsequently promoted from reporter to chairman of the British-owned newspaper where he worked. There was enough money to buy himself a knighthood of the British realm, two newspapers in Adelaide, South Australia, and a radio station in a faraway mining town. For some reason, Murdoch has always tried to hide the fact that his pious mother brought him up as a Jew...

And that, as I am sure you know, makes him a Jew according to the law of the Talmud, and indeed according to the present laws of Israel.

It's real..... and if it IS a forgery then it's a very prescient one.

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: bjarneorn

Sorry, but the Protocols are no book comparable with the Bible, or Koran.

They are a work of fiction designed to stoke up anti-Semitism. You are correct though in that the Protocols are still used today and the purpose of anti-Semitism rolls on. The main "users" of the messages are Islamic countries and even Hamas contains the Protocols in their Constitution.

The Protocols were written to breed hatred and distrust. They worked then, and they continue to pollute today. Made worse by people who seem to think they have a worthy message.

I just wanted to weigh in with my two cents, and you, my dear, have expressed them perfectly.

originally posted by: Truthspoon
It's real..... and if it IS a forgery then it's a very prescient one.

No - and no.

originally posted by: Truthspoon
It's real..... and if it IS a forgery then it's a very prescient one.

It IS a forgery, and the reason it is persistent is Jew haters just love to hate and push this hoax.

a reply to: hellobruce

I will avoid commenting too much on a book I never read entirely.
Can someone quote a few extracts so that we can all see how inaccurate is the content or, if it is just another collection of statements that shouldn't be said out loud ...

originally posted by: hellobruce
It IS a forgery, and the reason it is persistent is Jew haters just love to hate and push this hoax.

Wait a moment, so you are saying it is both a forgery and a hoax?