When Bob Lazar Declared Gravity As a Wave

The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in the early 1900's.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.


Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Source: www.grantchronicles.com...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

And now he sells plutonium and other science related stuff on an online store, kind of reminds me of the good ole doc brown from back to the future.

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

... and it's not a dichotomy between either wave or particle. There are both at the same time.

... and these aren't waves that make up gravity, they are waves IN gravity.

Lazar didn't get 115 right either.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

I have to ask as a neutral party here as I dont care about bob lazar more then just some guy insaw on sightings back in the 90's, if he was such an idiot as everyone makes him to be and people went well out of their way *cough Stanton Friedman cough* to make it appear as though he was basically educated, how would element 115 and gravity waves been an inevitable conclusion for someone no better educated then most 11th graders from a year ago?
I'm not stupid but i never looked at gravity waves as being an inevitable discovery.

ETA: When I asked this question the poster didn't have all that other stuff added JS

I see us living in an electric universe....had to be waves

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

... and it's not a dichotomy between either wave or particle. There are both at the same time.

... and these aren't waves that make up gravity, they are waves IN gravity.

Lazar didn't get 115 right either.

Thank you.

originally posted by: bananasam
Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer

Not so fast.

A lot of Lazar's assertions (if not all) are directly from the hard science fiction that sprung from the Golden Age of science fiction. Many "hard science fiction" authors became popular in the late 1940's and 1950's, with incredible story lines based on insanely speculative but plausible science.

Hal Clement wrote about gravity lenses that could focus gravity waves in the early 1950's.

Gravity waves/manipulation were a common theme with Poul Anderson.

Robert Heinlein used gravity waves a lot, in one story (Number of the Beast?) they were used to travel between parallel universes.

Lazar's "assertions" were well in-line with a fan of hard science fiction.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord
When I was in the Marines I had a buddy that read a lot of old Sci fi novels, in one of them he came over an shown me a narrative written about bob lazar being a child guest on bozo the clown, I actually think it was a dune novel but your post reminded me of that.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

That's really good information. I would like to make it clear though, that just because it was in a science fiction novel, does it not mean it came from a science fiction novel.

originally posted by: Brotherman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

I have to ask as a neutral party here as I dont care about bob lazar more then just some guy insaw on sightings back in the 90's, if he was such an idiot as everyone makes him to be and people went well out of their way *cough Stanton Friedman cough* to make it appear as though he was basically educated, how would element 115 and gravity waves been an inevitable conclusion for someone no better educated then most 11th graders from a year ago?
I'm not stupid but i never looked at gravity waves as being an inevitable discovery.

ETA: When I asked this question the poster didn't have all that other stuff added JS

Element 115 was first described, theoretically, in 1975 by Burkhard Fricke in this paper. The predictions in the paper are far more accurate than Lazar's. The paper also existed well before Lazar's claims and was somewhat famous at the time (among a particular group).

Now we know a lot more about 115 and it has nothing like the properties Lazar suggested. The 115 number and Ununpentium name existed well before Lazar.

Similarly, gravitational waves are a prediction of Einstein's relativity, a proof that it works as theorized. They have been damn hard to detect, partially because they 'wave reality like a flag' so everything we try to use to detect them gets wobbled around by the same amount.

a reply to: bananasam

My point is, Lazar's "science" predates Lazar. Ed didn't originate any he says.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Thank you.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Brotherman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: bananasam
The media was celebrating this week about the groundbreaking discovery that gravitational waves are real and not just a theory formed by Einstein in 1918.

30 years ago, Bob Lazar told the press that the propulsion systems he worked on used gravitational waves. It gets more interesting when you realize that he actually insisted they were the correct theory. And also this is the 2nd theory that came true from him after the discovery of Element 115. This one is more amazing though because in some ways you could say Element 115 was inevitable.

Here's an excerpt:

Lazar: There are currently two main theories about gravity. The "wave" theory which states that gravity is a wave and the other is a theory which includes "gravitons", which are alleged sub-atomic particles which perform as gravity, which by the way, is total nonsense.

Lazar: Anyway, gravity is a wave and there are two different types of gravity. Gravity A and gravity B. Gravity A works on a small or "micro" scale and gravity B works on a larger or "macro" scale. We're familiar with gravity B...

Lazar had his fair share of criticisms, but out of every single person in this UFO research, at least 2 of his quantifiable assertions have come true before anyone knew the answer - one of which is almost a century old.

Gravity waves were also fairly inevitable. Just hard to detect.

I have to ask as a neutral party here as I dont care about bob lazar more then just some guy insaw on sightings back in the 90's, if he was such an idiot as everyone makes him to be and people went well out of their way *cough Stanton Friedman cough* to make it appear as though he was basically educated, how would element 115 and gravity waves been an inevitable conclusion for someone no better educated then most 11th graders from a year ago?
I'm not stupid but i never looked at gravity waves as being an inevitable discovery.

ETA: When I asked this question the poster didn't have all that other stuff added JS

Element 115 was first described, theoretically, in 1975 by Burkhard Fricke in this paper. The predictions in the paper are far more accurate than Lazar's. The paper also existed well before Lazar's claims and was somewhat famous at the time (among a particular group).

Now we know a lot more about 115 and it has nothing like the properties Lazar suggested. The 115 number and Ununpentium name existed well before Lazar.

Similarly, gravitational waves are a prediction of Einstein's relativity, a proof that it works as theorized. They have been damn hard to detect, partially because they 'wave reality like a flag' so everything we try to use to detect them gets wobbled around by the same amount.

So all that stuff you mentioned made it an inevitable conclusion for Lazar to come too? Like I said before I dont care either way about Lazar, I dont believe aliens visit earth either. I am just saying its possible he came up with this stuff from where he supposedly worked at too, I can certainly buy the SciFi angle an all that stuff too but do you really think a basically educated Lazar was reading papers that accurately describe 115 in his spare time to make up something about the same thing and go on tv with it?
I just playing devils advocate here.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Lazar's "assertions" were well in-line with a fan of hard science fiction.

Man I had no idea about that. It makes a TON of sense though.

I may have to check out this Golden Age hard science fiction. Just finished my first hard science fiction novel (Blindsight by Watts, I think it was anyway) and really enjoyed it.

a reply to: Domo1

Here are some suggestions...

These aren't from the "golden age," where science often took a back seat, but are direct second generation brilliance inspired by that era.

Cosm by Bregory Benford who also happens to be a talented theoretical physicist. This book is mind-blowing.

Dragon’s Egg by Robert L. Forward. When you read this, you'll be reminded of Lazar.

Foundation series by Isaac Asimov. Everyone should read these.

Mission of Gravity by Hal Clement. Could be Lazar's science handbook.

Rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C. Clarke. Masterpiece.

Ringworld by Larry Niven. I think this is the novel (written in 1970) where a craft very similar to Lazar's "Sports Model" is described. If not, it's another by Larry Niven.

How bout Einstein predicted gravity as a wave and other physicists as well. I cant remember the name , but a research facility to detect gravity waves was in operation in the late 70s. No big surprise from this one

If light is a particle and a wave, why not gravity ? But , the one thing I notice in the OP about Lazar is the gravitons and his denial. So gravity cannot exist as a particle. That is my opposition to Lazar in the OP

a reply to: Gothmog

How bout Einstein predicted gravity as a wave and other physicists as well.

Einstein did not "predict gravity as a wave." His equations said that variations in gravity could propagate through spacetime as waves. Saying gravity is a wave is sort of like saying the ocean is a wave.

but a research facility to detect gravity waves was in operation in the late 70s.

And it was not sensitive enough to detect them.

If light is a particle and a wave, why not gravity ?

Because light is radiation and gravity is a field.

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

Hey thanks! Really appreciate it! Ringworld sounds awesome!

Actually going back to Asimov. Started awhile ago, got busy and didn't want to re-read and have that semi fresh aftertaste, but now I've hopefully forgotten enough to enjoy it again from the start. I just Googled it, I can't believe it's that old!

Do you think that these works of fiction had measurable impacts on humanities progress?

a reply to: Domo1

Ringworld sounds awesome!

Niven came up with a lot of stuff. Ringworld is part of what is known as his "known space" stories. Kzinti and Puppeteers and Moties, oh my.
A bit after the real "golden age" though, I think.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Gothmog

How bout Einstein predicted gravity as a wave and other physicists as well.

Einstein did not "predict gravity as a wave." His equations said that variations in gravity could propagate through spacetime as waves.

but a research facility to detect gravity waves was in operation in the late 70s.

And it was not sensitive enough to detect them.

If light is a particle and a wave, why not gravity ?

Because light is radiation and gravity is a field.

You've gotta love Phage... Deals in nothing but hard, direct, blunt-force fact! lol

In regards to Lazar, I'm keeping an open mind on the whole thing. Sure you could say 'gravity waves were inevitable' and that he was a Sci-Fi fan but you still can't deny that the coincidences in his past comments compared to recent discoveries are very intriguing. Maybe he was just an over enthusiastic Science Fiction lover, if so then he did well to pick up on a couple of points out of the whole genre which in some way or another became science fact. And even if the properties he described for element 115 were not 100% correct, he managed to get my attention with it's potential existence well before the mainstream did.

That's just my 2 cents on the subject anyway....