When Bob Lazar Declared Gravity As a Wave

I get a kick out of the Lazar bashers who need to go out of their way to discredit him. Perhaps his understanding of science and physics isn't the greatest but it's obvious he was employed by the government in some form or fashion. Whether he was a disinformation agent, a tool for disclosure or simply a creative mind with a fresh perspective working on secret stuff at Los Alamos is up for debate. The government paid him for some reason, so let's not write him off so quickly.

originally posted by: Tuomptonite
I get a kick out of the Lazar bashers who need to go out of their way to discredit him. Perhaps his understanding of science and physics isn't the greatest but it's obvious he was employed by the government in some form or fashion.

Maybe he worked for the government in some fashion, but what part of what he said about alien craft or propulasion science is verifiable with evidence?

It's certainly not his description of element 115, and his "gravity wave generator". Both element 115 and gravitational waves had been predicted for decades prior to Bob Lazar making any mention of them. All Lazar would have needed to do to learn about the predictions of the existence of element 115 or gravitational waves would be to read some scientific journals that were available for anyone to read.

On top of it all, his descriptions of element 115 and gravitational waves doesn't even match what science had since learned of these things. It seems likely to me he heard the buzzword "Gravitational waves" and of the predicted existence of yet-undiscovered elements such as element 115 and just thought using them as part of some technobabble would fool some people into thinking he knows something ("baffle the with bullcrap", as some people say). However, it turns out that it was in fact nothing but bullcrap, because the reality of element 115 and gravitational waves doesn't match his technobabble.

Seriously, what has Lazar ever said that makes it seem he in fact knows secrets of alien propulsion? I don't get why some people just blindly believe what he says. Is it simply because Lazar claims are "cool and alternative alien-related stuff"? If so, that's not a good reason; anyone can make up "cool and alternative alien-related stuff".

a reply to: Box of Rain

I don't get why some people just blindly believe what he says.

It usually has something to do with, "why would he lie?"

I remember that he said that the alien craft had three "emitters" in them and that they used a propulsion of gravity waves and depending upon the frequency used, allowed space travel. That these emitters used a power source called element 115. What is interesting is the discovery of both.

And to say that their discovery was inevitable is like saying that the light bulb was inevitable because someone saw lightning. Knowing one thing does not assume the other to be known, at least not within a reasonably short period of time.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Box of Rain

I don't get why some people just blindly believe what he says.

It usually has something to do with, "why would he lie?"

Yeah, well, there are some people who just lie to lie. Those people get a thrill out of having other people believe the lies they tell.

Others liars may not even consciously know that they are lying -- or if the do, their consciousness buries the realization of it being a lie because lying is just one normal way in which their brains operate.

Or sometimes it may just be a delusion.

originally posted by: Fromabove
I remember that he said that the alien craft had three "emitters" in them and that they used a propulsion of gravity waves and depending upon the frequency used, allowed space travel. That these emitters used a power source called element 115. What is interesting is the discovery of both.

And to say that their discovery was inevitable is like saying that the light bulb was inevitable because someone saw lightning. Knowing one thing does not assume the other to be known, at least not within a reasonably short period of time.

The possible existence of element 115 and gravitational waves were not just "inevitable" -- they were specifically predicted by since long before Bob Lazar.

As I said, any high school chemistry book prior to Lazar could have included the predicted existence of element 115, and gravitational waves were something that had been predicted by name decades before Lazar was even born.

Lazar didn't need to know any secrets to discuss Element 115 and gravitational waves. All he needed to do was read a few science papers that anyone else at the time could have read.

Getting back to element 115...there are placeholders on the periodic table for other yet-to-be discovered elements that science predict do exist. For example, element 120 has not yet been discovered, but science says it most likely does exist. However, if I make the claim now that element 120 exists, that doesn't make me prophetic when science does eventually confirm element 120. It just means I listened in high school chemistry class.

He is proving he is legit, point after point...

originally posted by: Substracto
He is proving he is legit, point after point...

Yes. Oh wait, you mean Lazar? No, the measurement of gravitational waves has proven, once again, that Einstein was right.

Lazar, not so much. Gravity is not a wave. Lazar was wrong about that.

Bob Lazar is an interesting character, I keep seeing more information come out that supposedly supports his claims rather then debunks it. I haven't seen any threads or articles that definitively debunks him either, aside from the typical "he learned it from sci-fi comics" bit.

But I like how the staff usually chimes into these Lazar/Project Camelot type videos so early.

a reply to: Konduit

I keep seeing more information come out that supposedly supports his claims rather then debunks it.

Actually, those who understand the information and don't have confirmation bias toward Lazar know better.

originally posted by: Substracto
He is proving he is legit, point after point...

Can you explain what you mean?

His description of gravitational waves is nothing at all like the physics behind the gravitational waves that have possibly been detected recently. His description of element 115 is nothing close to the real element 115.

What other points of his are there that you claim has been proven legit? As other mentioned above, mainstream science predicted gravitational waves and element 115 long before Lazar.

His mentions of "gravitational waves" and "Element 115" could have just been parroting things he read in a some Scientific American magazines when he was a kid.

a reply to: Phage

The key word is "supposedly".

If anyone has any articles or information with definitive proof that debunks Lazar please share, I'm legitimately interested.

a reply to: Konduit

Ah. You want him to be proven wrong. Good plan.

Well, he did claim that gravity is a wave. That is quite contrary to what Einstein said about it. And Einstein has often been proven to be right. Does that count?

originally posted by: Konduit
a reply to: Phage

The key word is "supposedly".

If anyone has any articles or information with definitive proof that debunks Lazar please share, I'm legitimately interested.

I'm going to claim that gin and porcupines can be combined in a specific way that the combination can create antigravity for spacecraft propulsion.

Prove me wrong. If you can't, then that means I must be on to something.

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People
DPPS

Drunken porcupine propulsion system. With a breath of vermouth, please.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People
DPPS

Drunken porcupine propulsion system. With a breath of vermouth, please.

and stirred, so as not to bruise the gin.

Well, maybe "gin and porcupines" is a silly example. Here's a more analogous example to Bob Lazar's clams:

"Element 120 combined with a Higgs Field can be used to generate antigravity propulsion"

...prove me wrong.


Neither element 120 nor the Higgs Filed have yet to be discovered, but they are predicted by some models -- just like gravitational waves and element 115 were already predicted by science long before Lazar made his claims.

So if a time comes that element 120 is discovered (which is very likely) and the Higgs Field is discovered (which many say is likely), would that mean that people in the future will hail this post of mine as a sign of my greatness?

...Or will they realize the truth, and know that maybe I simply read Scientific American Magazine or Popular Science and saw articles that mentioned element 120 and the Higgs Field?

a reply to: Phage

I like mine 115 proof

a reply to: SkepticOverlord

While this is all true and all that jazz , I personally believe that an in depth linear tracing of his information and line of thought (not that he even thinks he's always right) would cause most rational minds to conclude that he is right on.
At least I think so anyways.
That's really all I want to say here on this for now but rock on Skep this site has always had its gems sir !

a reply to: bananasamI wonder how many ats posters in the last 10 years said the same thing that boblazar said and others,just because he is on utube or tv doesn't make him the first one or better than the average person.

originally posted by: Fromabove

And to say that their discovery was inevitable is like saying that the light bulb was inevitable because someone saw lightning. Knowing one thing does not assume the other to be known, at least not within a reasonably short period of time.

With all due respect. What you wrote there just shows your ignorance about science.

Physicists don't usually just make things up randomly and then try to prove themselves right. If they have to guess, they make educated ones from the scientific knowledge at the time. Einstein's predictions about G waves were part of a larger theory and if the theory turned out to be correct (as it was ) then, yes, their discovery was inevitable.

Same with the periodic table. Read up about it. It's one of the most beautiful things ever devised by science /man. There is order to it. The gaps they had were filled with elements having properties that they EXPECTED precisecely because of the nature of the table.

So again, yes..115 was always going to be discovered at some point in the future. Sorry to burst this ridiculous image that many on ATS have that science is all guesswork and stabs in the dark