FBI Release full unedited video of Finicum shooting

originally posted by: matafuchs
This was, to put it simply, nothing more than straight up murder.

Garbage, all it was is a nutter, who vowed he would not be arrested fulfilling his fantasy.

I did not see him pull a weapon.

He went for his weapon several times, which will get you shot by police anywhere.

a reply to: hellobruce

Bottom line - can you prove he was going for a weapon? Are there evidence photos of him with a hung up semi auto pistol in his pocket?

He may as well have been clutching a wound. Even if he was going for a weapon, can you prove he was shot with his hands up then went for a gun?

From this video you cant. I am eager for more evidence with audio because both sides will claim their opinion of what happened are fact when in fact neither side can be proven from this footage...

a reply to: hellobruce

A nutter or not, that is like saying he was gang banger so he knew what was coming. We are all citizens and should be innocent till proven guilty.

Second, he did not 'pull' a weapon.

This means that if you are a CWP in any state, if they walk up on you and they 'think' you have a weapon because you are in the system as a concealed carrier, they can open fire? There are precedents here being sent.

If his dumb ass stepped out of the vehicle firing, there is no excuse.

Where is the DASHCAM footage?

a reply to: matafuchs

You don't need the dashcam to see him reach for his waist, and doing that when cops are pointing guns at you is a pretty silly move. You brought up Brown and how much you had to hear about him, well I heard the phrase "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". Seems like that should be applied here.

I do agree I would like to see the dashcam, but you don't need that to see him walk out with his hands up at a point and then drop them down to his waist.

a reply to: matafuchs

That is a very good question where is the Dash Cam footage?

What are they hiding, that will make them look bad?

a reply to: Informer1958

What are they hiding, that will make them look bad?

You assume they are hiding something? Of course you do.

Has anyone said there is dashcam video? I mean besides people on ATS.

Audio would be nice too.
Unless of course the Oregon State Police and the FBI don't use radios.
Who says they do, right?

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: hellobruce



Where is the DASHCAM footage?

Dashcams are aimed forward along the axis of the vehicle. Were there any vehicles pointing toward the shooting site?

ETA: The chase car that followed LaVoy, et al., may have been oriented to capture video but I don't know if the field of view would be wide enough to show anything because the truck was partway up the hill.

a reply to: Sremmos80

Look, I am not saying that pointing or drawing on a LEO is advisable but in this situation isn't it like MAD for the nuclear option. IS he a martyr or was he killed by someone that was on the inside with the FBI.

It is just not sitting right. May be nothing but not sitting right.

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Sremmos80

Look, I am not saying that pointing or drawing on a LEO is advisable but in this situation isn't it like MAD for the nuclear option. IS he a martyr or was he killed by someone that was on the inside with the FBI.

It is just not sitting right. May be nothing but not sitting right.

He was murdered.

What crime or violation was being committed when they were pulled over? Crossed a double yellow? Speeding? Taillight was out?

Was a warrant issued? Was it shown when they were pulled over? Why set up a roadblock in an area that had no cellphone coverage? Why were they not arrested when they were all in the Sheriff's Office? Why not wait for them in John day and arrest them at the meeting?

This was the Federal Government using bully tactics yet again, but this time we have a video of it.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
Was a warrant issued?

So you think a warrant is needed every time the police pull a nutter over?

Why set up a roadblock in an area that had no cellphone coverage?

Now you are just babbling, what does has a roadblock have to do with cellphone coverage?

They could of arrested LaVoy at anytime. He invited them to come down and talk. Hell, he was camped sleeping outside right at the front entrance to the refuge. He was there at the sheriffs office. They all drove down to meet with the feds and state police numerous times over. Instead they wanted to make a big show of how they had to take down hardened criminal LaVoy that did nothing, but stand up to his rights. Meanwhile, you have people like Hillary breaking the laws all day. When is the FBI going to arrest Hillary? Where is that law and order and duty now?

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: matafuchs


I do agree I would like to see the dashcam, but you don't need that to see him walk out with his hands up at a point and then drop them down to his waist.

Are those vehicles equipped with dashcams? They are not common in small towns.

Seems to me that dashcams lack audio and when we hear audio it is from officer mics? Or if they do have audio it would be with poor quality directional microphones..

And as long as we are talking directional...which one of those police vehicles is facing LaVoy?? None.

The only vehicle that possibly was angled where a camera would make a difference would be maybe the pursuit vehicle..maybe...and that was not a patrol vehicle, but tacticle vehicle, no dash-cam.

Looking at that video, I'd be interested in any of the "dash cam" demanders to explain where the potential dash cam vehicle is?

originally posted by: sean
They could of arrested LaVoy at anytime.

Really strange thing to say, because with guns in hand LaVoy repeatedly said the precise opposite. He knew there was a warrant for his arrest and he repeatedly told reporters and fellow militia members he would die before being arrested.

Instead they wanted to make a big show of how they had to take down hardened criminal LaVoy that did nothing, but stand up to his rights.

They wanted to make the arrest away from the women and children that the militia had with them at the refuge...which is a whole different discussion.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: Sremmos80

Look, I am not saying that pointing or drawing on a LEO is advisable but in this situation isn't it like MAD for the nuclear option. IS he a martyr or was he killed by someone that was on the inside with the FBI.

It is just not sitting right. May be nothing but not sitting right.

He was murdered.

What crime or violation was being committed when they were pulled over? Crossed a double yellow? Speeding? Taillight was out?

There was a felony warrant out for LaVoy's arrest. LaVoy was aware of the same. He had explained it to reporters.

This was a felony warrant arrest. They don't need a broken tail-light to arrest someone with a felony warrant out for their arrest. Your post seems dishonest or misinformed to suggest otherwise.

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: hellobruce



Where is the DASHCAM footage?

Dashcams are aimed forward along the axis of the vehicle. Were there any vehicles pointing toward the shooting site?

ETA: The chase car that followed LaVoy, et al., may have been oriented to capture video but I don't know if the field of view would be wide enough to show anything because the truck was partway up the hill.

As best I can tell, the chase vehicle was tactical..not patrol...either feds or swat, and would not have dash-cam.

originally posted by: sean
They could of arrested LaVoy at anytime. He invited them to come down and talk. Hell, he was camped sleeping outside right at the front entrance to the refuge. He was there at the sheriffs office. They all drove down to meet with the feds and state police numerous times over. Instead they wanted to make a big show of how they had to take down hardened criminal LaVoy that did nothing, but stand up to his rights. Meanwhile, you have people like Hillary breaking the laws all day. When is the FBI going to arrest Hillary? Where is that law and order and duty now?

The Feds wanted the Bundy's and the rest of the leadership in one net. Why catch a small fish and tip the rest off?

originally posted by: matafuchs

Where is the DASHCAM footage?

originally posted by: Informer1958

That is a very good question where is the Dash Cam footage?

I think if you look at the video, to the right of Finicum and the truck, in the area between the vehicles forming the roadblock, that you will see an officer with a video camera recording the entire incident. Even if there were vehicles equipped with dashcams, I'm not sure any of those would have been positioned to catch it all.

originally posted by: sean
They could of arrested LaVoy at anytime. He invited them to come down and talk. Hell, he was camped sleeping outside right at the front entrance to the refuge. He was there at the sheriffs office. They all drove down to meet with the feds and state police numerous times over. Instead they wanted to make a big show of how they had to take down hardened criminal LaVoy that did nothing, but stand up to his rights. Meanwhile, you have people like Hillary breaking the laws all day. When is the FBI going to arrest Hillary? Where is that law and order and duty now?

I hope this helps in understanding why this operation unfolded when and where it did. I've posted this before and I am not trying to sway anyone's views for or against what occurred (I have my own complex, many-leveled view) but Stewart Rhodes of Oathkeepers was receiving critical and, what was to him, reliable intel that there was a military raid being planned on the refuge. Can you imagine what would have occurred at the refuge if that was approved? I shudder to think of it. He implored the military and FEDS, etc., to not go through with it and to treat the situation in a different manner. On January 15, 2016 this letter was posted to his website:

Critical warning

originally posted by: tweetie

originally posted by: sean
They could of arrested LaVoy at anytime. He invited them to come down and talk. Hell, he was camped sleeping outside right at the front entrance to the refuge. He was there at the sheriffs office. They all drove down to meet with the feds and state police numerous times over. Instead they wanted to make a big show of how they had to take down hardened criminal LaVoy that did nothing, but stand up to his rights. Meanwhile, you have people like Hillary breaking the laws all day. When is the FBI going to arrest Hillary? Where is that law and order and duty now?

I hope this helps in understanding why this operation unfolded when and where it did. I've posted this before and I am not trying to sway anyone's views for or against what occurred (I have my own complex, many-leveled view) but Stewart Rhodes of Oathkeepers was receiving critical and, what was to him, reliable intel that there was a military raid being planned on the refuge. Can you imagine what would have occurred at the refuge if that was approved? I shudder to think of it. He implored the military and FEDS, etc., to not go through with it and to treat the situation in a different manner. On January 15, 2016 this letter was posted to his website:

Critical warning

I read the letter and it is unprofessional and insulting. It makes vague threats and is a feel good piece for true believers to revel in. Stewart didn't want to let this opportunity pass without a little Oathkeepers puffery. They probably also warned off the Russians with statements about kicking Spetsnaz butts and look what happened --- no invasion. Yep, these guys do it all.
What they should have done was to reason through it and show how a raid would cause many deaths for no real gain. If there are professionals involved in Oathkeepers, they should have written a professional letter and not a series of sophomoric threats.
The Governor of Oregon was playing in this, too and that was a complicating factor. Stewart seems to think that there is some single-minded, monolithic Government and obviously doesn't understand much other than how to antagonize the people he is trying to influence.....if they even read his letter.