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FBI Release full unedited video of Finicum shooting

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posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: RickyD
I am just going on what I saw in the video and trying to block out the early accounts. I don't have audio unfortunately so you lose out on the main focal point. When the shooting starts is what I can not tell and without that the video doesn't clear a damn thing up to me. Just shows a guy dying in the snow and a jeep that somehow keeps on backing out...while being blasted by many rounds and is flashbanged as well which to me is LOL worthy. It's like watching 12yo kids play call of duty...


No audio in the video. Also, there is no real visual evidence of the truck being shot up. You see a couple flashbangs and a few gas rounds. Thats it.

He refused to follow lawful orders.
He fled, endangering his passengers and everyone around him.
He nearly smashed into a road block. They could've opened fire at this point.
He nearly killed an FBI agent avoiding the road block. Again they could've opened fire at this point.
He again refused to follow orders. Again they could've opened fire at this point and it would've been legitimate.
He reached to his side/pocket 3 not 2 times (replay the video and look real close). The first time was enough to have him shot on the spot.

As there is no audio you do not know all of the story but as the video stands this was justified through and through. All else is just hearsay and wouldn't hold up in the court of law.




posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:28 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: DelMarvel
I really don't understand your point. So if they're an adult, they can't be innocent?


Sure. However, if they are an adult and part of an armed occupation of a federal building they aren't innocent. If they choose to get in a vehicle with armed men who are part of a criminal conspiracy they aren't innocent.

How many people get the book thrown at them for actions a lot less serious than what ALL these people were involved in? Mary Anne Grady Flores got six months in jail for taking a picture at an unarmed protest against drone warfare. But a lot of these people are walking away while their supporters are screaming about the tyrannical federal government.

These radicals are actually getting the kid glove treatment from the government.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:32 PM
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a reply to: SkyNetBeware


Us code says threat of violence in breaking fed law is domestic terrorism.


And? Again, does the phrase color of law mean anything to you???


Had finicum surrendered properly he would be alive.


And if our elected officials and controlling legal authorities had done their jobs properly -- past and present -- Mr. Finicum would be alive today.

I have not and will not defend or promote or applaud Mr. Finicum's choices; but I do respect that he had the courage of his convictions.

And I will not ignore or condone the abuses of the feds.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: DelMarvel


if they are an adult and part of an armed occupation of a federal building they aren't innocent. If they choose to get in a vehicle with armed men who are part of a criminal conspiracy they aren't innocent.


Well, apparently the legal authorities thought differently.

Still doesn't excuse the bad behavior of the feds -- past, present and (thanks to those who try to make excuses for them) future.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:41 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: DelMarvel


if they are an adult and part of an armed occupation of a federal building they aren't innocent. If they choose to get in a vehicle with armed men who are part of a criminal conspiracy they aren't innocent.

Well, apparently the legal authorities thought differently.


They "thought differently" because they want to do as little as possible to piss off these religious extremists who are associated with a very large and powerful church.

If these had been anarchist kids (for just one example) doing something like this the outcome would have almost certainly been a lot different.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: Discotech
a reply to: tweetie

Thanks, missed that. Guess they deployed it a little late ?

Also apparently it is standard procedure to have barricades close to bends to stop planning how to avoid it so we can scrap that even if it seems illogical when it puts people behind the barricade at risk


Apparently.

I think everyone involved in or paying attention has learned a lot from this event even if the lessons were very harsh.

I'm probably alone in my perspective but this situation could have very easily turned into a firestorm at the refuge because the Feds wanted to do a raid and a whole lot of people behind the scenes from all levels worked very hard to avert that scenario. I can see some progress having been made this time in that the higher-ups were more willing to listen to the people instead of just stomping out the situation at the refuge with brute force as soon as possible. The reason I say that is because of all of the bits and pieces I came across throughout the stand-off from a wide variety of sources.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: pteridine

When everyone has left the refuge... when the feds have arrested everyone they want to arrest... are you going to demand the same accountability for the feds?


To the extent these guys have legit grievances against the government they have significantly hurt their cause with their actions.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:49 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: SkyNetBeware


Us code says threat of violence in breaking fed law is domestic terrorism.


And? Again, does the phrase color of law mean anything to you???


Had finicum surrendered properly he would be alive.


And if our elected officials and controlling legal authorities had done their jobs properly -- past and present -- Mr. Finicum would be alive today.

I have not and will not defend or promote or applaud Mr. Finicum's choices; but I do respect that he had the courage of his convictions.

And I will not ignore or condone the abuses of the feds.


Hitter had courage of his convictions.

That means nothing.

I vigorously oppose aholes who use violence to sway public policy. He had the chance to surrender over many many days and then ran a barricade and then ran around in the snow trying to escape or fight or whatever.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: SkyNetBeware


Us code says threat of violence in breaking fed law is domestic terrorism.


And? Again, does the phrase color of law mean anything to you???


Had finicum surrendered properly he would be alive.


And if our elected officials and controlling legal authorities had done their jobs properly -- past and present -- Mr. Finicum would be alive today.

I have not and will not defend or promote or applaud Mr. Finicum's choices; but I do respect that he had the courage of his convictions.

And I will not ignore or condone the abuses of the feds.


The FBI has guidelines published about color of law. You seem to think any idiot can just claim color of law and, voila! He's justified to ignore fed officials. I urge you to do that next time a gun is pointed at you and see how far your childish ideas take you.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 02:55 PM
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You: And if our elected officials and controlling legal authorities had done their jobs properly -- past and present -- Mr. Finicum would be alive today.

BS

This is all on the right wing idiots who think they can flaunt the law and expect no consequences.

Complete lack of personal responsibility.

Your hatred of the fed is excessive and marks you anti-American.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: arcnaver

originally posted by: RickyD
I am just going on what I saw in the video and trying to block out the early accounts. I don't have audio unfortunately so you lose out on the main focal point. When the shooting starts is what I can not tell and without that the video doesn't clear a damn thing up to me. Just shows a guy dying in the snow and a jeep that somehow keeps on backing out...while being blasted by many rounds and is flashbanged as well which to me is LOL worthy. It's like watching 12yo kids play call of duty...


No audio in the video. Also, there is no real visual evidence of the truck being shot up. You see a couple flashbangs and a few gas rounds. Thats it.

He refused to follow lawful orders.
What orders? Get off the land we took unlawfully from you & your friends?

He fled, endangering his passengers and everyone around him.
His passengers went willingly with him. It was the fbi/police who endangered their lives and ended his.

He nearly smashed into a road block. They could've opened fire at this point.
But he didn't, and why would they spray and prey a fast moving oncoming vehicle?

He nearly killed an FBI agent avoiding the road block. Again they could've opened fire at this point.
The agent dived towards the car. Ever seen that happen in police cam videos? No. Why would they open fire when one of their team was between them and the car?

He again refused to follow orders. Again they could've opened fire at this point and it would've been legitimate.
They could have arrested him at the camp on a number of charges. Seems like they wanted to silence him instead of arrest him.

He reached to his side/pocket 3 not 2 times (replay the video and look real close). The first time was enough to have him shot on the spot.

As there is no audio you do not know all of the story but as the video stands this was justified through and through. All else is just hearsay and wouldn't hold up in the court of law.
No audio equals no proof he wasn't shot first. And anyone who has been to court knows it's not about law or justice. It's always about money.

edit on 30-1-2016 by uktorah because: Typo



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: uktorah

You; What orders? Get off the land we took unlawfully from you & your friends?

That shows how clueless you are.

The Indians owned that land if it was illegally taken, it was from them.

The bundites were not from Oregon and not welcome.

They do not own public lands, we all do. But it is illegal to threaten violence and take over fed bldgs.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: pteridine

"We shall know them by the fruits of their labor." Believe what you will... and ignore what you will.

For the same reason and logic you want to hold the Bundy's and Mr. Finicum and others accountable for past actions and provocations, I demand the feds be held accountable for past actions and provocations. You seem to have a problem with that.

When everyone has left the refuge... when the feds have arrested everyone they want to arrest... are you going to demand the same accountability for the feds? I seriously doubt it, as you have expressed aboslutely no outrage for federal abuses, but demand full retribution for everyone else. And it's exactly because of those who will give a free pass to the feds, and who aid and abet and empower their abuse of power, that we are in this situation, and why I (and many others) refuse to "stand down."


The Feds will be accountable in court. If you do not like the court system, you may elect other representatives to change whatever laws you find egregious. My opinions concerning the Bundites are such that I am not convinced that they represent anyone or anything but a rancher who didn't want to pay rent on grazing lands and has dragged as many gullible fools as possible into his personal vendetta. By this account, I put every misguided soul that showed up to support the Bundys in the gullible fool category, including the now infamous LaVoy.
LaVoy got what he wanted and it has yet to be determined if the Bundy's will get what they want. They will probably get what they don't want, fines and imprisonment, but that is what happens when you break a contract and then resort to a publicity stunt that is also a felony to try and win over the public. This last didn't work, save for a few who don't understand what this was actually about and think it has something to with the BLM or FBI.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:24 PM
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Let's all keep in mind, everyone here participating in this forum has viewed this event from a cozy behind the screen overhead view. The officers/fbi and suspects were on ground level with first person perspectives. Very much different.



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:38 PM
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In the text I will include below is where LaVoy made his fateful decision NOT to surrender, staying true to his word. It could have gone either way at this point. I truly wish he had changed his mind then. This is where I differ with a lot of people who think he was murdered down the road at the barricade. I would call those few minutes the point of no return.

According to what Mark McConnell, the driver of the jeep, stated was told to him by Shawna Cox, who was riding with LaVoy, Ryan Payne had a heated discussion with LaVoy while the truck sat up the road a ways from the jeep for almost 4 minutes before LaVoy took off. Ryan Payne decided to listen to the commands being made to exit the truck and surrender before LaVoy fled. I can certainly imagine what the heated discussion was about and the FBI excerpt below mentions this period of time as far as maybe releasing more information.

While the truck was sitting there, up the road from the jeep, Victoria Sharp stated that LaVoy was trying to tell the LEO's he was going to meet the Sheriff. Of course they were not about to let LaVoy call the shots at that point. They intended to arrest him and there was no negotiation allowed as per law enforcement protocol.


Looking at the white truck... about four minutes into the video ... Ryan Payne exits through a back door. It's difficult to see behind the trees, but in the lower right hand corner you can see him with his hands up being approached by the law enforcement officers and being taken into custody.
There is a period of approximately 3 minutes and 47 seconds where the truck sits on the road. We have edited it for time here, but it is available in the raw, unedited version on the FBI's YouTube channel. Throughout this time, agents and troopers are providing verbal commands to the occupants to surrender. We can't comment on what may have been going on in the truck at this time, but those details may come out later as part of the overall shooting investigation.
When we come back to the video, the white truck leaves the scene at a high rate of speed. It travels some distance... quickly approaching a vehicle roadblock in the roadway.


FBI statement



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 04:40 PM
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Just want to ask why the LEO was hiding in the woods and then proceeds to shoot at the driver with his fellow LEOs in the line of fire!



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 05:04 PM
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originally posted by: WhateverYouSay
originally posted by: xuenchen

Where are you getting the evidence he was shot before he reached for his gun?

This was a man on record saying he'd rather be dead than in jail.


still from FBI video....





posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 05:12 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen

propaganda. there is no proof of any shots.

at 9:27 a full second before this still, he reaches for his jacket were he had a 9mm pistol

i get pulled over, i stop, stay in my car, put my hands up, sit still.

again, in case you people missed the discussion 8 pages ago, he did everything he could to get shot. then his followers call him a victim. the agenda is obvious.

xuen you can keep saying the same thing over and over, i can keep debunking it till i get bored. you are misinformation with an agenda.
edit on 30-1-2016 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-1-2016 by vjr1113 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
still from FBI video....


Funny how you "missed" when he reached into his pocket before then.... why did you miss that?



posted on Jan, 30 2016 @ 05:51 PM
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The Feds executed him in cold blood because they're thugs.




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