I’m a Christian first, American second

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain
Hmmmm, troubling. As a devout Agnostic I have a huge issue with living under a Christian version of Sharia Law.

Ted Cruz is looking more and more like an Imam every day.

No thanks

really? so if you feel so strongly you should be able to provide a list of religious decrees that he is on record as going to use the force of the executive branch to enforce. i mean if he is an imam right? issuing fatwas and all that.

I might have to say you are a hater. because only a hater would post such twaddle and act like it was true when it isn't and not even be ashamed of it.

"Hater"?

Of Presidential candidates saying they are of a RELIGIOUS faith before they are Americans, or before the Constitution?

Why yes, yes I am.

I award that post 4.99 out of five jackasses for prodigy levels of sheer jack assery. Congratulations.

Are you done?

originally posted by: BatheInTheFountain


Are you done?

i am still waiting for a list of promised fatwas.

i mean what is this theocracy you warn of gonna look like?

it must really be skerridifying for you to go on so about it...

His campaign app is also created by a firm that specializes in psychological warfare and I think they are based in the UK, too. I can only imagine what a bunch of ex-intelligence agents with Phd's in psychoanalysis could come up with. They probably have a strategy for every psychological profile.

I still don't see how this guy can even run for president seeing how he was born in Canada and held dual citizenship at one time. You can come up with whatever "moral" reasoning, but in the reasoning of the law I don't see how he qualifies.

As far as religion goes, I believe Obama is a 5%'er. Everyone thinks is Muslim, and the media spin machine wants to tell us he's Christian. I say he's a 5%'er, which has a little bit to do with Islam, but a great deal of it is from the mind of Clarence 13x who broke away from the Nation of Islam to start the 5%'ers.

Cruz's belief isn't any crazier than George W. Bush saying "God Spoke to Him". I bring that point up about Obama because it offers a great deal of insight into our current foreign policy. Cruz is pandering to the evangelicals that make up a broad percentage of the republican voting base.

Maybe that makes sense, or maybe you'll be confused by this post, just rambling, I guess.

Interesting take going on here.

For fun, I declare that I am an Individual before I am an American. Actually, I am a Nevadian before I am even an American. So what labels can we throw at me for not putting America "first"?!

Please don't take this as an endorsement for Senator Cruz. It isn't. It is an exercise in debate and discussion.

I wonder where he places human on that list... As an American Agnostic I'm already upset he wants to lead me while considering me second class compared to his fellow Christians. I wonder if he puts human above or below Christianity. I mean if he at least puts humanity as a whole above or equal to Christianity I'll know I'm not completely second class to him.

originally posted by: Puppylove
I wonder where he places human on that list... As an American Agnostic I'm already upset he wants to lead me while considering me second class compared to his fellow Christians. I wonder if he puts human above or below Christianity. I mean if he at least puts humanity as a whole above or equal to Christianity I'll know I'm not completely second class to him.

Again, not defending his words, but where did you infer he was going to lead you and consider you as a second class citizen? I believe there is a lot of projection going on here...

a reply to: ownbestenemy1

Because I'm assuming he's not a liar for this purpose. If he is, which is likely, I'm subhuman christian or not anyway as I'm not one of his super-Pac lobbyist buddies. But if I assume he's telling the truth about his priorities, then if ever the conflict between his status as an american or a christian come into conflict, christian wins, or he's a liar.

Finally, I believe in an America where religious intolerance will someday end; where all men and all churches are treated as equal; where every man has the same right to attend or not attend the church of his choice; where there is no Catholic vote, no anti-Catholic vote, no bloc voting of any kind; and where Catholics, Protestants and Jews, at both the lay and pastoral level, will refrain from those attitudes of disdain and division which have so often marred their works in the past, and promote instead the American ideal of brotherhood.

That is from a speech JFK made in the 60's.
Bigotry and intolerance live on today.

Anyone else see a larger problem with this whole deal? On the Republican side we had people of all different areas running for president. On the Democrat side America it's like the Democrats were told you're going to vote for Hillary, she's the nominee, but Bernie Sanders came out of left field and is giving her a run for her money. Which I find funny.

Anyway, I don't think Cruz would end up being anymore of a wack job president than anyone else, personally I think we have more to fear about the future of America with any candidate, but right now right America is giving us Cruz and Trump to choose from.

Cruz see's himself as a christian first and I'd image most of his voting base see themselves the same way. Myself, I've come to determine it's about the laws that govern a nation. You can be anything you want first, christian, alien, muslim, flying spaghetti monsterism, but what I know is that if I had a choice of another countries laws to live under, I'd choose to live under American laws everyday.

a reply to: shooterbrody

Sanders is Jewish, but I'm voting for him and I'm not Jewish. I married a christian at one point. No bigotry here. It's his priority order I have an issue with. I know where Bernie's priorities are and they aren't his religion first. They're in defense of we the people ourselves regardless of faith or lack thereof.

If your going to lead the people you need to lead all the people, which means, even if only temporary, you need to be willing to put all the people first and not your religion, or you are unfit to lead all those people. We are the United States, while he's leading, we, his fellow united states citizens must be number one. That's his job. If he places his status as a Christian above being a citizen of the united states, then he has no business leading the United States and especially not all the non-Christians in it

a reply to: Puppylove

I looked into Sanders he stated he practices no religion.

Not voting for someone only because of their religion or lack of is bigoted. It was no different when JFK had to make a speech about it.

a reply to: shooterbrody

It's not his religion that's the issue, it's where he prioritizes it that is. What part of that don't you get?

He works for we the people regardless of our religion, sex, sexuality or skin color. He can't prioritize his religion over we the people regardless of where we fall according to his religion. If it becomes a matter of his religious beliefs or our rights, he needs to be willing and able to put our rights first, each and every time.

a reply to: Puppylove

I don't think you understand how religion works. I am pretty sure most if not all religions put their higher power first on the priority list.

a reply to: BatheInTheFountain

I'll start with the disclaimer that I'm shocked a guy like Cruz can even win a small town Mayor election, and I would honestly be happier with a Clinton-Bush ticket (and trust me, I do NOT want either part of that decaying heap.

With that said, people don't seem to understand that the world doesn't operate in binary. Lines blur, decision processes are filtered through situations, etc. What I'm saying is, Cruz can consider himself a Christian first and American second and still fulfill the role of President (theoretically, not for real in his case.) As long as he doesn't allow his personal beliefs to get in the way of him doing his job, I don't see the problem.

Will be defend equal rights, even if it means defending then for gays and women? Will be be fiscally responsible, or will he give away all of our nation's wealth to feed the hungry and clothe the poor? Will he kill if necessary (via military, not necessarily by his own hand?) If he can still make decisions based on the best interests of the nation, and defend the Constitution, regardless of his religious beliefs, then there's nothing inherently wrong with him holding Christianity as his primary core , which his Americanism is fed and supported by.

Do I personally trust he will do the right thing if miraculously and tragically elected? No, but I could have said the same for 2 Bushes, Obama, and most of the candidates in these primaries.

a reply to: Skid Mark

Holy cow, you are helping perpetuate a myth...

"Separation of Church and State" exists NOWHERE in any of our legislative documents. It s not part of the Constitution. Jefferson wrote it, it is relatively implied in the First Amendment, but those words and that ideology make no appearance in the literal sense in any part of our history. If anything, that phrase guarantees that the government will not institute a state mandated religion.

Plain and simple.

Religion should never play in role in Politics or Business. It is a private thing and it should stay there.

I don't need to hear about your god and you don't need to hear about my god.

The American people should be very afraid of people like this.

a reply to: links234

You're implying...maybe intentionally, that because someone puts their "God" first means that they would break or ignore laws and reject the values of the country. I say that is not only not intended by his statement, but a jump by you to imply something you know to be false. I'm not religious but I would say I'm "family first". That doesn't mean that if I became President I would flood funds and laws that only support my family. Someone that puts their religion ahead of country simply means they will incorporate the values of their religion within the limitations of a country's laws.

Just because Obama ignores and breaks laws to get his way doesn't mean a conservative would. Obama is a criminal...I don't think you will see Cruse or Trump breaking laws to push a religious agenda. At least not as Obama has. That wouldn't be Republican nor Conservative values.