Patriots TEAR DOWN Illegal Gov. Fence at OregonFront!

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Granite

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Honest question, why are these guys called patriots

The US Constitution is their guiding document...and mine.

What is yours?

Perhaps you and they should read this part then ...

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

(Article VI, Clause 2)

Emphasis mine. Words courtesy of James Madison and the Constitutional Convention.

When some people think the laws and lawmakers are bad and/or corrupt, those people will ignore and break the law.

DOMA and DADT were the law of the land at one time. That didn't stop people from ignoring, breaking, or refusing to uphold them.

a reply to: snypwsd

Going against your government is not patriotism, its called treason.

When the government has committed treason against their own citizens what do you call it?

We The People have a legal right under the Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land to dismantle and remove a Tyrannical government period.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

All amendments passed against the second amendment are none and void.

everyone there should be locked up

Yes, the BLM should be locked up for abusing their power and stealing families land rights.

Why is it that the bundys can get away with taking over government buildings, owing millions of dollars in grazing fees

In the beginning the Bundy's did pay their grazing fees, however the government ( BLM ) decided to raise the grazing fees so high that they forced all but the Bundy ranches out of business and bought all the land parcels at rock bottom basement prices. The BLM is working for several corrupt congressmen who want all that land so THEY can sell it to China who wants to build some kind of energy plant and put a highway across the land.

This is a blatant abuse of power, so the elite in Washington can make huge profits for their self interests.

What the BLM is doing is illegal.

and not to mention trying to go to war with the government,pointing guns and threatening to kill federal agents.

I guess you have not read the Constitution?

What you have been witnessing specially from the Bund Ranch it was the government ( BLM ) that was pointing guns and threatening to kill the Bundy family.

Which is a serous violation of the Constitutions and a serous violation of abusive power.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State and abuse of government power. The militia is needed to push back a tyrannical government when they decided to break the laws and go against their own citizens.

But Edward Snowden leaked information about the government spying on americans and he (Snowden) is the one facing jail time if not worse if he returns to the states.

The only reason Snowden is facing jail time, is because the government LIED to the American people claiming they were NOT spying on us. I believe it was Director of National Intelligence James Clapper falsely denied that the NSA had collected data on millions of Americans. who told congress in a televised hearing when asked the question is the NSA spying on the American people and James Clapper responded and said no.

The US government was embarrassed when Snowden leaked out the documents that it was spying on the American people and some of the corrupt Representatives in Washington wanted revenge against Snowden.

but these bundy hillbilly rejects get to stay free?

Hillbilly or not they are not rejects most of these men have jobs and own business, they are American citizens, who believe in the Supreme Laws of the land under the Constitution.

You should be proud of these brave men.

a reply to: vjr1113

how can anyone think they can win against the federal govt? serious question. now they're destroying federal property? are they trying to taunt the feds? like i said before, it looks like they're trying to start trouble, if they keep it up they will get it. id rather live than to die proving a point. you can romanticise martyrdom, but in the end you are either dead or alive.

So when the government breaks the laws and abuses it's power, we Americans should let them, correct?

When your government become Tyrannical, what should Americans do?

a reply to: Informer1958
Since I cant give you applause officially, I hope De Niro will do.

Well said.

a reply to: machineintelligence

oregon has nothing to do with grazing rights! This all started when a couple of yahoo's set fires to cover up illegal hunting,known as poaching.They confessed,got a slap on the wrist,then got what they deserved, finally.Bundy and the rest of Y'all Quieda shows up to play with they're guns and look like idiots.

a reply to: Informer1958

So when the government breaks the laws and abuses it's power, we Americans should let them, correct?

What laws has BLM broken? I'd really like to know.

But are you claiming that, if your neighbor parks in your driveway, it's ok to move into his house?

a reply to: Informer1958

If there was any truth to what your claiming, then why aren't these people protesting outside land that has been forcibly brought by the government for mining purposes? They wouldn't even need a gun to do it, just block off the entrance and shut down the mining operation.

Instead, they're occupying a Federal wildlife refuge and demanding the Government allow grazing and logging on it... which I might add, is against the wishes of the majority of locals and even the local native Americans.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Some groups have been

a reply to: xuenchen

“This is NOT a standoff with BLM. We are NOT promoting any confrontation with BLM. This is a security operation for the protection of Constitutional Rights.”

I don't have the words to issue an appropriate response. A security operation? Like the Hell's Angels at Altamont?

It's time to crack down on these people and start putting them in prison.

They should gas the federal building where they're holed up and take them out in chains.

originally posted by: machineintelligence
a reply to: xuenchen

It is a matter of survival for these folks. When people see big ranches they think wealthy people but a lot like any farmer they can lose everything in one or two bad seasons but the BLM is terrorizing these people. Here is a good back story so some people will I hope get a clue.

Do you mind if I place this in a few threads and other places? It kills me when I read people say that these are white supremacists, hope they enjoy the meat they buy in the market and fast food places, and choke on it for all of the white farmers who have fed the world, this country for hundreds of years and longer and for the poor poor sensitive cows, the continued land grab by the nwo.

originally posted by: Informer1958
a reply to: vjr1113

how can anyone think they can win against the federal govt? serious question. now they're destroying federal property? are they trying to taunt the feds? like i said before, it looks like they're trying to start trouble, if they keep it up they will get it. id rather live than to die proving a point. you can romanticise martyrdom, but in the end you are either dead or alive.

So when the government breaks the laws and abuses it's power, we Americans should let them, correct?

When your government become Tyrannical, what should Americans do?

ill tell you what, im not pointing a gun at the feds and destroying their property, because thats stupid. im also not dying to prove a point. if you want to thats fine by me.

the very same Constitution and Bill of Rights gives us the green light to overthrow a tyrannical govt...And that is the major reason for the ability to bear (bare) arms , right ? . Of course , you may not. In the above case , ti is neither sedition nor treason. But a right.

Actually , I got that wrong. If you read the works of the founding fathers , it is not a "right" . It is an obligation to every US citizen
Peace

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: snypwsd
a reply to: machineintelligence

Going against your government is not patriotism, its called treason. everyone there should be locked up. Why is it that the bundys can get away with taking over government buildings, owing millions of dollars in grazing fees and not to mention trying to go to war with the government,pointing guns and threatening to kill federal agents. But Edward Snowden leaked information about the government spying on americans and he (Snowden) is the one facing jail time if not worse if he returns to the states. but these bundy hillbilly rejects get to stay free?

America makes no sense.

Technically, it's not treason. It's sedition.

You did know that the very same Constitution and Bill of Rights gives us the green light to overthrow a tyrannical govt...And that is the major reason for the ability to bear (bare) arms , right ? . Of course , you may not.
In the above case , ti is neither sedition nor treason. But a right.

These men are not acting out of patriotism, they are acting out of naked self interest.

If this land reverts, it should go to the First Nations people, period.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: Informer1958

If there was any truth to what your claiming, then why aren't these people protesting outside land that has been forcibly brought by the government for mining purposes? They wouldn't even need a gun to do it, just block off the entrance and shut down the mining operation.

Instead, they're occupying a Federal wildlife refuge and demanding the Government allow grazing and logging on it... which I might add, is against the wishes of the majority of locals and even the local native Americans.

Because they are a collection of self aggrandizing idiots. The very fact this collection vandals is allowed to roam around like a bunch of nutters kind ruins the entire idea of a tyrannical government. A tyrannical government would never allowed to media to say they existed and they all would have been killed over night. These are wanna be hero's who prey on the small minded and gullible who praise despite the fact their actions represent everything they claim to be against.

originally posted by: yesyesyes

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: clay2 baraka

originally posted by: snypwsd
a reply to: machineintelligence

Going against your government is not patriotism, its called treason. everyone there should be locked up. Why is it that the bundys can get away with taking over government buildings, owing millions of dollars in grazing fees and not to mention trying to go to war with the government,pointing guns and threatening to kill federal agents. But Edward Snowden leaked information about the government spying on americans and he (Snowden) is the one facing jail time if not worse if he returns to the states. but these bundy hillbilly rejects get to stay free?

America makes no sense.

Technically, it's not treason. It's sedition.

You did know that the very same Constitution and Bill of Rights gives us the green light to overthrow a tyrannical govt...And that is the major reason for the ability to bear (bare) arms , right ? . Of course , you may not.
In the above case , ti is neither sedition nor treason. But a right.

These men are not acting out of patriotism, they are acting out of naked self interest.

If this land reverts, it should go to the First Nations people, period.

its very convenient for armed people to have short memories isn't it? the essence of hypocrisy, in any way, the natives have in most cases never had any problem sharing in most cases. greed wasn't a major part of their culture

a reply to: Phage

What laws has BLM broken? I'd really like to know.

As for the bundy's Ranch I can answer your question.

Congressman: BLM Broke Law In Bundy Ranch Raid

The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) acted illegally when it dispatched armed rangers to remove Cliven Bundy’s cattle from federal land in Clark County, Nevada, a Congressman is charging.

The BLM’s action led to a standoff between armed protestors and authorities that attracted national media attention.

“Because of this standoff, I have looked into BLM’s authority to conduct such paramilitary raids against American citizens, and it appears that BLM is acting in a lawless manner in Nevada,” Rep. Steve Stockman (R-Texas) wrote in a letter to President Obama, the Secretary of the Interior and the Director of the BLM.

Stockman contends that Section 1733 of the United States Code requires the BLM rely on local law enforcement officers to enforce regulations rather than its own rangers. He also alleged that the BLM refused to work with the Clark County Sheriff’s Office in its actions against Bundy.

Sheriff on the Sidelines?

“Under this statute, whenever the Secretary of the Interior determines that force may be necessary to secure obedience to federal law and regulation, the Secretary must seek the cooperation of local law enforcement officials,” Stockman wrote.

Ron Paul Gets Involved

Stockman, who just lost a US Senate primary race in Texas, is not the only prominent politician from that state to take an interest in the Bundy affair. Former Congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul is also questioning the BLM’s authority.

In this case it’s who should own the land,” Paul said of the Bundy dispute. The trouble developed because most of the land in Nevada is federally owned and controlled by the BLM. He noted that such disputes would be unlikely in states like Texas where most of the land is privately owned.

“They had virtual ownership of that land because they had been using it,” Paul told Fox News’ Neil Cavuto. The Bundies have been grazing cattle in the area for a century. “I think land should be in the states and they should sell it to the people.”
“You need the government out of it,” Paul said of land ownership. Paul suggested that the federal government transfer all the land in the West to the states.

Paul predicted that there will be more such disputes in the future because he thinks the economy is getting worse. In particular, he believes there will be more disputes between the BLM and ranchers.

www.offthegridnews.com...

a reply to: Informer1958

Looks like the good Congressman did not really look very hard. Which is probably why nothing came of his claim.

Section 1733:

The Secretary may authorize Federal personnel or appropriate local officials to carry out his law enforcement responsibilities with respect to the public lands and their resources.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed as reducing or limiting the enforcement authority vested in the Secretary by any other statute.

www.law.cornell.edu...

a reply to: Olivine

Oregon Public Broadcasting? This is the mouth piece of the beast talking directly to you. Seriously, that is your source for fair, and balanced information? That is chuging pure administration propaganda.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: Granite

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Honest question, why are these guys called patriots

The US Constitution is their guiding document...and mine.

What is yours?

Perhaps you and they should read this part then ...

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any state to the contrary notwithstanding.

(Article VI, Clause 2)

Emphasis mine. Words courtesy of James Madison and the Constitutional Convention.

When some people think the laws and lawmakers are bad and/or corrupt, those people will ignore and break the law.

DOMA and DADT were the law of the land at one time. That didn't stop people from ignoring, breaking, or refusing to uphold them.

People break the law? Wow, that is surprising.

Your comments really have nothing to do with my point. The Constitution of the UNITED STATES makes the laws of the UNITED STATES superior to ANY STATE. The continual, ignorant argument is that somehow the Constitution empowers States over the Federal Government is the issue, not the fact that people break laws ...

Thanks though for stating the obvious!