Christian Scholar: The Bible is More Violent Than the Koran

I placed this thread under DD because this is not really a religious conspiracy, its based on verifiable facts. However, it would seem as though there is a an effort to demonize one religion (or religious text) over another when in actuality, the "Abrahamic" religions have a lot of similarities.

I found this interesting article written by Bruce Wilson (Top Christian Scholar: The Bible is More Violent Than the Koran) in which he talks about a book written by Philip Jenkins:

Laying Down the Sword: Why We Can't Ignore the Bible's Violent Verses.

"In terms of its bloodthirsty and intolerant passages, the Bible raises considerably more issues than does the Qur'an. Some Bible passages justify genocide and multigenerational race war; the Qur'an has nothing comparable.

While many Qur'anic texts undoubtedly call for warfare or bloodshed, these are hedged around with more restrictions than their biblical equivalents, with more opportunities for the defeated to make peace and survive.

Furthermore, any of the defenses that can be offered for biblical violence--for instance, that these passages are unrepresentative of the overall message of the text--apply equally to the Qur-an."

Brian goes on to explain that this should not be perceived as religious bashing but it should be viewed as an exercise in truth telling.

He provides excerpts from the book and then goes on to talk about the "Islamophobia industry".

For the Islamophobia industry* there are... ...claims that Islam is a uniquely violent or even a terrorist religion due to the nature of scripture found in the Koran.

The Bible, demonstrates Jenkins, contains scriptural violence that is categorically more extreme than scriptural violence found in the Koran. The Bible even offers, according to Jenkins, a much more specific scriptural justification for suicide terrorism than does the Koran.

The narrative that Islam is somehow uniquely violent and that this derives from Islamic scripture has become deeply embedded in American culture - one can encounter such arguments from popular comics such as Bill Maher, from Fox News, from Newsweek, even from trendy social media websites such as Reddit.com.

With regards to the conspiratorial aspect, Mr. Wilson references the following:

A report by the Center for American Progress:

REPORT: $42 Million From Seven Foundations Helped Fuel The Rise Of Islamophobia In America.

A "Right Wing" anti-Islamic "playbook":

The Right Wing Playbook on Anti-Muslim Extremism.

and a report presented to Congress:

Tax Dollar Funding for Anti-Muslim Counterterrorism Training Revealed in Detailed Report to Congress.

...a vocal and influential sub-group of the private counterterrorism training industry markets conspiracy theories about secret jihadi campaigns to replace the U.S. Constitution with Sharia law, and effectively impugns all of Islam -- a world religion with 1.3 billion adherents--as inherently violent and even terroristic.

Now, many of you will say, "so what"? Non-Moslems still arent as violent as Moslems.

But that reveals another issue.


When a non-Moslem commits a crime, we dont attribute those acts to their religion. This isnt the case for Moslems. If a crime is committed by a Moslem, we blame the religion as opposed to identifying them by their race or nationality.

Take for example the San Bernardino multiple victim public shooting. This was classified as an act of "terror" but the Binghamton, NY and the Aurora CO shootings were not. Why? Simply because of their religious backgrounds even though the acts were identical.

Mugabe, Lenin, the Bolsheviks, Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao, Chiang Kai-shek, Yakubu Gowon, Mengistu Haile Mariam, the most recognizable names in modern human suffering, none of them are designated or categorized by their religion...

Even the war crimes committed by Bush and Obama, we dont blame Christianity nor do we classify their actions as terrorism.

The US has for decades demonized its enemies: from the "Red" scare to Charlie and the "Gooks" in Vietnam. Dehumanization of the so called enemy is vital in the propaganda war.

And now many other countries are following suit.

The "Moslem" scare has allowed governments worldwide to violate (protected) rights on an unprecedented scale.

Because at the end of the day, when you really study all of these books, they can be quite disturbing.

Its not easy but take a step back and try to realize what all of this is really about.

Of course. Islam is in direct competition with Christianity. Even when people aren't threatened with violence, Islam spreads far faster than Christianity.

To both, all of this is nothing short of a war for the very minds and souls of humanity. This is why wars unspeakable acts of violence have been, and continue to be sanctioned. The "my God is better than your God" thing is strong. It also makes a lot of people wealthy and powerful.

Islam will trash Christianity, Christians will trash Islam. Nothing either side says can be taken for face value. If you are inside of these religions, you are being lied to by your church/mosque. Both sides in this struggle feed their people propaganda.

"Nu uh! My religion is the truth! It's those other guys that are evil and have it wrong!"

Right. Okay. *eye roll* You're BOTH being stupid.

Look how many have fallen for it...I have been saying this all along.
I hope some read this thread and take a long look at themselves in a mirror.
They want you to hate Muslims, they want you to breed hate and terror because it makes them money.
Come on ATS I thought we were better and not able to fall for the BS.
But when the BS is something you agree with even If lies....
Makes it worse.

a reply to: gladtobehere

I am still waiting for the example of hundreds of millions of Christians lining up to implement Mosaic Law and its penalties across the world in this day and age....

Or the 10s to 100s of millions of Christians who believe leaving the faith is "grounds to be put to death".

Or let's see the 10's to 100 millions of Christians who believe you should be lashed and or killed if you insult Jesus.

What?

What was that?

Crickets... yeah, thought so. Huge difference.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
Of course. Islam is in direct competition with Christianity. Even when people aren't threatened with violence, Islam spreads far faster than Christianity.

You think its a contest? I read all religions as I believe there is inspiration in all, but I get the feeling that the vast majority of Christians fail to understand why Jesus walked this earth. Instead of looking at Jesus as a saviour, Christians should look at Jesus life on this planet as their inspiration in every thought and action they do. Ride the donkey instead of envying material objects etc.

a reply to: glend

Yes, it is a contest and most religious people I know take it as one. Both sides want to spread their religion, even if it means bombing or blowing up people. Both religions want to stop/halt the spread of the other.

IMO, if someone else is selling something that's better than what I have -- I'm going to switch brands and buy it. Why should we bomb/blow up the other brand because we're afraid of going out of business?

If your brand is loosing market share, maybe you need to reinvent and improve your brand/flavor.

Simplistic in the extreme.

Yes, the Old Testament is violent. That's not earth-shattering breaking news. What, did you guys just figure this out last Thursday? I mean, God brought on the Flood and killed every last human except Noah's family. What could be more violent than that? Duh. And God did it.

But then something happened: the New Testament, in which God was in a much better mood. It's not nearly as violent and says stuff like "Turn the other cheek" and all that. because the head guy, the Han Solo of the New Testament, was Jesus, who was more or less a peaceful kind of guy, despite wrecking the money changers tables and all that. But overall you have to admit the New Testament is a lot calmer and more laid back.

Now with the Koran what we have is the equivalent of an old testament, and it's pretty violent, too, except that with the Koran, it specifically advocates violence against Christians. After all, one way of looking at it is that Islam is a reaction to Christianity, a me-too! religion that sprang up 600 or so years after Christianity. In that sense it is quite literally reactionary, with Christians and Jews as the Bad Guys, the unbelievers that must be killed. And the Head Guy there was no pacifist. He was an army general and slaughtering thousands was all in a day's work. Islam has no New Testament. Allah, like the Old Testament Jehovah, is still one pissed-off God.

You remember that Jesus ascended to Heaven and all that, right? That's the story. But Muhammad was not content with that. So he engaged in some one-upmanship. The story there is that after he and his army conquered Jerusalem and took over the Second Temple built by the Jews thousands of years before, he also ascended to Heaven from the Temple Mount, but he was on his horse! So both he and the horse ascended to Heaven. That's another aspect of this me, too! religion. Take that, Jesus!

The fact is, the current group of Bad Guys (tm) are justifying their actions not because of any sort of oppression. They want to "serve Allah." That's the issue here. They are motivated by their concept of Islam to engage in terrorism using their religion as the motivator.

Yet we keep hearing that Islam is a "peaceful religion." And I don't disagree with that. Perhaps a couple billion Muslims ARE peaceful.

But his particular group of bad Guys (tm) are not and they are using their religion to justify their violence. You need to come to grips with that rather than keep apologizing for it and pretending it does not exist.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

To both, all of this is nothing short of a war for the very minds and souls of humanity. This is why wars unspeakable acts of violence have been, and continue to be sanctioned. The "my God is better than your God" thing is strong. It also makes a lot of people wealthy and powerful. Islam will trash Christianity, Christians will trash Islam. Nothing either side says can be taken for face value. If you are inside of these religions,

Except in a few extreme cases there is not much talk of other religions in Christian churches, and there isn't talk of hate towards those who are not of the same religion, so there really isn't much to even lie about. We can all Goggle very small sects and few people that are basically bonkers, but when you look a 95%+ there isn't much at all going on in the form of negative rhetoric towards other.

I'm waiting on the suicide vest Christians to blow up a bunch of markets filled with women and children to make both side a little more even in which Religion is more violent before I will debate...hehe Too easy as it is now..

a reply to: infolurker

I am still waiting for the example of hundreds of millions of Christians lining up to implement Mosaic Law and its penalties across the world in this day and age....

What do you think the fight against abortion has been? How about the push against gay marriage and Equal Application?

The Christians may have a different style, but they sure are trying to push their beliefs in to law.

a reply to: schuyler

Sometimes I wonder if those who attack Christianity on the grounds that the Bible is violent realize that the religion is based on the teachings of the New Testament, not the Old.

It's not convenient for their argument.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: gladtobehere

I am still waiting for the example of hundreds of millions of Christians lining up to implement Mosaic Law and its penalties across the world in this day and age....


What?

What was that?

Crickets... yeah, thought so. Huge difference.

Well perhaps they plan on taking over quietly through deception and subterfuge rather than outright war. According to Sun Tsu all War involves Deception so perhaps they're just a bit more skilled in their tactics and approach. If your enemy is smart they defeat you before you even realize you're at war.

Not seeing them lining up and attacking for the world to see could just mean they're more clever and have a better plan than what you're expecting. The fact that you didn't notice them was simply part of the plan all along.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Shame on you and those that think the same. Jesus is loved by both Christians and Muslums, he would not turn his back on either. Neither should you. We all brothers and sisters this world. Books were written for different races that take different roads to the same destination.

Old and New Testaments are two separate religions.

The Quran is not a book of stories…It’s a Mantra of healing

Often if weaves synoptic tales with the mantra

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: schuyler

Sometimes I wonder if those who attack Christianity on the grounds that the Bible is violent realize that the religion is based on the teachings of the New Testament, not the Old.

It's not convenient for their argument.

Sometimes I wonder if those who make excuses for Christianity on the grounds that the Old Test. is no longer relevant understand just how often it's used by them to justify the things they do. Plus you can't just throw out the first half of God's Word because it causes theological problems now. Unless they also admit that doing so means God made a whole lot of mistakes and should no longer be considered All Knowing, Wise, etc.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Are you kidding? Christians preach about how "evil and dangerous" Islam is!







Hell, I've even had to sit through some of them...

a reply to: gladtobehere

This is how I think!

a reply to: Xtrozero

Generally, Christians have something called a military behind them to do the blowing-up-of-things.

Suicide vests are used by desperate people who feel they don't have any alternatives. In America, significant Christian influence is thrown around in Congress that can launch air strikes from carrier groups in the Gulf.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: MystikMushroom

Shame on you and those that think the same. Jesus is loved by both Christians and Muslums, he would not turn his back on either. Neither should you. We all brothers and sisters this world. Books were written for different races that take different roads to the same destination.

Shame on me? I'm practically an atheist. I don't have this "faith" in these old religions that our ancestors needed to create social order.

I'm just tired of people dropping bombs and blowing themselves up. Both sides in this whole thing are stupid as hell in my opinion. Both sides want control, and both sides are making my life miserable because they can't just leave one another alone. They're both acting like spoiled brats...brats with highly destructive weapons and fanatical followers...some of which have extraordinary amounts of money.

I'm pointing out something uncomfortable -- I realize that. I'm sorry it makes you feel offended.

May harmony find you, truly

originally posted by: MystikMushroom

Hell, I've even had to sit through some of them...

Yep they sure do not fit my "you can google people who are bonkers"... I never heard a thing in 55 years, what church type do you go to, or did. I'm not very religious, but my wife is die hard Catholic and there is never talk as you suggest in the Catholic churches she goes to.