Eating Meat is Unethical

a reply to: Xtrozero

Let try to think out of box, we are in a century when human mind can really think out of box.

Let say in 10000 years some agresive and advanced alien specie decide to breed us and eat us and will do in natural way.

It is proven humans can survive without meat so when will you start evolving? Maybe your kids will break the omen? Or their kids?

And I repeat if human is hungry eat meat if there is nothing else to eat. Bear eats honey and fruits but when those are not around he will eat humans, but when he can choose he will always choose fruits.

a reply to: Xtrozero

well you make an interesting point here:

Where do you draw the line? Plant, shrimp, chicken, cow, clean killing, humans in dire need?

this is something to decide for yourself and try to stick by it if you can. I draw the line and taking animal and plant life unnecessarily and try to avoid causing suffering around me. For instance I don't harm uninvited spiders or flies when they come to visit me in the room or when it comes to plants or flowers I will not pluck it if I don't eat or use it. Basic thing for me is to cherish all life, simple and easy to do.

Beliefs come into play here I guess when drawing the line. For me reincarnation is true without a doubt and who knows what will be my next form or what was I before? : )

...but your point here is for me lost:

I'm just having a hard time with this...should a lion switch to planets if that was possible, or is it's eating habits a part of nature?

Animals or plants don't have thought processes like us. They act on instinct almost all the time. They don't get to choose who or what they are. But we sure can and we can do much better. State of animals is really low nowadays. Far to many get treated like crap and also many species are dying out due to our insane greed for resources. Meat is included here also. Land, fields for plant food for farm animals and water are taking a large toll due to the meat industry.

If you need meat because of some serious reason other than just desire for taste than so be it and it must be done. After all we are the strongest on the planet with our toys and on the top of the pyramid food chain. But if you have other options then stronger should be the one who adapts and give ways to the weaker species to life in peace. Why? because we can. We know what pain is, we know what suffering is, we know many things. We should use our wisdom for the benefit of all creatures and plants to make this a better place for all. We can choose and we should choose for the benefit of all. I don't care if chicken large as a house would eat me in a second. Or a shark attacks me. They have no choice. They do their best to survive on instinct.

very good docu. I got it in this thread or some other about food. Recommended for anybody who wants to educate himself about proper diet. This guy is a doctor who threats diabetes patients type 2 with only the change of diet and many regain their health. And also many other things diseases can regenerate on their own if we only give the body the proper source of food. And sorry meat is not proper.
www.youtube.com...

originally posted by: saadad
Let say in 10000 years some agresive and advanced alien specie decide to breed us and eat us and will do in natural way.

Different worlds totally different environments and evolutionary paths, so there is a good chance we would not be very healthy to them.

It is proven humans can survive without meat so when will you start evolving? Maybe your kids will break the omen? Or their kids?

I'm sure we are at the point we could make paste in tubes to give us all we need, but not on a world level where 80% of the world still eat farm and raise animals as they did 1000 years ago. You think in terms of a place like the US and do not see how most of the world actually lives.

Why do you see it as a part of evolution that one day all life weeds itself off meat? I do not think the grazer and the hunter were just accidents and evolution said oops my bad I should have made them all grazers. I don't see us there yet as a species, but I'm sure science will solve it one day.

originally posted by: UniFinity
I draw the line and taking animal and plant life unnecessarily and try to avoid causing suffering around me. For instance I don't harm uninvited spiders or flies when they come to visit me in the room or when it comes to plants or flowers I will not pluck it if I don't eat or use it. Basic thing for me is to cherish all life, simple and easy to do.

I see this somewhat extreme in being one with nature, so I do not see the world heading in that direction anytime soon. These are all human thoughts and ideals that we made up out of thin air for nature doesn't care one way or the other. To nature species come and go all the time but life in general continues on.

Beliefs come into play here I guess when drawing the line. For me reincarnation is true without a doubt and who knows what will be my next form or what was I before? : )

energy...

Animals or plants don't have thought processes like us. They act on instinct almost all the time. They don't get to choose who or what they are.

So good for animals but evil for us because we know better even though it is apart of our instinct and evolution too. The part I do not understand is how is it wrong, against nature to do what we evolved to do just because we can say I'm going to eat an apple and not the goat?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Evolution is long process, maybe it will take another 1000 to get there, but we are heading there. Once people realize that modern industry meat is crap and realize all the dangers it gives, then we will start the evolution. It already started by vegans, but some vegans put animals before they own specie, but there are people that don't eat meat and are not vegans.

originally posted by: saadad
Bear eats honey and fruits but when those are not around he will eat humans, but when he can choose he will always choose fruits.

What types of honey and fruit do polar bears eat?

What about the consciousness of plants? Is it wrong to eat plants?

If not, then why would it be wrong to eat animals if it's done quickly with compassion and not fear and torture?

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

What types of honey and fruit do polar bears eat?

Dude they are polar bears they seal icicles...

Unethical definition from Dictionary.com:

1. lacking moral principles; unwilling to adhere to proper rules of conduct.

2. not in accord with the standards of a profession.

Relative to the OP, only def. #1 seem appropriate. So it seem to me that it is only unethical to eat meat for peoples that believe that it is wrong to eat meat. If those persons eat meat, they cheat their principles making it unethical.

However, for peoples thinking that animal have the ultimate purpose to provide delicious meat to some higher predator in the food chain, to not honor their goal of life and not eat their meat would be cheating nature, thus being highly unethical. So the definition is relative the the belief of the person.

Since nature "rules" are natural by opposition to "invented" human moral, it seem to me logical that honoring nature have a more universal and non-relative ethical meaning.

Now a little OT. If eating meat is bad for health (not just unethical) and carb is good, explain to me why meat eating culture have no decaying teeth. Good teeth is a sign of good health after all.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: saadad
Bear eats honey and fruits but when those are not around he will eat humans, but when he can choose he will always choose fruits.

What types of honey and fruit do polar bears eat?

English is not my first language and probably is not yours too. But if you reread what I write you will understand. But in case you don't here it is again:

There is no honey nor fruits on ice and polar bear eats what is there and I write when bear is hungry he will eat s and polar bear just do that. It is most dangerous animal for humans who live near polar bear.

But since ice is shrinking polar bears swim to near land where is grass and fruits and when he do that he eats fruits and flowers and other vegetables. And garbage that humans leave behind. This actually is bad for him and many polar bears die because they are eating at the time they should fast. So instead of wake hibernation, I think that is correct term he eats and in that way his metabolism changes and then he have hard time swimming back on ice.

But story is same, bear or any animal will consume even his own kind if hungry. So think about that, maybe we were never meat eaters, we just started eat meat because we were hungry. But right now you can feed your self with fruit and vegetables but many people choose not to.

There is a good story about people who's airplane crashed on snow over Alaska I think. They were stuck on snow without food and they started to eat dead body's aka started to be cannibals. Just to survive. They had no choice, but you and me have.

a reply to: saadad

But story is same, bear or any animal will consume even his own kind if hungry. So think about that, maybe we were never meat eaters, we just started eat meat because we were hungry.

YES very true, I think you know my theory on human evolution: we just started eat meat because we were hungry.

"The primate evolved in tropical forests, their diet was mostly equivalent to a vegetarian; fruit, succulent leaf... Essentially carb but not "grain" based.

Then forest has been gradually loosing ground to grassland plains, monkey that evolved to survive in those plains evolved to become human. This period is a phase of adaptation to a hunter diet that lasted for millions of years. At the end, some have become hordsmen. This is a period of meat eating and massive brain development. Brain power permitted to create tool, like silex knife to cut meat and hunting accessories. Language have also helped group hunting. This is why human does not have dentition caracteristics of carnivor, and no claw, they used knife and tools, they used their brain.

After that, human have developed agriculture, since only at max in the last 10kyears.

Monkey that stayed in the forrest did not evolve due to unchanging habitat and stayed the same."

Vegan eating is still appropriate because it is the diet of our nearest ancestor, the monkey, and these metabolic process are still strong. But we have adapted thru million of years of meat eating.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

I don't believe in theory that we evolved from monkey, nor do I believe in a story where god created a man. But I believe that we are made from something between that two. So I can't talk about past evolving, but I can talk about future.

Even meat industry corporations know this kind of animal breeding won't last for long. That why they are working on producing synthetic meat. So I think this us the path we are going, eating a synthetic food and I already feel gross about that.

a reply to: saadad

I don't believe in theory that we evolved from monkey

The science is there and it is irrefutable. Perhaps it would be more exact to say that modern monkey and men came from a common "ancient" monkey. But frankly, the difference between "ancient" monkey and "modern" monkey is futile. I hope you don't believe in "fantasy" like ancient astronauts doing DNA manipulation...

Even meat industry corporations know this kind of animal breeding won't last for long. That why they are working on producing synthetic meat. So I think this us the path we are going, eating a synthetic food and I already feel gross about that.

Every corporation is evil by itself, be it meat or big oil... There is no need to drift the thread in this direction.

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
Unethical definition from Dictionary.com:

1. lacking moral principles; unwilling to adhere to proper rules of conduct.

2. not in accord with the standards of a profession.

Relative to the OP, only def. #1 seem appropriate. So it seem to me that it is only unethical to eat meat for peoples that believe that it is wrong to eat meat. If those persons eat meat, they cheat their principles making it unethical.

However, for peoples thinking that animal have the ultimate purpose to provide delicious meat to some higher predator in the food chain, to not honor their goal of life and not eat their meat would be cheating nature, thus being highly unethical. So the definition is relative the the belief of the person.

Since nature "rules" are natural by opposition to "invented" human moral, it seem to me logical that honoring nature have a more universal and non-relative ethical meaning.

Now a little OT. If eating meat is bad for health (not just unethical) and carb is good, explain to me why meat eating culture have no decaying teeth. Good teeth is a sign of good health after all.

See, my take on this is that we as humans have a set of intrinsic values. One of these values is to avoid causing unecessary suffering. Now these values are always there but as our circumstances and knowledge progess the way we apply them changes.

For example, killing animals for food was once necessary (and still is for some folk), now killing animals for food is not necessary for me, so by doing I would be causing unecessary suffering.

a reply to: Scouse100

One of these values is to avoid causing unecessary suffering.

Open your eye to the world around you! Man is in love with making pain. Just check history, kings and tsar loved making their subject miserable. Inquisition, persecution, torture, holly war and not so "holly" war, anti-personal mine, cluster bomb, Iron Maiden, biological warfare, Guantanamo Bay, terrorism, atomic weapon, gas chamber, the Brazen Bull, impalement, crucifixion, the rack, rat torture, saw torture...

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
a reply to: Scouse100

One of these values is to avoid causing unecessary suffering.

Open your eye to the world around you! Man is in love with making pain. Just check history, kings and tsar loved making their subject miserable. Inquisition, persecution, torture, holly war and not so "holly" war, anti-personal mine, cluster bomb, Iron Maiden, biological warfare, Guantanamo Bay, terrorism, atomic weapon, gas chamber, the Brazen Bull, impalement, crucifixion, the rack, rat torture, saw torture...

Yep, there are many (usually those in power) who are just fine with it. What does that tell you about those people? Perhaps they lack empathy, it it has been shown top jobs for psycopaths include banking for example. This stuff makes the majority of us nowadays sick to the stomach.

originally posted by: saadad
There is no honey nor fruits on ice and polar bear eats what is there and I write when bear is hungry he will eat s and polar bear just do that. It is most dangerous animal for humans who live near polar bear.

Okay, what about sloth bears? They live in warm climates with access to fruits and honey but their diet is 90% animal protein.

originally posted by: PeterMcFly
Vegan eating is still appropriate because it is the diet of our nearest ancestor, the monkey, and these metabolic process are still strong. But we have adapted thru million of years of meat eating.

Did you just claim chimpanzees were vegan? Maybe you should tell this guy:

a reply to: Son of Will

"It's the destiny of our species to become the Guardians of this beautiful planet, as we slowly shake off our immature and self-destructive habits, and spread out amongst the stars."
- Maybe, should we survive ourselves to be something we have never gotten close to being.

"It's our birthright and I will have nothing less."
- Hmmm, all things considered as far as time, you must be... immortal?

"I think it's time we started acting like it."
- Dang straight! Pass the ribs, please!

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