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Eating Meat is Unethical

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posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 04:45 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
Those are your arguments you made up and then suggested they are invalid.

Those are common argument. And yes, I admit that I haven't read trough the thread. It was enough to read the first few posts and see the usual "arguments" in favor of eating meat.


originally posted by: Xtrozero
In a earlier posts I suggested that just about all the vegetarians I know are not happy people and tend to be angry all the time about whatever. I think this is a chemical imbalance from the lack of what meat provides us.

Strange, all the vegetarians and vegans I have meet are very friendly and happy.


originally posted by: XtrozeroWe have evolved a million years on meat and so it just logical our bodies actually need it to be truly healthy and not just surviving.

Since this argument builds on your previous statement, which you have no fact but your own experience to support, I assume that this argument has no validy unless you can prove that vegetarians are angry all the time due to lack of meat.


originally posted by: XtrozeroTake chickens, 19 billion in the world and they are killed about every 3 months, so lets say 100 billion are eaten yearly. Do you think that many are eaten because of just taste or because it is a major food source that if we decided was unethical to eat as a planet then our population would take a hit from people starving. You might say just raise more crops, but it is not that easy.

We already have enough crops worldwide to feed up to 15 billion human beings. Most of these crops go to feed animals which then are to be slaughtered.




posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: Son of Will


Does the OP make a bit more sense now?


No, not really. It still isn't unethical to eat meat. Maybe what you mean is the animals are treated unethically?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 04:54 PM
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Following the flow of the thread :-

Gorillas are Vegan
Maybe if they ate meat they would become super smart like Human Beings
Who knows one day there may be the first Gorilla President


edit on 26-12-2015 by artistpoet because: Typo

edit on 26-12-2015 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 04:59 PM
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originally posted by: Pantokrator
Since this argument builds on your previous statement, which you have no fact but your own experience to support, I assume that this argument has no validy unless you can prove that vegetarians are angry all the time due to lack of meat.


You missed my point of since we evolved million plus years with meat then it is a part of us.


We already have enough crops worldwide to feed up to 15 billion human beings. Most of these crops go to feed animals which then are to be slaughtered.


You missed my point here too, what does much of the world grow that they do not do already to compensate for meat? Also you did not answer my question of who decided killing animals to eat was unethical?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:02 PM
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Personal ethics may not always match those of the society one lives in

If you feel it is right to kill and consume an animal ... then to do so would not break one's personal ethic
And if this was generally accepted by one's society then no ethic has been transgressed

However if you felt it was wrong to kill and eat another animal and so refrained from doing so
You too would be acting in a ethical manner

In a progressive society ... the individual retains the right of free choice
And that is all it is


edit on 26-12-2015 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-12-2015 by artistpoet because: Typo



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero




who decided killing animals to eat was unethical?


I did that is why I do not eat animals
However that is my ethic and I do not expect others to share it



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:08 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Pantokrator
The second argument: humans have always eaten meat.
This type of argument could justifying anything from oppression of women to slavery.


Logical fallacy. Oppression of women and slavery were not crucial to our ancestor's survival.

What kind of logical fallacy?
To say that we have always eaten meat and therefore ought eat meat is an argument of tradition. The same argument could be used to ensure slavery. We have always used slavery there we ought to have slavery.

You are moving the goal post and now points out that this argument, that is to say we have always eaten meat and therefore ought to eat meat, contains a further requirement. That requirement sums up the argument as following: we have always eaten meat, because it was crucial to our survival, and therefore we ought to eat meat.

Because it was crucial in the past, does not mean it is ethically right today. This reminds me of the inuits. Many children were born due the lack of contraceptive. Sometimes too many. To ensure the survival of the family they sometimes had to put a newborn in the cold and let him or her freeze to death. This was crucial to their survival. Would this action be ethically right today if an inuit family moved to New York but was too poor to take care of one more child? An argument of tradition would go something like this: A newborn threatens our survival, we ought to put her to rest. This argument was crucial in the past, but not today. Therefore we should conclude the above argument as invalid. And so shall be do with the meat argument, that argument which says that we have always eaten meat, because it was crucial to our survival, and therefore we ought to eat meat.

Have I understood you rightly?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: artistpoet

I did that is why I do not eat animals
However that is my ethic and I do not expect others to share it


Thanks I respect that.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:20 PM
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a reply to: Puppylove



There are no ethical reasons reasons for being a veggie.


As I can get what I need elsewhere, I can't justify killing a sentient being for my own enjoyment. This is my ethical reason for being a veggie.


Now there are ethical reasons to protest animal cruelty and buy meat from places that do not practice it. Protesting/boycotting animal cruelty reliant farms while promoting and making profitable the humane ones. 

If you really want to make a difference make treating animals right profitable and do as much as you can to treating them wrongly as unprofitable as possible.


I speak up against and support progress in animal welfare too (e.g ban on chick culling in German egg industry), not all veggies are all or nothing, please don't generalise. 



Choosing to not eat meat is well just taking yourself out of the equation. No one gives a crap if you're a veggie, it helps no one and saves not a single life nor ends one little bit of suffering. Just complicates the lives of everyone around you while giving you some smug sense of moral superiority.


Simply not true, 375 million vegetarians do make a difference, livestock will generally be bred according to demand. I don't think we can deny that reduced demand would lead to reduced supply. It doesn't complicate the lives of people around me, they are all very happy and even excited to try new recipes or totally welcome me bringing a dish to share. Moreover, if I think something is wrong I'm not going to carry on doing it just because if I don't it's a minor inconvenience to others. Really I'm not doing it to get one over on anybody, I am doing it because I think it's wrong, pure and simple.



The corporations certainly don't care, even if they all overnight started treating their cattle ethically, making sure they had comfortable lives and a quick painless death, you still wouldn't be a buyer.


I would welcome this change but personally I don't think killing another sentient being purely for my enojoyment can ever be OK so no I wouldn't.



So tell me why should corporations or anyone change anything cause you choose to be veggie? You're not doing anything to fight the problem, and there's nothing anyone could do to satisfy you, and, then there's the hypocrisy that comes from your eating veggies who's existence on your table is drowned in blood as well.


You are making assumptions.



Make a difference combat animal cruelty by combating animal cruelty, not by make smug personal choices that affect you, and you alone while not honestly making a difference.


No smugness whatsoever here, just doing doing what I feel is right.



It's not about ethics, it's about making yourself feel better. If it were about ethics, you'd be fighting for the ethical treatment of animals, not going veggie and going all three monkeys on the truth.


Assumptions again, as above I welcome and promote progress in animal welfare. I will say again though, killing an animal for my enjoyment when I can get all I need elsewhere is not 'ethical treatment' in my book.
edit on 26-12-2015 by Scouse100 because: Messed up quotes (damn beer)



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:21 PM
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DP
edit on 26-12-2015 by Scouse100 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:25 PM
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originally posted by: Xtrozero
You missed my point of since we evolved million plus years with meat then it is a part of us.

It still does not make it right to eat meat.


originally posted by: XtrozeroYou missed my point here too, what does much of the world grow that they do not do already to compensate for meat? Also you did not answer my question of who decided killing animals to eat was unethical?

I do not understand the first question.

Who is to decide anything regarding moral but you? Referring to a moral authority is nothing but a loss of autonomy. As Kant would say, if a maxim is that parents are to love their children, this love would be robotic. The love would be faked. True love by parents are chosen by themselves, not decided by someone or something. Of course I want people to share my thoughts, but I let them chose by themselves.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: Scouse100

See though, that's my problem, it's always all or nothing. People either go veggie and in doing so take themselves out of the equation on any level that puts pressure on the meat industry, or just eat meat. There aren't enough putting money where it would really promote change in the language that the puppeteers speak.

Everyone cares so much they go all the way when the best solution lies in the middle.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:56 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Scouse100

See though, that's my problem, it's always all or nothing. People either go veggie and in doing so take themselves out of the equation on any level that puts pressure on the meat industry, or just eat meat. There aren't enough putting money where it would really promote change in the language that the puppeteers speak.

Everyone cares so much they go all the way when the best solution lies in the middle.


See I don't think that's true either, I have a number of friends who do just as you say. And as I said, I support and encourage that over eating any old meat, I would prefer that over inaction any day. I am not a preachy veggie by any means but always happy to answer questions, this has certainly lead to the reconsideration of views (even by folk who I had down as 'stuck in their ways' - one should never judge eh?)



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:42 PM
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originally posted by: Pantokrator
It still does not make it right to eat meat.
But why?



I do not understand the first question.


My point is most of the world needs meat because what they grow does not cover everything that meat provides. I do not think this is an easy thing for the world to do. For me it doesn't provide much of a change in food either. Maybe one day we will grow meat like food that is exceptional to eat and is not real meat.
I'm sure the world be better off without a few billion cows farting.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 09:40 PM
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as I see it being a veggie eater is like looking at the world through more equal eyes. You respect all beings and their life force equally and on the contrary - meat eaters are looking through superior/arrogant/unethical? eyes. Eating meat of other beings like we are above them or they are here for us and our desire for taste.

What would meat eater say to an alien being who is so above us in intelligence and every other aspects that they could treat us as animals for food.
Would they be happy to live in a dirty barn and caged for life until you are ripe for slaughter. We would be delicious food for them after all... some of you go here mmm bacon..and they would go mmm human..phahaha



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 10:22 PM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
as I see it being a veggie eater is like looking at the world through more equal eyes. You respect all beings and their life force equally and on the contrary - meat eaters are looking through superior/arrogant/unethical? eyes. Eating meat of other beings like we are above them or they are here for us and our desire for taste.


How do you survive eating no lifeforms at all?



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 05:05 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

you can't, but I did not say that. So I don't know what is your point. But I can guess that you think that plants and animals are the same. Would you then also include humans in this equation? You should!

I respect plants also. They have some level of consciousness. To what degree they feel a thing is left open to debate. But consciousness is evident in all living matter. But to say that animals and plants are the same in that regard is just an simple excuse not based on science and only in imagination of meat eaters.

Nothing should be taken for granted and for every meal we should be thankful for!

I don't know if you have been a witness to butchering any kind of mammal type of animal, but let me just say that it is far from pretty and something NOT a child should see. As was already mentioned in this thread by me. And it is simple logic realy. if you cannot let your child see the deed than something is wrong. Morally, ethically or any other way you would like to put it...just my opinion and I don't care how it is with other views.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 07:06 AM
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originally posted by: Pantokrator
What kind of logical fallacy?


False equivalence


To say that we have always eaten meat and therefore ought eat meat is an argument of tradition. The same argument could be used to ensure slavery. We have always used slavery there we ought to have slavery.


Slavery was/is not essential to life. Eating meat was/is, i.e. you could survive without slavery but not without meat. Replace meat with air and the equivocacy holds, replace it with infanticide and it does not.



Because it was crucial in the past, does not mean it is ethically right today.


Whose ethos are we supposed to be using? Vegans?



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 07:21 AM
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who decided killing animals to eat was unethical?


I don't have problem when hungry people kill and ear animals. That's nature. But I have problem when fat cow or fat pig that you see from a mile are obese are chocking them in meat, then I have problem.

Also I have a problem where big industry breed big big and big cows just to make more money by filling them with hormone growth and other crap just to make more money.

This animals are not same animals that live free in nature.

And even local breeders now do the same thing just to keep up wit mass meat industry.

Now I call that unethical and everyone who says that is ethical is psychopath or just brainwashed so hard to deny everything just to put that crap met in his mouth so his weak trained brain will be satisfied.



posted on Dec, 27 2015 @ 11:24 AM
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originally posted by: UniFinity

you can't, but I did not say that. So I don't know what is your point. But I can guess that you think that plants and animals are the same. Would you then also include humans in this equation? You should!


Where do you draw the line? Plant, shrimp, chicken, cow, clean killing, humans in dire need?



I respect plants also. They have some level of consciousness. To what degree they feel a thing is left open to debate. But consciousness is evident in all living matter. But to say that animals and plants are the same in that regard is just an simple excuse not based on science and only in imagination of meat eaters.


I'm just having a hard time with this...should a lion switch to planets if that was possible, or is it's eating habits a part of nature?



Nothing should be taken for granted and for every meal we should be thankful for!


Agree



I don't know if you have been a witness to butchering any kind of mammal type of animal, but let me just say that it is far from pretty and something NOT a child should see. As was already mentioned in this thread by me. And it is simple logic realy. if you cannot let your child see the deed than something is wrong. Morally, ethically or any other way you would like to put it...just my opinion and I don't care how it is with other views.


Seems like there are two ethical debates here. One is eating animals and the other is miss treatment of animals. I think we are on the same page as to mistreatment of animal, and as example, I buy only pasture fed beef. I typically go in on a 1/2 cow that spent it's whole life in a pasture. Kosher beef has to be prepared with least amount of pain to the animal, so there is another example of a non-commercial, no suffering, no chemically induced beef variety.



edit on 27-12-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



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