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Eating Meat is Unethical

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posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:08 AM
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originally posted by: BlackProject

originally posted by: Son of Will
This may sound outrageous, but in reality it is deceptively simple. All I need is one paragraph to make a 100% iron-tight argument. (Two caveats: first, by 'eat animals' I refer to the industry of keeping livestock or attacking animals for the purpose of consuming them or a byproduct of them. Roadkill is fair game. Second, those not living in a modern, Western society, without access to  the foods we take for granted, cannot be included. This is for the modern world. Anyone living in poverty must think of themselves and their loved ones first before other animals. I'm not advocating martyrdom.


Are you writing this from confusion and brain fatigue? They say that happens when you do not get the vitamins you need from meat. Sorry to see that.

Many Inuits live very healthy lives until old age on an only meat diet. Also considering their brains grow and become much more mentally stable then the average joe, if those who think eating meat is odd well its not. Most humans do not eat enough meat and therefore our brains shrink, this makes us ill. Eating meat will make you healthy, its a mixed diet that brings us down.

Inuit Lifestyle Lower Heart Disease Rate & Cancer


Wrong. The Inuit are some of the least healthy people ever studied, despite them having unique genetic adaptations (adaptations that you and I do not share) making it easier for them to handle a high-fat diet. In fact, they die so young that many old age diseases don't even have time to manifest.

fanaticcook.com...




posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: hellobruce

Plants don't have the physiological apparati required to experience pain.

Animals do.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: hellobruce

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
We're natural herbivores as a species, right?


No, we are naturally omnivores.


Humans have canine teeth.

Why is it even questioned?

freefromharm.org...
Because some of us actually understand physiology.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:21 AM
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originally posted by: DumpMaster
a reply to: Son of Will

I don't eat much meat but I don't see the problem with it. I love bacon and burgers as well. I also love chips which are made from potatoes and salads as well.

Humans evolved in a way that we require both otherwise our teeth would be flat like a cows. Just because you can survive without it doesn't mean we aren't naturally meant to do it.

Another thing, 1 cow could essentially feed a family for at least a week if not a month right? That is 1 life.
Lets look at a salad. How many different kinds of things are in it? I bet at least 20 plants lives were taken for that single salad. Did you know that each one of those plants was once a living thing. Are you racist against plants and not even consider their lives? It's life was ended so you could survive. That's the same as with meat. It is unfortunate but in order for us to survive we have to take the lives of something else. It is how our body works. I

The only way a human could eat without taking somethings life is if they were eating space dust and only in the vacuum of space at that. If you were to grab a handful of dirt here on earth and eat that how many thousands or millions of bacteria life did you take? You think you can crack open a fresh rock and eat it here on earth? I doubt it because as soon as it's cracked open there is an extremely high chance that some sort of microscopic organism has landed on it and then you just took its life when you ate the rock.

I wonder though, are vegetarians against meat that is created 100% in a lab without having ever come from any animal? Is that cool with you guys?


Lots of errors in your post. First, being omnivorous means we CAN get nutrition from many sources. Not that we require both. There are millions of successful long-term vegans. So we don't need meat for any purpose whatsoever.

That cow that could feed a family came from somewhere. Imagine all the grain, and water that went into feeding it. Obviously, if you were to eat that grain and water yourself, and exclude the "middle man", you would have vastly more food for your family. The cow is just another mouth to feed.

Plants don't feel pain. They can't. No brains for the experience of consciousness, which is a prerequisite for experiencing pain.
But we know animals do.

I think you should check out some of the literature on the subject sometime.
Start with this video:



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:37 AM
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a reply to: Son of Will

Way of the world the universe and existence...
Reality isn't some hippy live and let live BS everything consumes something else.
Yes If you could ask a cow If he is happy with his lot in the universe for his species I know she would say "Yes the cow kingdom is happy and strong".
We will be gone one day and the next dominate species will do the exact same as us...eat others.
TBH we are not ready for your ideas we will be in the next 100 years or so but the answer will be protein from insects It is the way forward to feed the world and save other species which is used as bush meat (monkeys, apes etc).
Remember most of the worlds population are not as lucky as us where they can choose where to get there food from so it really is unfortunately a 1st world problem.
Like I said grow meat! I'm all for it but you have to accept animals will go extinct quicker because of this.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 11:01 AM
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originally posted by: saadad

You are poor at reading.


hahaha the vegan knifes are out!


I suggest you to check study for meat linked to cancer. Milk linked to calcium deficiency. Those are from 2014 and 2015.


You have to provide evidence for your post.


Also in your link they talk about vegans that abuse they children, but I ask you where are those child services when parent feed his child with meat garbage that increase kids chances for cancer or where are those services when kids get leukemia, cancer and other illnesses linked to meat? What, those kids were not lucky? Nobody is responsible? I don't defend any parent that abuse they kid on whatever way. But I know many parents who buy cheap meat and highly processed crap meat and feed they poor children with that.


In the UK social services have taken children into care because they were morbidly obese and their parents never did anything to help them loose weight.

I agree that a diet on junk food is more damaging than a vegan one and if you have read my posts before you'd know that in my household we eat vegan/vegetarian at least three times a week. I agree we eat too much meat, but a healthy diet includes animal products. If you eat enough fruits, vegetables, grains and meat/fish you do not need supplements as you'd be getting all the nutrients your body needs.

Even vegan sites recommend taking supplements to make sure there are no deficiencies and if you have to supplement your diet with additional vitamins then it's clear we are not meant to be vegan.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: Agartha




I doubt it, I have seen many vegans with a serious deficiency.

I seriously doubt it.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: Agartha

I m not talking what you eat and what I eat, and for your record I m not vegan.

Supplements you need is only b12 and today's modern world that is at least toxic supplement. What we were ment to be we are no longer.

Because people can eat dirt and survive. So when in modern world and you have right to choose what you eat you can eat healthy food or you can eat garbage that industry corporations served to your brain.

Some people just can't choose I know many of them and you see many if them in this topic, they just want to satisfy their brain and not vice versa, brain to satisfy them.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 01:16 PM
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There are some common arguments in favor for eating meat that always show up: 1) humans can eat meat 2) humans have always eaten meat 3) meat tastes good

The first argument: humans can eat meat.
Ought does not necessary follow is. Just because I can spit, doesn't not meat that I should spit. Just because I can eat meat, doesn't meant that I should eat meat. The argument is simple: from a descriptive statement we conclude a normative statement.* And to add, natural isn't always right.

The second argument: humans have always eaten meat.
This type of argument could justifying anything from oppression of women to slavery. Also this argument justifying eating humans - if that is the tradition.

The third argument: meat tastes good.
This argument justifies meat solely on the basis that it tastes good. This would also justifying eating human flesh - as long as it tastes good. The same type of argument could be used to justify strangling: because it sounds nice to strangle someone. This argument could justify anything as longs as it's give pleasure to the subject.

Conclusion: all of the above arguments are invalid. That's to say, we can't conclude that it's ethically right to eat meat on the basis that we can eat meat, always have been eating meat and enjoy eating meat. Just in a similar way we can't conclude that it's ethically right for men to rape women because men can rape women, always have raped women and enjoy raping women.

*My primary language isn't English so I am not sure if I'm using the right vocabulary. With a descriptive statement I mean that the statement claims a fact. With a normative statement I mean a statement that claims a prescriptive action. That is a action that should guide us to the do ethically right.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: Pantokrator

Conclusion: all of the above arguments are invalid. That's to say, we can't conclude that it's ethically right to eat meat on the basis that we can eat meat, always have been eating meat and enjoy eating meat. Just in a similar way we can't conclude that it's ethically right for men to rape women because men can rape women, always have raped women and enjoy raping women.


Those are your arguments you made up and then suggested they are invalid.



Why do you eat certain foods? Do you eat only a bland nutritious bar that provides all your needs or do you actually enjoy food? First why is killing a cow or shrimp unethical? Who decided that? I can go to 200 countries and find things they see as ethical and I do not, so who is the person that this one time has put an unethical label on meat for the whole world? I think you need to prove it is unethical in the first place...

In a earlier posts I suggested that just about all the vegetarians I know are not happy people and tend to be angry all the time about whatever. I think this is a chemical imbalance from the lack of what meat provides us. We have evolved a million years on meat and so it just logical our bodies actually need it to be truly healthy and not just surviving.

Take chickens, 19 billion in the world and they are killed about every 3 months, so lets say 100 billion are eaten yearly. Do you think that many are eaten because of just taste or because it is a major food source that if we decided was unethical to eat as a planet then our population would take a hit from people starving. You might say just raise more crops, but it is not that easy. In places like America where you can get everything you nutritionally need and be a vegetarian the majority of the world is not the same way... Can people live on rice and limited local veggies alone and actually be healthy? I don't think so.





edit on 26-12-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: Pantokrator
The second argument: humans have always eaten meat.
This type of argument could justifying anything from oppression of women to slavery.


Logical fallacy. Oppression of women and slavery were not crucial to our ancestor's survival.



edit on 26-12-2015 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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Double post.



edit on 26-12-2015 by AugustusMasonicus because: never go in against a Sicilian with death is on the line



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 01:35 PM
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Trifecta.



edit on 26-12-2015 by AugustusMasonicus because: Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 01:42 PM
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originally posted by: Son of Will
a reply to: hellobruce

Plants don't have the physiological apparati required to experience pain.

Animals do.


Does a cow feel pain with a shotgun blast to the head? Would you feel pain? So I guess it is ethical if we kill them quickly so they do not suffer, right?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: Son of Will

In your short sightedness you completely disregard the consequences of all actions. You also disregard science that has demonstrated that plants feel as well. You disregard that whether we use farmland for vegetation or herds, either way, we kill much life for our own dietary needs. You disregard that while some farms are cruel, in the better cases such can be considered a symbiotic rather than a parasitic relationship.

In the wild life is harsh, you think the way we kill cattle is bad? Imagine being a Buffalo, worn out, with a few bites out of you, run until you can run no longer, lying on the ground, tired, blood slowly trickling from your body. You want to live, so you keep fighting, heart pounding with each laborious breath as your life slowly fades. Around you waiting for your death, is the pack of wolves that hunted you down, the ravens cawing ravenously. You know what they want and you want no part of it, occasionally a wolf comes in to see if you've had enough, if it gets close enough, another bite is torn from your hide. You struggle, you find enough strength to shift your weight, you scare it off again. The pain and fear continues, but still you struggle on as the day passes. Hours upon hours of this continue as you fight and struggle to get in one more breath. Then it happens, your strength gives out, you have no more fight in you, not enough that matters anyway. You slump down, and in comes one of the wolves again, he bites and you shudder, you try to move, but you can't move enough. Another wolf comes in, and again you try but to no avail, and then it begins as they realize your fight is over you're done. They start tearing away your flesh, you feel each painful bite, and soon after hours of fear, of fighting for your life, in one last horrific struggle you finally die, painfully, as you're eaten literally alive.

Yeah the way we kill our cattle can be pretty bad, but give me the choice, I'll take the slaughterhouse over the wolf pack any day of the week, and wolves and ravens happen to be two of my favorite animals. As animal teams go, they are dynamite. But I digress.

Nature is not a happy fluffy place, it's rigged for death and suffering, we and all life struggle like that buffalo with the wolf pack through life, looking for those little bits of rest between the bites and taunts of the wolves. I admire your desire to lessen suffering as much as possible, but I shake my head at your shortsighted ignorance of the universe we live in. You see a short term choice that seems on the outside to make you a better person, but in truth you fail to see the forest for the trees. You see one side of things while failing at the bigger picture. The true path to reducing suffering lies in the middle path, it lies in finding a balance between domestication where it's not parasitic but symbiotic in nature.

Eating animals for food is not a problem, not really, no more than eating plants is. What is a problem is purposely causing undue suffering. Being killed and eaten is natural, death is natural, is cold hard reality. It's not length of life but quality of life which matters. It's here where your struggle should be. Not against eating livestock or meat. That's just the natural order. Same as given the choice I'd prefer being made into kibble and myself fed back to the animal kingdom, or ground up and turned into fertilizer. I don't want to be buried with a casket to keep me from recycling proper, or cremated which is a massive waste.

I'm an exceedingly empathic person, I recognize that I and the other creatures on this planet all are experiencing the same struggle. Mother Gaea, however, is a cold hearted, sadistic, and unfair psychopathic bitch, one who sets crazy rules and limits on all of us that we must follow and struggle against in order to see tomorrow. Some will never see their first winter, I might die tomorrow, or I could live to some crazy old age. A storm somewhere has killed a child right this second, another has been still born. Some psychopath out there has bought his third yacht and a poor boy in Africa has finally stopped moving, hunger and malnutrition finally claiming his life. A hyena just stole a baby. A lion has murdered his rivals cubs. Somewhere a gang of chimps have tracked down a chimp from a rival tribe that wandered too far from his brothers, they are beating him to death as I type this. A cow has just been slaughtered, somewhere a buffalo struggles for his last breath against the pack.

Life is unfair, nature makes sure it stays that way. A utopia today, a meteor tomorrow. We're all babes in the woods struggling for those little nibbles of happiness that occasionally float from atop our fish bowl. We have some control, and we have some choices, but don't be deluded by the surface context, a book is more than it's cover. What you want sounds good, but it's one, impractical, and two, decides to disallow any type of symbiotic relationship. In leu of creating better living conditions for our animal brethren, in leu of creating a relationship of mutual dependance, you choose to forgo such a relationship entirely. We may eat meat, but we have a choice, to do so without the suffering caused by the wolf pack after a life of struggling and fear, to instead be humane, give them love, protection, and lives free from the nightmares in the shadows. Do we still kill them? Yes, but in exchange they should get good quality lives as should their children.

My cat is not my pet, my cat is my family, we give each other love and companionship. I enjoy her playful antics, when she snuggles me and kitten kisses my nose at night, and she enjoys getting pet, being fed and having a warm roof over her head. Our relationship is symbiotic. I don't allow her outside, so you could argue she's my prisoner, but I very much doubt she'd be better off as a stray.

We're all prisoners to our fate too. We must work to eat, we give up large portions of our lives to see tomorrow, to have food upon our table, to get the simple comforts like a roof over our heads, eat. We can choose to roll over and die, to do none of these things if we wish of course. But that's just dying, we're no less slaves to our fortune than those cattle. In many ways some cattle have better lives than many humans, like that poor African boy mentioned earlier.

If I were given the choice to die tomorrow, but to have lived my life up until now without the bull# I've had to, I'd take it in a second. I've wasted much of my life for no other purpose than to fill some corporate assholes pocket while I struggle to eek out a moments peace for myself where I feel truly secure enough to relax.

So no, not eating meat is not the ethical choice, because as long as you live, your existence is by definition, unethical, as nature has seen fit to be certain that the choice to see another day is without question a selfish choice. For no moment that you draw breath does not someone or some thing suffer for that privilege.

Where we agree is that, we can seek to reduce suffering, I however believe it's best done by symbiosis and becoming in balance, creating a mutually beneficial relationship. It's that which will have the best long term results. Not stop eating meat, but respect where that meat is coming from and treating that sacrifice with the respect it is deserved.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: Puppylove

In the wild life is harsh, you think the way we kill cattle is bad? Imagine being a Buffalo, worn out, with a few bites out of you, run until you can run no longer, lying on the ground, tired, blood slowly trickling from your body. You want to live, so you keep fighting, heart pounding with each laborious breath as your life slowly fades. Around you waiting for your death, is the pack of wolves that hunted you down, the ravens cawing ravenously. You know what they want and you want no part of it, occasionally a wolf comes in to see if you've had enough, if it gets close enough, another bite is torn from your hide. You struggle, you find enough strength to shift your weight, you scare it off again. The pain and fear continues, but still you struggle on as the day passes. Hours upon hours of this continue as you fight and struggle to get in one more breath. Then it happens, your strength gives out, you have no more fight in you, not enough that matters anyway. You slump down, and in comes one of the wolves again, he bites and you shudder, you try to move, but you can't move enough. Another wolf comes in, and again you try but to no avail, and then it begins as they realize your fight is over you're done. They start tearing away your flesh, you feel each painful bite, and soon after hours of fear, of fighting for your life, in one last horrific struggle you finally die, painfully, as you're eaten literally alive.



Damn that made me hungry.... Is that wrong?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 02:55 PM
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a reply to: Son of Will

Everything that involves money is made of meat. The entire monetary system is made up of the collective blood sweat and tears of fellow humans, animals, ecosystems. It all runs together like rivers, all life has to pay to play. At the lower levels things get worse. A miserable first world citizen working a menial job. A hungry third world worker spending their lives making cheap products. Then the animals, farmed and bred, at this level money literally becomes the blood which you seek to avoid. But you can't avoid the metaphorical blood which can technically be considered more important since its made of human. Then at the bottom are the poor plants. The way this reads implies that eating meat is unethical but eating nonmeats that are created from a process that uses human lifeforce(subsequently animals and plants), is ethical. A noble sentiment but one that is inherently ignorant. I feel the most ethical way is to progress to more efficient food systems, like aquaculture Tilapia.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 03:02 PM
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a reply to: Son of Will

Don't want to question the reasons that make you change your diet, just one observation :

Do you consume dairy products ?
If yes, please thank the guys who eat beef ...
The cow will give milk only if she has a veal, what to do with veal if people don't eat meat ?
Farming is not just about keeping animals in captivity for later consumption.
Do you eat eggs ? Where do they come from ...

Go vegan if you wish, at least it makes more sense than vegetarianism ... I'll keep on eating dead animals for you.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 03:22 PM
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originally posted by: TheConstruKctionofLight
a reply to: Scouse100




Vbites celebration roast,
'

Why firstly would you need to emulate something that is so bad for you.....I know why.....because you prefer this chemical cocktail
VBites
www.vbitesfoods.com...

QUICK OVERVIEW
IngredientsWater, Wheat Gluten, Rapeseed Oil, Non-hydrogenated Vegetable Fat (sustainable palm), Soya Protein, Textured Wheat Protein, potato starch, Wheat Fibre, Salt, Wholemeal Wheat Rusk, Maltodextrin, Natural Flavourings, Dried Yeast, Herbs, Wheat Flour, Sugar, Yeast Extract, Preservative: Potassium Sorbate, Onion Powder, thickeners: Methyl Cellulose, carrageenan; Malt Extract, Herb & Spice Extracts, Garlic Powder, Dried Sage, colour: iron oxide, Black Pepp


Because a) I am veggy for ethical rather than health reasons, b) I usually home make my food from scratch but having 2 ferral pre-schoolers at Christmas time and a number of other chaos inducing things going on right now I ran out if time, c) I don't have a problem with eating a bit of rubbish every now and then, d) I am drinking enough beer over the festive period, so what's an extra few chemicals eh?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 04:01 PM
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a reply to: Scouse100

There are no ethical reasons reasons for being a veggie.

Now there are ethical reasons to protest animal cruelty and buy meat from places that do not practice it. Protesting/boycotting animal cruelty reliant farms while promoting and making profitable the humane ones.

If you really want to make a difference make treating animals right profitable and do as much as you can to treating them wrongly as unprofitable as possible.

Choosing to not eat meat is well just taking yourself out of the equation. No one gives a crap if you're a veggie, it helps no one and saves not a single life nor ends one little bit of suffering. Just complicates the lives of everyone around you while giving you some smug sense of moral superiority.

The corporations certainly don't care, even if they all overnight started treating their cattle ethically, making sure they had comfortable lives and a quick painless death, you still wouldn't be a buyer.

So tell me why should corporations or anyone change anything cause you choose to be veggie? You're not doing anything to fight the problem, and there's nothing anyone could do to satisfy you, and, then there's the hypocrisy that comes from your eating veggies who's existence on your table is drowned in blood as well.

Make a difference combat animal cruelty by combating animal cruelty, not by make smug personal choices that affect you, and you alone while not honestly making a difference.

It's not about ethics, it's about making yourself feel better. If it were about ethics, you'd be fighting for the ethical treatment of animals, not going veggie and going all three monkeys on the truth.



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