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Eating Meat is Unethical

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posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:22 AM
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a reply to: Son of Will

IF you look at all the stone tools ancient man and stone age man made, you will notice a lot of arrowheads and spear points. These were not used to kill trees. Eating meat is what allowed our brains to get big enough for us to make all the cool things we take for granted now. In short, eating meat is part of being human. Its fine if you decide not to eat it (more for me) its also fine if I decide to eat it. Animals even eat meat, and they don't even cook it first. I remember a few years ago people wanted to ban fishing because it was "cruel". Obviously none of these people have ever been on a coral reef and seen what these fish do to each other. It ain't pretty. The universe doesn't mind if we eat each other.




posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:24 AM
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originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: boymonkey74

Good point if Cows wanted to be not eaten they would have bright warning colors like some poison tree frog on them or camo patterned fur or something.



Evolution isn't perfect - we're all the story of "just good enoughs", genetically speaking. Just as long as we're fit enough to procreate, evolution doesn't really act upon us much further. Hence our horrible diseases of old age.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:25 AM
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a reply to: openminded2011

We destroy so many animals just growing food and such also.
Vegans do eat other animals unknowingly all the time so...



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:31 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: purplemer

Thing is some do not including veggies and meat eaters.
Also cooking I'm shocked at the level of people who do not know anything about cooking or how to keep food etc.
I caught a lad attempting to defrost a chicken by pouring boiling water on it...



B12 is an issue for eveyone, not just vegans. The problem is absorbtion, not simply getting the vitamin into your body.
enews.tufts.edu...



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:33 AM
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originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: boymonkey74

I think a large population of cows are happier than if they were struggling in the wild. I know my best friend has a farm in kansas with 100 head of Charolais Cows. He gives each a acre of grass to eat at any given time, no predators, plenty of water.


You can train a slave to love their servitude.

Does that make it right to enslave another creature, just because they are "happy"?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:37 AM
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originally posted by: burdman30ott6

originally posted by: UniFinity
Or would you let your kids watch or do the butchering of the animals or rather let them pluck plants?...i thought so. Case closed.


My kids have been helping in the processing of game and fish since they were toddlers. My 8 year old daughter can fillet a salmon cleaner than most adults and my 9 year old son can skin out small game like a machine. They are equally comfortable field dressing Bambi as they are picking a bucketful of crow berries (although they do tend to eat as many berries as find their way into the buckets, whereas they know not to graze off of carcasses.) So that argument fails, friend.


Your kids will lose a great deal of respect for you when they finally come to understand that killing those animals was fundamentally wrong. They might even hate you for teaching them that such wanton cruelty is Okay.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: Son of Will




Does that make it right to enslave another creature, just because they are "happy"?



They do this with humans, its called a job and most of us are NOT happy.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:42 AM
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i already commented on this thread but i feel like i should say that its impossible to get everyone to be 100% perfect and ethical with their diet. because...

pescatarians think they are some how better then meat eaters
vegetarians are better then pescatarians
vegans are better then vegetarians
raw foodists are better then vegans

and who is the best and most ethical of them all:

the BREATHARIAN. (yes that is a thing)
living solely off of air and sunshine.


lol so where does it end?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:46 AM
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originally posted by: dreamlotus1111
i already commented on this thread but i feel like i should say that its impossible to get everyone to be 100% perfect and ethical with their diet. because...

pescatarians think they are some how better then meat eaters
vegetarians are better then pescatarians
vegans are better then vegetarians
raw foodists are better then vegans

and who is the best and most ethical of them all:

the BREATHARIAN. (yes that is a thing)
living solely off of air and sunshine.


lol so where does it end?


Exactly


Best post in the thread (minus the pictures)



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:53 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
Thing is the cows and lambs will all be extinct 50 years after we make lab meat.
Their doom is inevitable.
Just like 99.99% of all animals.
TBH should we even be attempting to help some like the Panda? (whos major evolutionary cockup is a small penis) because they are cute? their habitat will be gone so should we even spend the millions we do so we can have them just in zoos?.
yeah our fault I know but how many species go extinct every day?.
Ooops mind wandering sorry OP.


No worries, that is an interesting line of thought - if the only way a species can survive is in abject slavery to a predatory species, then... What do we do? What's better? But whatever the solution, that doesn't justify butchering and eating them, IMO.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 05:56 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
It's been proven plants feel, eat. There's nothing we can eat that does not harm another. Even if we went pure vegan, we'd be killing animals in droves by demolishing their homes for our farmland, and killing them rather than sharing the bounty.

There's as much blood on the hands of vegans as everyone else.

Nature is not a happy fluffy place, with or without humans. And nature quite often takes hours, to a whole day or more for some predators to kill their prey.

There is no moral high ground when it comes to survival. Mother Gaea is a cold hearted bitch like that. It's kill or be killed, it's that simple. Just because a person decides to eat only plant matter while ignoring those they are robbing food from, chasing from their homes, and causing the outright slaughter of does not change that.


No. To experience suffering requires a brain to formulate subjective experience, and a nervous system to transmit signals to that brain. Plants have neither. Every action they perform is explainable through chemical processes.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 06:11 AM
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originally posted by: DeceptioVisus

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: DeceptioVisus




Until you can provide affordable organic vegetables, seeds, and fruits then it seems animal protein is more of a thing for the poor.


The funny thing is that is far more expensive., uses far more land and far more toxic to the environment to create meat than it is vegetables.




I disagree. Maybe commercially. Even that's debatable. On a real life personal level I can't afford to shop at the Neighborhood Coop and there are no farmers market around here. On 5 acres I can pasture raise enough beef and pork to feed my whole family for nearly a year. My animals are treated like royalty and my pastures stay green.

I am a serious gardener and I grow as much fruit and vegetables as possible. I freeze and can as much organic fruit and vegetable as one person can. I cannot come close to feeding my whole family for a year with organic vegetables.

I compost and will not allow chemicals on my farm. If you think pasture raised animals are worse on the environment than the GMO/round up ready corn and beans grown around me then you are grossly misinformed.

When it comes to expense of storing plants vs animal protein, plants are far less economical.

Your post holds no weight in the real world where people have to eat or die and you can get a cheeseburger for $2 but a salad cost $7.


This sounds more like you choosing to maintain an obsolete and unethical way of life.
You could convert your entire setup into growing produce, feed your family 10x over, and you wouldn't need to enslave and slaughter another creature ever again. Or if you're in a colder climate, invest in greenhouse technology. As I said before, you can train a slave to love their servitude. But that doesn't make it right, just because they are "happy".

If you're talking about shopping at Burger King, then your comparison of a $2 burger vs $7 salad might apply. But things like beans, rice, potatoes, tomatoes, flour, carrots, celery, mushrooms, etc. Dirt cheap. Under a dollar a pound. For almost everyone living in a Western society, there's no excuse.

It's cheaper, healthier, more sustainable, not fraught with inherent cruelty, etc. It's a full-spectrum life upgrade.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 06:13 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Scouse100

Well then I'll see you on the African Savannah in the middle of a pride of lions trying to stop them from eating meat and preaching the benefits of veganism. I look forward to your success.

I mean, after all ... PETA says you can do it with your onw cats and dogs.

So why not take up your cross and preach it to the our wild brethren?



How can such a bad argument be so popular? Let me clear that up for you.

Lions need to hunt to survive. Humans don't. Not anymore.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: Son of Will
It's a full-spectrum life upgrade.


Actually it is bad for you, bad for the environment so it is actually a life downgrade!



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 06:18 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: ketsuko

Also everyone eats animals If they have flour, bread,chocolate,pasta loads of insects in all them.


Good point. But there is a huge difference. Eating meat requires killing an animal. Eating grains doesn't. And that's more an issue of quality control, and not so much one of ethics. I mean, we all gotta eat!

Veganism is about minimizing the suffering of animals. So we just do the best we can. To be fair, we all indirectly endorse all kinds of horrible crap, all day long. Most modern electronics are associated with slave labor, for example.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 06:27 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: Scouse100

Sure you CAN but what suffering are you honestly preventing when you do so? We are a higher order mammal, whether we eat meat or vegetable matter, others die and suffer so that we may live.

So yes you have a choice, but in what way does that choice matter or change anything in the grand scheme of things?


Because this - an animal not eaten today is an animal not slaughtered tomorrow. It's removing business, removing the direct endorsement of that industry. Of course the meat is already dead but we have great economic power in what we choose or not choose to buy.



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 06:32 AM
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The only reason a veggie only diet is an option today is because of transport. Before transport if an area ran out of veggies you had to eat meat or go hunting for it.

Man has not survived the centuries by eating veggies alone. How many times have the crops failed because of a poor rain season or maybe it over rained and drowned the crops?

I wonder how many weeks of eating nothing, would it take today for the veggie loonies to get out their bow and go looking for wild game? I'm talking anything.... bird, crow, Squirrel, mouse, possum?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 06:55 AM
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originally posted by: Son of Will
This may sound outrageous, but in reality it is deceptively simple. All I need is one paragraph to make a 100% iron-tight argument. (Two caveats: first, by 'eat animals' I refer to the industry of keeping livestock or attacking animals for the purpose of consuming them or a byproduct of them. Roadkill is fair game. Second, those not living in a modern, Western society, without access to  the foods we take for granted, cannot be included. This is for the modern world. Anyone living in poverty must think of themselves and their loved ones first before other animals. I'm not advocating martyrdom.)
 


I believe that's the end of your first paragraph.
so... you failed.
good job



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: Puppylove

Thanks for the well-though-out comment.


There are ethical ways to eat meat.


No there aren't - besides the two caveats in the OP.

You can train a slave to love its servitude but that doesn't make it right.


If it weren't for our pets, our cattle, and the animals in our lives everyday, we truly would become a virus destroying all in our path.


That doesn't sound very likely - we are all born as highly empathetic creatures, born to love in many ways, so only a dehumanizing culture can lead to that. But you do raise a decent point about how to incorporate other species into our increasingly human-centric planet.
Is that an argument for keeping them as food? No. There are other ways - the way of domesticated species like dogs and cats for example, or crows. Or we can let the species go extinct, which might be inevitable regardless of what we do today. But none of this is an argument for either subjugation or slaughter.


There must be a healthy balance./



Between ethical and unethical behavior? Between eating meat and respecting animals? Why must there be such a "balance"? Because you really want to justify your bad habits by pretending that there are ethical ways to enslave another species?


My issue with vegans, is the extreme they fall into.

They neither seek nor understand balance they wouldn't know it. Is clear in the way they glorify the natural world with rose covered glasses, unwilling and incapable of seeing the darkness that fills our universe. Choosing to instead of seeing the universe true, deflect all that is bad and horrible onto mankind.


Living according to principle may seem extreme to someone still heavily brainwashed by society. But in reality, what vegans advocate is extremely practical in every way. It is vastly more sustainable. Much healthier. The "balance" you advocate is not one of harmony with the environment, but rather one between necessary and unnecessary cruelty. That's insane, and not practical in the slightest, neither short term nor long term.

It seems the only argument you really have is, what to do with all these species of livestock, if not eat them? How about using your obvious creativity and intelligence to think of a solution that is not fraught with inherent cruelty?



posted on Dec, 26 2015 @ 07:05 AM
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originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
a reply to: Son of Will

Not sure how eating meat can be called unethical...nor would eating a cheeseburger with bacon be aggressive. Plus, the roadkill could have died an aggressive death, some people aim to kill.

Deciding to go vegetarian or vegan is a personal choice. I was vegetarian for about 5 years but always felt like something was missing, and there was...meat


So I'll continue to eat meat, be thankful for the food chain and know that I'm not doing anything unethical.


Eating meat directly endorses the Livestock industry. Basically, an animal not eaten today is an animal not slaughtered tomorrow. They're called dollar votes. Of course the meat is dead already but by paying for it you are making it possible for more creatures to be killed in the future.
Does the OP make a bit more sense now?



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