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Eating Meat is Unethical

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posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 08:30 AM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus




Did you just claim chimpanzees were vegan? Maybe you should tell this guy:


We are not monkeys..





posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 08:35 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero




You missed my point of since we evolved million plus years with meat then it is a part of us.


we ate poop off the ocean floor for far longer.. is that something you like to do




posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero


The part I do not understand is how is it wrong, against nature to do what we evolved to do just because we can say I'm going to eat an apple and not the goat?

if we take a previous example of an alien coming to earth, which are advanced in every why and would see as stupid horny hairless monkeys. And they would want to eat you. Your meat is like bacon to them. What would you say than? would it be wrong to eat you or not? they are far higher on an evolutionary scale after all.

Don't know for you, for me it is wrong and I would fight/run for my life. Evolution is just a mechanism of nature and should not be used for measurement of right and wrong about what to eat. For this you should ask your heart which is a by product of evolution and an instrument made by nature so we can feel what is right or wrong, when our minds say different.



energy...


this does not say much. I am energy now as are you and probably everything material and nonmaterial is a form of energy...what are the workings of this energy? I know reincarnation, karma and few other universal principles are a part of it...But this is just my view of the universal workings, I do not expect for anyone else to take them for granted.

But if you agree that hurting people is wrong in any way, than this should also include animals or even plants? and if not, why not, what is your opinion?



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: saadad




Supplements you need is only b12 and today's modern world that is at least toxic supplement. What we were ment to be we are no longer.


You can ferment b12 with just veg tables.. no need for supplements.





posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 09:05 AM
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originally posted by: purplemer
We are not monkeys..



Although we do share a common meat-eating ancestor.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: purplemer

You can ferment b12 with just veg tables.. no need for supplements.


Dangerous disinformation: miso, sauerkraut and tempeh contain an analogue form of B12 which is inactive. This form of B12 is not useful to our bodies and it can also interfere with the absorption of the active form of B12 which is the one we need.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 11:30 AM
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posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 12:59 PM
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a reply to: Agartha


Thank you for your post. I am aware that some forms of b12 made by fermentation are not absorbable into the body.
However if you mix in b12 rich greens like seaweed then you have something that works. Its not misinformation it works. I dont take b12 supplements i have not even animals for a long time and my blood levels are fine..




posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 01:02 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus




Although we do share a common meat-eating ancestor.


Yes and as mammals also share herbivore ancestory..



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: purplemer

Yes and as mammals also share herbivore ancestory..


Which would make us omnivores just like our ancestors.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: purplemer

we ate poop off the ocean floor for far longer.. is that something you like to do



I said millions not billions...lol so maybe in another million years we will not want meat either.



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
if we take a previous example of an alien coming to earth, which are advanced in every why and would see as stupid horny hairless monkeys. And they would want to eat you. Your meat is like bacon to them. What would you say than? would it be wrong to eat you or not? they are far higher on an evolutionary scale after all.

Don't know for you, for me it is wrong and I would fight/run for my life. Evolution is just a mechanism of nature and should not be used for measurement of right and wrong about what to eat. For this you should ask your heart which is a by product of evolution and an instrument made by nature so we can feel what is right or wrong, when our minds say different.


I can't ask my heart it is only a muscle that pumps blood, but you are right in your statement right or wrong is not a part of all this. I'm sure a gazelle killed by a lion doesn't want to be eaten so is that a wrong thing? You and I are stuck because what we see as wrong are far a part. For me to kill for fun only is wrong but to kill to eat is not. To kill in defense is also not wrong, but to kill because you can is. I do not kill animals because I can, nor do I want animals killed for little or no purpose. I also see a level of brain function in animals that I personally do not want to past that line to eat if I do not need to. The difference between us is your line is well below mine.




this does not say much. I am energy now as are you and probably everything material and nonmaterial is a form of energy...what are the workings of this energy? I know reincarnation, karma and few other universal principles are a part of it...But this is just my view of the universal workings, I do not expect for anyone else to take them for granted.


Well once again this drives much of your views on all life. What is life is the question. Why is life special and non-life isn't. To me life is a made up human term that we created to say life and mainly us are special in some way, but when you break it all down we are chemical reactions, elements etc just like what non-life is too. We are only special because we say we are and not that I need to do "good" (another human creation) so I do not come back as a dung beetle.



But if you agree that hurting people is wrong in any way, than this should also include animals or even plants? and if not, why not, what is your opinion?


Like I said hurting is wrong, but killing for the right reasons is not wrong, and that goes for grass and humans alike.


edit on 28-12-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: purplemer

Thank you for your post. I am aware that some forms of b12 made by fermentation are not absorbable into the body.
However if you mix in b12 rich greens like seaweed then you have something that works. Its not misinformation it works. I dont take b12 supplements i have not even animals for a long time and my blood levels are fine..



I'm glad you do regular blood tests and you are ok: I have met vegan patients who didn't and were fine until they developed symptoms, mainly tingling in fingers and toes. When symptoms develop it means the deficiency is at a dangerous level.

Seaweed is not a plant, it's an algae (I posted about this on this thread).

I, based on evidence, do not think nori (seaweed) is a good source of B12: (you may know already that MMA -methylmalonic acid- indicates the level of B12, the higher the MMA levels, the lower the B12 levels)




In a 2014 study from Germany (45), a group of 10 whole foods vegans, who did not take supplements, were found to have MMA levels of almost 400 nmol/l (healthy MMA levels are 270 nmol/l or less). A second group of vegans who supplemented – it's not clear with how much but it seems to have been at least 2 doses of 1,000 µg/week of B12 on average – had MMA levels of just above 200 nmol/l.

The whole foods-only vegans were given a minimum of 12 g/week of nori and 15 g/week of sun dried mushrooms, which the researchers calculated to contain an average of 3.1 µg/day of vitamin B12. Their MMA levels were measured every 2 months for 8 months and they did not dip much below 350 nmol/l.

The vegans who took supplements were given more B12 than normal (though it's not clear how much), and their MMA levels steadily decreased to about 150 nmol/l at 6 months, but then back up to 200 nmol/l at 8 months.

This research indicates that at the amounts given, nori and sun dried mushrooms do not improve vitamin B12 status.
LINK


As the full text is not available for free, here is a vegan site that also talks about it: LINK


edit on 28-12-2015 by Agartha because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: Xtrozero


nice replay. I understand what you are saying. But don't diss karma so childishly, I have a feeling you have not researched the subject in depth to make such a dung statement : )



Like I said hurting is wrong, but killing for the right reasons is not wrong, and that goes for grass and humans alike.


For me personally, killing is never right except in self defence and as last option in cases where it is needed to stay alive. Just to kill for my desires for taste seems so incredibly selfish to me. And I would not like to even eat the plants or other living stuff if I could manage to figure out the sun gazing practice or some other sustainable source. And I am actually wired enough to believe it can be done. But with lifetime dedication on correct spiritual practices. Another topic...but if anyone is interested than google something with keywords like: prana yoga and try to find some old indian sources about the topic.

Back to the thread...what do you think about the following.
Where do you draw the line with desire ...
like greed?
like sex?
and all other desires?

And what is stopping you to kill something when it gets in your way somehow when you want to fulfill random desire?
Are desires the right reason to kill when you have alternatives? It may not be tasty like meat but it is more healthy alternative ... but ohh the dung taste, right? : )

Oh from this context we could even say that we have many ways to satisfy the desires. And we can even say that some other extremes with other type of desire is punishable by law. For instance,

desire for sex - rape
greed for money - murder
jealousy - stalking
...
hunger - killing?

what are your thoughts about that? Why are we allowing hunger to exuse killing when there are scientifically proven other diets which are healthier.
Wired or not? Ethical?
Other than the obvious answer. One is human. One is animal in my examples above. And If you wanna say that is the whole point...

I would say than ...Okey... am So lets get back to the alien : )

Would an awesome imaginable alien entity won an argument in the court for human is animal or would he lose due to ethics?

my answer:
To me it seems like we are to much hung on about eating for pleasure where instead we should be eating for health and only with that in mind!
desires suck, the main cause of suffering. More you indulge in it, more it has its fangs in you and the deeper they go, easier it is to accept another set.
hm...Wired metaphor, let me try again.
What I meant was the more you indulge in one desire, the easier it is to fall for other desires. So we should try to avoid them if you want to feel happy and content.
edit on 14513373851216December1612163115 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)


(post by franky2 removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Dec, 28 2015 @ 04:11 PM
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originally posted by: UniFinity
And I would not like to even eat the plants or other living stuff if I could manage to figure out the sun gazing practice or some other sustainable source. And I am actually wired enough to believe it can be done. But with lifetime dedication on correct spiritual practices. Another topic...but if anyone is interested than google something with keywords like: prana yoga and try to find some old indian sources about the topic.


I read this and I see a person who hates who they are and what they need to do, who is forever wanting to change but can't and still live. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing either, just that I'm comfortable with where I am in the chain of life.



Back to the thread...what do you think about the following.
Where do you draw the line with desire ...
like greed?
like sex?
and all other desires?


Easy, if it causes pain in others then it is wrong, though at times it is still needed, such in the case of killing another human, but most can be good or bad. None of these are wrong if done in the right way and everyone of them is needed. As example, one could say a level of greed for a better life is a big driver in being successful and so a family has a better life, is greed still a bad thing here?



And what is stopping you to kill something when it gets in your way somehow when you want to fulfill random desire?
Are desires the right reason to kill when you have alternatives? It may not be tasty like meat but it is more healthy alternative ... but ohh the dung taste, right? : )


As I said I have a line I do not cross, but in your case you do not have a line so every time you eat you are going against your beliefs. I do not eat meat because it just tastes good I eat it because it is a part of my food chain and I do not see a reason to remove it as I do not see a reason to remove veggies either, though I could.




Oh from this context we could even say that we have many ways to satisfy the desires. And we can even say that some other extremes with other type of desire is punishable by law. For instance,


desire for sex - rape
greed for money - murder
jealousy - stalking
...
hunger - killing?

what are your thoughts about that? Why are we allowing hunger to exuse killing when there are scientifically proven other diets which are healthier.


As I said I see meat as part of my food group so meat is no worst or better than anything else in the food group. Would you switch to dung tasting crackers if they didn't cause the death of one life, plant or animal to happen, but provided all nutrients?



Would an awesome imaginable alien entity won an argument in the court for human is animal or would he lose due to ethics?


Humans are animals and aliens can eat us and we can fight back not to be eaten. You keep throwing in the right/wrong ethical/unethical moral/unmoral aspects to all this that even you can not live up to, and also live yourself. I tell you what, you stop eating any form of life for a month and I'll stop eating meat for a month, deal? It seems you' are the one that is labeling what can be eaten and what cannot as you give me continuous 'what ifs" scenarios..lol

Why do you put the life of a cow over that of a plant? You could limit yourself to few nuts and beans types that you can take from plants that would not hurt the plant in anyway during the process. So be honest with me, have you killed or hurt a plant at any point that you were not in survival mode dying from hunger?



What I meant was the more you indulge in one desire, the easier it is to fall for other desires. So we should try to avoid them if you want to feel happy and content.


But I am already happy and content...




edit on 28-12-2015 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 05:17 AM
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a reply to: Xtrozero

very interesting thoughts, thanks for answering!

Everything can be used for good or bad. Even desires and greed in your instance is cool if you can distance yourself from it. When desires good or bad start to cloud your well being than this is a problem for me. That is why I say that less desires a person has the happier a person is.



I read this and I see a person who hates who they are and what they need to do, who is forever wanting to change but can't and still live. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing either, just that I'm comfortable with where I am in the chain of life.


I feel good in my skin also, that makes two of us. Even if it seems that way to you that is not the truth about me.
To me it seems there are so many secrets and hidden gems waiting to be discovered, even inside of us that it is just amazing experience to have a human body and mind and living through life. The internal world we can experience and all the external stuff too, it is wonderful and I am learning everyday about myself and the world around me and this is awesome. I am enjoying the ride till it ends like a dream. You may think that sense pleasures are all we can experience, while you have never probably experienced pure bliss from deep meditation. It would probably blew you mind in ecstasy, it is a comn occurrence for everyone experiencing it. So from my standing materialistic people are missing out so much...they are relying on senses for happiness. That is just a pity.



Humans are animals and aliens can eat us and we can fight back not to be eaten. You keep throwing in the right/wrong ethical/unethical moral/unmoral aspects to all this that even you can not live up to, and also live yourself. I tell you what, you stop eating any form of life for a month and I'll stop eating meat for a month, deal? It seems you' are the one that is labeling what can be eaten and what cannot as you give me continuous 'what ifs" scenarios..lol

Why do you put the life of a cow over that of a plant? You could limit yourself to few nuts and beans types that you can take from plants that would not hurt the plant in anyway during the process. So be honest with me, have you killed or hurt a plant at any point that you were not in survival mode dying from hunger?


well well...I did not eat anything for about a month, or to be more exact three weeks. I was on a water fast. It was easy if you are well prepared mentally and physically and you can check my post history I have written about the experience a few times on ats...So ... when will you stop meat for a month? hehe

Hey it is ok, I don't want to convert anyone!
I am just thinking out loud and enjoying reading other thoughts, you seem very understandable and a nice person.

about the second point. of course I did when I was younger, but now days I rarely kill any plant intentionally without a cause like just so I can see it or pick it up.

edit on 14513883401225December2512253115 by UniFinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 05:27 AM
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Man this is one of those threads that are deep ....



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 05:29 AM
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Are you a member of the church of Scientology
Or do you know someone from
That church
Or are you really Tom Cruise

I looooooove a beef roast
And my God says he made all the animals on earth and they are for food
Even the little bugs and beetles
I loooooooooove lamb tooooo



posted on Dec, 29 2015 @ 10:34 AM
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This child gets it.





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