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Adolf Hitler And The Freemasons

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posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by Roark
 


Hitler was a creature of the freemasonry for that simple reason, he evolved in a place and time were the occultism and antisemitism rule. And that came from the lodge. Henry Ford, a brother wrote is "The International Jew", Churchill another Brother wrote is "Zionism versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People.", The Old Prussian Lodge was praising antisemitism and pan-germanism(the establishement of the german in the whole Europe) and they never stop to talk against their internationalist brothers who praised the universal fraternity, and the founder of the Thule Society, a great source of inspiration of Hitler was also an freemason.

The nazi ideology is born in the Lodge.




posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 12:48 AM
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reply to post by topsecretombomb
 


It's probably true, but these masons was the minority, from the irregular lodge who initiate jews.



[edit on 29-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by topsecretombomb



I read somewhere that the Freemasons they executed were under the category "Political prisoner."



Technically, yes, although usually only top Masonic leaders were executed. Most average Masons that were non-Jewish were not executed, but were instead jailed and used as slave labor.

Kerosene's claim that only "irregular" Masons were persecuted is demonstrably false. A very good example is Karl Germer, who eventually escaped from a concentration camp and settled in the USA. Although while in the middle ages the Lodges only admitted Christians, this was changed in 1717, where it was stated that only a belief in a Supreme Being would be required to become a Freemason (and that's been the rule ever since in regular Masonry).



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 11:01 AM
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Another freemason's lie, you are good for the whitewash.

The Old Prussian NEVER initiate a jew.

GERMANY’S GRAND LODGES UP TO 1930




At the beginning of 1930, Germany comprized some 75,000 Masons and nine regular Grand Lodges, the numerical importance of which was very different (see Table 1). About two-thirds of the brethren belonged to the three oldest, always Christian-oriented and at that time strongly nationalistic Grand Lodges founded in the 18th century which were called ‘Old Prussian’ because they were founded and had their seats in Berlin. They never initiated ‘non-Christians’, the then usual expression to designate Jews. Along the 19th century, five more German Grand Lodges were founded and a further one in 1924. They were called ‘humanitarian’ and initiated men of any religious denomination (see Table 2). In 1922, the Old Prussian Grand Lodges decided to withdraw from the German Grand Lodges’ Alliance founded in 1872, explaining: « There is a border which strongly differentiates humanitarian from Old Prussian national Freemasonry. We, the three Old Prussian Grand Lodges, refuse to take part in the general humanitarian fraternization movement between people in the world. » (Steffens, p. 332)





www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...



[edit on 29-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by Kerosene
Another freemason's lie, you are good for the whitewash.

The Old Prussian NEVER initiate a jew.



Now it's you being caught lying. I never said anything about the so-called "Old Prussians". I said that the regular Lodges in Germany initiated Jews just like regular Lodges do everywhere else. The fact that the "Old Prussian" lodges accepted only Christians has nothing to do with it. The regular ones admitted non-Christians, and were regognized by the United Grand Lodge of England (who also admits non-Christians). It was the "Old Prussians" who turned anti-Masonic, and created the Christian Order of Frederick the Great to oppose regular Masonry.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


It's false.

The Old Prussians was part of the regular freemasonry of germany, and the biggest one, two third of the Freemasonry, and they continue to have relation after a short break with the regular freemasonry of England and the United-States.


GERMANY’S GRAND LODGES UP TO 1930



At the beginning of 1930, Germany comprized some 75,000 Masons and nine regular Grand Lodges, the numerical importance of which was very different (see Table 1). About two-thirds of the brethren belonged to the three oldest, always Christian-oriented and at that time strongly nationalistic Grand Lodges founded in the 18th century which were called ‘Old Prussian’ because they were founded and had their seats in Berlin. They never initiated ‘non-Christians’, the then usual expression to designate Jews. Along the 19th century, five more German Grand Lodges were founded and a further one in 1924. They were called ‘humanitarian’ and initiated men of any religious denomination (see Table 2). In 1922, the Old Prussian Grand Lodges decided to withdraw from the German Grand Lodges’ Alliance founded in 1872, explaining: « There is a border which strongly differentiates humanitarian from Old Prussian national Freemasonry. We, the three Old Prussian Grand Lodges, refuse to take part in the general humanitarian fraternization movement between people in the world. » (Steffens, p. 332)



www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

The only lodge who opposed them was the symbolic lodge, it's was less then 2% of the german freemasonry.

Sorry, stop lying.

They were regular freemasons, from the Oldest Grand Lodge of Germany.

[edit on 29-8-2007 by Kerosene]

[edit on 29-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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And explain me that, why, if the Old Prussian was anti-mason, they create back german freemasonry after the failure of the nazi party? And they join at key position in the lodge.

Anti-mason who join back freemasonry after their participation in the nazi atrocities?????


[edit on 29-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by Kerosene
.... and they continue to have relation after a short break with the regular freemasonry of England and the United-States.


That's not what it says on the UGLE's web site; here are all of the European Grand Lodges that are recognized by the UGLE:
www.grandlodge-england.org...

Here is the recognized Grand Lodge in Germany:
www.freimaurer.org...

It has English and French versions of its site, just click the flag.


[edit on 8/29/2007 by JustMe74]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 05:49 PM
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reply to post by Kerosene
 


You may find it beneficial to expand your reading on the subject.

themasonictrowel.com...

freemasonry.bcy.ca...

mill-valley.freemasonry.biz...

www.freedomdomain.com...


Originally posted by Kerosene
Henry Ford, a brother wrote is "The International Jew", Churchill another Brother wrote is "Zionism versus Bolshevism: A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People."

Have you read the article by Churchill - I think you may find that you have misconcieved its content.

library.flawlesslogic.com...

Interesting article. Churchill was a confirmed anti-Bolshevic, made no pretence of the matter and was actually involved in a covert operation to undermine the Bolshevic state around the time of Lenin's death - at which point the operation was abandoned (?). He was also pro-Zionist (though not necessarily pro-Jewish, his motivations were more economic).

arts.independent.co.uk...


Originally posted by Kerosene
The nazi ideology is born in the Lodge.


Quite the sweeping statement - care to elaborate on this, I would be genuinely interested. Do you have any names for the Nazis who resumed their positions within freemasonry post-war?



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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Originally posted by JustMe74

Originally posted by Kerosene
.... and they continue to have relation after a short break with the regular freemasonry of England and the United-States.


That's not what it says on the UGLE's web site; here are all of the European Grand Lodges that are recognized by the UGLE:
www.grandlodge-england.org...

Here is the recognized Grand Lodge in Germany:
www.freimaurer.org...

It has English and French versions of its site, just click the flag.


[edit on 8/29/2007 by JustMe74]


He ho, the old prussian didn't exist anymore, it's was regular freemasonry approve by the english freemasonry, here's an abstract of a dicourse made by Lord Ampthill, pro Grand Master of the UGLE in 1912, reported in Alpina 1912 who was invited by the three Old Prussian Lodge.


… all the English Masons will accept with pleasure closer and more frequent relations with our Brothers of Germany since all their principles are absolutely ours, since nothing in their maconnic principles is in conflict with their social, moral and religious duties, and since the history of their Grand Lodge is closely related to that of the Grand Lodge of England.



Reference 10 in that text

www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

After that, many prussian brothers goes to london and Lord Ampthill says there german brothers were an spiritual example for the british mason.

Sorry I have to go, but there is more thing to come, don't worry





[edit on 30-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 07:53 PM
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Few years later, the first world war break, the Old Prussian Lodge break relation with Les Franc-Maçons de l'entente, the swiss freemasonry and with UGLE, until 1928. In 1917 The Grand Land Lodge published an article saying 99% of the freemasonry is corrupted by the international brotherhood, the international freemasonry who was their hereditary ennemy.



One of the biggest regular Grand Lodge in Germany

Freemasonry make good man better.

To be continued.





[edit on 30-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 10:05 PM
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Well, you've posted that table 3 times now... so I'm assuming you've only got the one source for this stuff (which isn't necessarily an issue).

Let's assume your source is correct.

If the Old Prussians truly did ignore the Antient Charges and disciminate based upon religion, then their Craft Masonry was irrregular by nature, even if that wasn't recognised at the time.

The Antient Charges, which are foundational to Freemasonry, say the following:

'Let a man's religion or mode of worship be what it may, he is not excluded from the order provided he believe in the glorious architect of heaven and earth and practise the sacred duties of morality.'

So, if what you are saying is true, they were acting in direct contravention to Regular Freemasonry.

The end (?)



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 10:08 PM
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Oh, and just FYI, the Old Prussian Friendship lodge apparently accepted Jews between 1872 and 1924, but not thereafter. I'm trying to find a couple of different sources for this.



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Roark
Well, you've posted that table 3 times now... so I'm assuming you've only got the one source for this stuff (which isn't necessarily an issue).

Let's assume your source is correct.

If the Old Prussians truly did ignore the Antient Charges and disciminate based upon religion, then their Craft Masonry was irrregular by nature, even if that wasn't recognised at the time.

The Antient Charges, which are foundational to Freemasonry, say the following:

'Let a man's religion or mode of worship be what it may, he is not excluded from the order provided he believe in the glorious architect of heaven and earth and practise the sacred duties of morality.'

So, if what you are saying is true, they were acting in direct contravention to Regular Freemasonry.

The end (?)


The UGLE recognized them as regular freemason. And nope, it's not my only source, but it's my only freemason's source who get his info directly from the german freemasonry's archive.

You make me laught, it's not irregular freemasonry because they break the antient charge....

A catholic who kill is not a real catholic?

Pure bullsh it, these masons were members of regular lodges who was praised by the UGLE.

Ok the story continue, the Freemasonry's rewriting of History


It was outside the scope of that paper to mention that about 1946 leading German Masons secretly agreed never to mention masonic events from the 1920-1935 period. The first public Declaration of the United Grand Lodge of Germany, issued on 22 January 1949, gave a version of the past which had little in common with factual truth. It asserted that not one single German Mason had taken part in the Nazi crimes, which may have been true. Nevertheless, in 1949, former members of the Nazi party such as Wilhelm Lorenz (a member since 1 July 1936), Hermann Dörner (1 March 1937), Udo Sonanini (1 January 1938), Kurt Hendrikson (1 January 1941), Herbert Kessler (1 May 1941) and Karl Hoede (with the personal authorization of Hitler from 4 August 1942 since he was a Mason from 1920 to July 1933; Hoedes son married Theodor Vogels daughter) already were or became soon prominent Masons under the new German republic. [ii]

In 1945 and in 1949, The Masonic Service Association had sent two delegations headed by Bro. Ray V. Denslow, P.G.M. of Missouri, to Germany. Among the first delegation was Judge (Bro.) George Edward Bushnell, then Grand Lieutenant Commander of the Supreme Council, Northern Masonic Jurisdiction of the U.S.A. Bro. Martin Dietz, P.G.M. of New Jersey, who spoke German fluently, belonged to the second one. The report signed by Denslow and Dietz proves that American delegates received biased and incomplete information. It did not mention once the Symbolic Grand Lodge of Germany or the Supreme Council for Germany, both founded in 1930, the only German Masonic bodies which openly resisted Hitler. Nor did it mention the declarations of Prussian Grand Lodges which openly supported him in 1933 and 1934. It depicted an imaginary German Freemasonry too weak to resist the Nazis and forcibly dissolved in 1933. That information, which reflected the agreement to forget the past, mostly originated in Theodor Vogel. Had the American delegates been fully informed of the attitude of most German Masons in the 1930s, I presume that their report would have been different.


bessel.org...

[edit on 30-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 30 2007 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Roark
Oh, and just FYI, the Old Prussian Friendship lodge apparently accepted Jews between 1872 and 1924, but not thereafter. I'm trying to find a couple of different sources for this.


They never initiate jew, but they accept jew initiated in other lodge as visitor.

Here's a quote taken from a freemason's text which rewrite History..


The problem which bedevilled and split the masonic order in Germany for years on end was the so-called 'Jewish question'.2 In its original form it referred to religious rather than racial prejudice. The three 'Old Prussian' Grand Lodges had always refused to accept Jews for initiation, because their Craft degrees were followed by higher ones of a Christian character.3 Thus as far as the 'Old Prussians' were concerned one brief but important passage in the Antient Charges was ignored. It reads: 'Let a man's religion or mode of worship be what it may, he is not excluded from the order provided he believe in the glorious architect of heaven and earth and practise the sacred duties of morality.'
The six 'Humanitarian' Grand Lodges, on the other hand, nominally made no distinction between Christian and Jew. This did not mean that every Jewish candidate could be sure of joining a lodge because exclusion by blackball was not unknown. However, once a Jew became a Freemason he could attend 'Old Prussian' Craft lodges as a visitor.
Superficially at least, the overall situation was that the 'Old Prussian' Grand Lodges represented ultraconservative attitudes while the 'Humanitarian' obediences were more liberally inclined. The 'Jewish question' in the sense that it was perenially a source of controversy between the two groups was probably always basically insoluble. Nevertheless, as long as it was solely based on religious prejudice some kind of modus vivendi, although never a completely satisfactory one, was contrived.


freemasonry.bcy.ca...

And BTW, Churchill a mason, was saying there's was jewish people who was malevolant and who conspire for the making of a communist jewish world, and Marx, Weishaupt and others were involved..... When Hitler read that while he was under the Weimar Republic, were leftist jew was in power...... qhat do you think he think? And what about the International Jew written by Henry Ford? Almost all major influence of Hitler came from freemasonry.



And according to Lenni Brenner, Hitler was a Zionist too, he think jews in Palestine and not in Europe was a good thing. He expressed that in a discourse in 1920.

www.marxists.de...

And Alfred Rosenberg have said many times he was for the return of the jews in Palestine.





[edit on 31-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 02:02 AM
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A catholic who kills is not a catholic? No, but they are certainly not acting within Catholic (Christian) principles.

The Antient Charges are foundational to Freemasonry. If the Old Prussian lodges were acting in contravention to the Charges, then they were behaving in an un-masonic manner, and according to un-masonic principles.

It's pretty simple, dude, as are masonic principles.

If the UGLE actually supported the Prussian Lodges' prejudicial selection based on religion, then they were in serious error, but I don't think you've demonstrated this at all.

As for saying that most of Hitler's influences originated from Freemasonry, well... all you've shown to demonstrate THAT piece of garbage is the one uncorroborated quote which has already been addressed.

It's bollocks, as anyone with a modicum of common sense would be able to ascertain, based on Hitler's attitude toward Freemasonry. Not "humanitarian" Freemasonry. His attitude toward Freemasonry in general. He didn't add any qualifiers about the origin of the lodge when he instigated his campaign of persecution.



posted on Aug, 31 2007 @ 02:24 AM
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Originally posted by Roark
A catholic who kills is not a catholic? No, but they are certainly not acting within Catholic (Christian) principles.

The Antient Charges are foundational to Freemasonry. If the Old Prussian lodges were acting in contravention to the Charges, then they were behaving in an un-masonic manner, and according to un-masonic principles.

It's pretty simple, dude, as are masonic principles.

If the UGLE actually supported the Prussian Lodges' prejudicial selection based on religion, then they were in serious error, but I don't think you've demonstrated this at all.

As for saying that most of Hitler's influences originated from Freemasonry, well... all you've shown to demonstrate THAT piece of garbage is the one uncorroborated quote which has already been addressed.

It's bollocks, as anyone with a modicum of common sense would be able to ascertain, based on Hitler's attitude toward Freemasonry. Not "humanitarian" Freemasonry. His attitude toward Freemasonry in general. He didn't add any qualifiers about the origin of the lodge when he instigated his campaign of persecution.


UGLE have supported the Old Prussian Grand Lodge.

In 1912, Lord Ampthill, pro Grand Master of the UGLE who was invited by the three Old Prussian Grand Lodge have said in a discourse, reported in Alpina :


... tous les Maçons anglais accepteront avec plaisir des relations plus étroites et plus fréquentes avec nos Frères de l’Allemagne puisque tous leurs principes sont absolument les nôtres, puisque rien dans leurs conceptions maçonniques n’est en conflit avec leurs devoirs sociaux, moraux et religieux, et puisque l’histoire de leurs Grandes Loges est intimement liée à celle de la Grande Loge d’Angleterre.[10]

… all the English Masons will accept with pleasure closer and more frequent relations with our Brothers of Germany since all their principles are absolutely ours, since nothing in their masonnic principles is in conflict with their social, moral and religious duties, and since the history of their Grand Lodge is closely related to that of the Grand Lodge of England.


www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

Lord Ampthill, pro Grand Master of the UGLE, have said he approved the religious duty of the Old Prussian's freemasonry, but it's not a proof the Old Prussian Grand Lodge was approved by the UGLE.

When in Germany, according to the freemason's rewrited history, someone talk about the judeo masonic conspiracy?


THE REVIVAL OF THE "JUDAEO-MASONIC CONSPIRACY" LEGEND
The revival of the "Judaeo-Masonic Conspiracy" legend in Germany in 1918 represents merely a single incident in the complex history of German anti-Semitic attitudes since the 1870s. Although the Jews had been finally emancipated in 1867 all branches of the public service, of which the most important were the army and the civil service, were virtually closed to them. They had been dominant in finance since the eighteenth century but now crowded into the professions, above all medicine and the law. They were also prominent in journalism, the ownership of theatres and academic callings. This phenomenon of "over-representation" in relatively few sectors of the middle-class social scene was one of the main causes of the growth of overt anti-Semitism during the last three decades of the nineteenth century. In the past it derived from religious prejudices but now had political, economic and racial connotations.


themasonictrowel.com...

But in fact, the Grand Land Lodge, one of the Biggest regular lodge of Germany published an article"« Diese 99 Prozent aller, die sich auf der Erde Frmrr. nennen, werden immer unsere Erzfeinde bleiben »1917), accussing their brothers of an internationalist conspiracy leaded by jews....

It's one example of the masonic influence on Hitler ideology.


[edit on 31-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by Kerosene
 


You make some very interesting points but you are allowing preconceptions and bias to direct how you interpret the information available to you. Sadly, I myself have found that there is very little infomation readily available. I have also found though that the Freemasons on this board are very helpful and will try to clarify any matters or point you in the right direction.

You will however learn nothing unless you have an open mind and realise that you have started with a misconception.

You have raised the most important point of all and what in my opinion is the main reason that the Freemasons were so rigourously pursued by the Nazis - the connections to Britain.

The Nazis changed the reasons for their persecution of the Freemasons, just as they changed their reasons for the persecution of the Jews. The Nazis were nothing if not inconsistent.



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 10:39 PM
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I personally think Hitler was persuing a New World Order but more in his favor. Prescott Bush helped the Nazis, Carl Roves father was a Nazi, and even Arnold Schwarztneggers father was a Nazi. Does anybody see an unsettling trend occuring?


Theres no question about it, regarding Bush & the NWO. Coming forward clean to the public favoring it in speeches. It doesnt get any better.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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Maybe this thread points to Hitlers'
biggest mistake,
attacking the Masons,( albeit the lower echelons of the order of Masons?)
while getting Illuminati money from the grand-elder Bush for Hitlers' war effort.
Surely someone in Hitlers organisation
should have made the connection!
Was Hitlers' crusade against the jews also only meant
for those of the "lower" order of Jews,
(ie,non-Zionists/Illuminati)? probably...get the picture?



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