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Adolf Hitler And The Freemasons

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posted on Jun, 3 2007 @ 01:59 AM
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Thule Free masonry Hitler?




Occult and mystical influences

Glauer was initially interested in Theosophy and Freemasonry. He is believed to have been initiated into an irregular lodge of the Rite of Memphis under the Grand Orient of France in 1901.

In Turkey, he became interested in numerology, kabbalah and Sufism, especially the Sufism of the untypical Bektashi order. He may well have converted to Islam, although the evidence (from his own semi-autobiographical writings) is unclear on this point. It should also be known that at that time many such Bektashi orders were attended by the Donmeh groups who were secret disciples of Shabtai Tzvi. In his autobiographical novel Der Talisman des Rosenkreuzers (The Rosicrucian Talisman), Sebottendorff distinguishes between Sufi-influenced Turkish Masonry and conventional Masonry.

By about 1912 he became convinced that he had discovered what he called "the key to spiritual realization", described by a later historian as "a set of numerological meditation exercises that bear little resemblance to either Sufism or Masonry" (Sedgwick 2004: 66).

[edit] Involvement with the Thule Society

By 1916, Sebottendorff had attracted only one follower. In that year, however, he came into contact with the Germanenorden, and was subsequently appointed the Ordensmeister (local group leader) for the Bavaria division of the schismatic Germanenorden Walvater of the Holy Grail. Settling in Munich, he established the Thule Society, which became increasingly political, and in 1918 established a political party, the German Workers' Party. This party was joined in 1919 by Adolf Hitler, who transformed it into the National Socialist German Workers' Party or Nazi Party.

By then, however, Sebottendorff had left the Thule Society and Bavaria, having been accused of negligence in allegedly allowing the names of several key Thule Society members to fall into the hands of the government of the short-lived Bavarian Soviet Republic, resulting in the execution of seven members after the attack on the Munich government in April 1919, an accusation that he never denied. Sebottendorff fled Germany for Switzerland and then Turkey.


en.wikipedia.org...

But it's meanless in comparison with the link of the old prussian lodge(regular), symbolic lodge and Hitler.

[edit on 3-6-2007 by Kerosene]




posted on Jun, 3 2007 @ 02:01 PM
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Some of you are using speculation as "proof" that Hitler was a freemason. It is obvious by Hitler's attitude and comments toward freemasonry thhat he was anything but a freemason. End o' story.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by SpeakerofTruth
 


But the Hitler was a creature of the Prussian's Grand Lodges, the regular freemasonry of Germany, don't tell me you don't know that?

The regular lodge of Germany(more than 90% of Germany's freemason) was deeply racist, antisemite, agains'nt the universalism of the irregular lodge and was supporter of the nazi ideology even before the rise of Hitler.

And the lodge was a great source of inspiration for Hitler.

The abolition of freemasonry in Germany was purely cosmetic, in fact, the masons join the nazi party and they were in control of it. And when the nazi party was dead, they goes back to their lodge.

Funny to see how masons forget this. Their myths of persecution is laughable, the only masons who were persecuted was in the irregular lodge who accept jew in their rank and they were persecuted by theirs brothers. It's easy to rewrite history, it happen often.


[edit on 27-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Kerosene


But the Hitler was a creature of the Prussian's Grand Lodges, the regular freemasonry of Germany, don't tell me you don't know that?


Hitler had absolutely no connection to any Masonic Lodge in Germany, Prussian or otherwise. Zilch.


The regular lodge of Germany(more than 90% of Germany's freemason) was deeply racist, antisemite, agains'nt the universalism of the irregular lodge and was supporter of the nazi ideology even before the rise of Hitler.


Why? Because you say so?

In reality, nothing you wrote above is true. The regular Grand Lodge was most certainly not racist or anti-Semitic, and had been admitting Jews since it was founded. This was exactly why Hitler condemned Masonry in "Mein Kampf".


And the lodge was a great source of inspiration for Hitler.


Hitler wrote that the Masonic Lodges were products of a "Zionist-Communist conspiracy", and must be eradicated. You call that "inspiration"?

Gimme a break.


The abolition of freemasonry in Germany was purely cosmetic, in fact, the masons join the nazi party and they were in control of it. And when the nazi party was dead, they goes back to their lodge.


Tell that to the Masons and their families who suffered under the various fascist regimes. Chances are, you'll walk away with a black eye and a broken nose.

Newspaper article from 1941 on the Nazi persecution of Freemasons.

The Nazis: Fathers of Modern Anti-Masonry

Freemasonry Under Nazism from the Holocaust Memorial Website



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
I have nothing at all against Jews or any group for that matter. BUT I do have a problem with any one people being 'chosen.'


"Chosen", from an Orthodox Jewish perspective, simply means that the Jewish people were "chosen" by God to follow ALL 613 commandments as laid out in the Torah. It has nothing to do with being "superior". Indeed, a non-Jew can be righteous without having to follow these laws, from a Jewish perspective.

But, back to the topic, sort of... I find it interesting that nearly every anti-Mason is also anti-Jewish (I hate the term "anti-semitic"). Did this exist before Hitler? Probably not, at least not to the degree that it exists now.

For the record, as both a Jew and a Mason, I'm still waiting for my membership card in the global conspiracy!



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 01:29 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


did you know french language, dude?

I hope so, here's the word of one of your brother who take a look in the german F-M archive.

Here's the introduction in french




Vous savez que le texte des Constitutions, approuvé par la Grande Loge de Londres en 1723, interdisait que des discussions religieuses ou politiques passent le seuil de la loge. Or, au 20e siècle, ces deux thèmes sont au coeur de la vie de la Franc-Maçonnerie allemande, sujet difficile et brûlant dont on commence à peine à écrire l’histoire.

Si cette histoire est encore dans son enfance, c’est que les Francs-Maçons allemands furent longtemps les seuls à l’écrire, c’est-à-dire à choisir d’abord de la passer sous silence pour la transformer ensuite en épopée. De là naquirent des légendes qui vous sont peut-être familières, une persécution générale et indifférenciée des Maçons allemands, leur résistance, leur ‘camouflage’ - en allemand Tarnung -, et la renaissance d’une Maçonnerie allemande épurée en 1945.

La réalité fut différente. Non seulement la récente ouverture au domaine public des archives du Berlin Document Center a confirmé ou révélé que plusieurs membres du parti nazi avaient accédé aux plus hauts postes de responsabilité de la Maçonnerie allemande, une fois la seconde Guerre Mondiale terminée, mais surtout, la lecture des documents maçonniques des années 1920 et 1930 est accablante.

Il ne fait pas de doute que la majorité des obédiences allemandes a tenté de travailler et de s’associer avec le nazisme avant même l’arrivée d’Hitler au pouvoir. Elle a salué son avènement en soulignant que les thèses du nazisme coïncidaient avec les principes qu’elle se glorifiait de défendre.

Face à cette majorité, une fraction infime - un millier de Maçons, moins d’un pour cent - a organisé en 1930 une nouvelle Grande Loge, la Grande Loge Symbolique, et s’est opposée au nazisme, à sa politique nationaliste, à ses thèses racistes et antisémites. A l’honneur de cette opposition minoritaire, disons très fort qu’elle s’est manifestée de la manière la plus courageuse par la parole et par l’écrit jusqu’en mars 1933, date à laquelle elle décida librement de se mettre en sommeil.

Mais - et c’est bien là où le bât blesse un Maçon d’aujourd’hui - cette Grande Loge Symbolique était la seule Grande Loge allemande à ne pas être considérée régulière, par la Franc-Maçonnerie allemande toutes tendances confondues, bien sûr, mais aussi par les Francs-Maçonneries anglaise et américaine.

Pour tenter de comprendre comment tout cela a pu arriver, il est nécessaire de jeter un coup d’oeil en arrière et d’établir brièvement la généalogie des obédiences allemandes existant au début du 20e siècle.


www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

If you want a translation ask.

It's a fact dude, the regular lodge of germany was antisemite and deeply opposed to their brother who was universalist and initiate jews, like Hitler.

Freemasonry make good man better is pure bull#.

Your Brother Bernhein say something like that, the persecution of the masons under Hitler is a myth, there's no doubt most of all masons try to identify themselves with nazi party, even before the coming of Hitler, the one who persecuted was the minority, the one who initiate jews.




[edit on 27-8-2007 by Kerosene]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by Kerosene
reply to post by Masonic Light
 


did you know french language, dude?

I hope so, here's the word of one of your brother who take a look in the german F-M archive.


The articles on that particular site are available in English as well:
www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

There seems to be some truth to your argument, assuming this is correct:
www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

I respect Masonic Light's opinion; what do you make of these articles?



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by JustMe74
 


the english version of these article is different and incomplete.

There's a lot more information in the article in french.

The only mason who was persecuted was the one from the lodge who initiate jews and it was the minority and the irregular mason.

Hitler was a "worshipper" of Frederick the great, Frederick II of Prussia, the father of prussian's branch of regular freemasonry.

The prussian freemasonry was the keeper of the old german mythology... wich was used by Hitler and many others during the nazi was in power.



posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Kerosene
But the Hitler was a creature of the Prussian's Grand Lodges, the regular freemasonry of Germany, don't tell me you don't know that?


Can you demonstrate this AT ALL?

As far as I can tell, the only way in which Hitler was in any way related to Freemasonry is through a completely uncorroborated anecdote by Hermann Rauschning that Hitler took inspiration from Freemasonry's hierarchical structure and initiatory process in creating his own.

Which... even if it's true... means absolutely nothing.

The rallying cry for Kristallnacht was "Death to the Jews and the Freemasons",

NOT

"Death to the Jews and the minority humanitarian Freemasons, but tolerance for the old Prussian Freemasons".




posted on Aug, 27 2007 @ 11:52 PM
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Oh, sorry, I forgot, you ask me what I think about the masonic light's text.

They are not completly accurate, maybe at 90%.

But they suppress something, the regular freemasonry involvement in this anti-jewish freemasonry campain.

They were the first one who accuse their irregular brothers of global jewish conspiracies.

It mean they are the creator of the modern anti-freemasonry, not the nazi.



[edit on 27-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by Roark
 


Hitler praising Freemasonry.




All the supposed abominations, the skeletons and death's head, the coffins and the mysteries, are mere bogeys for children. But there is one dangerous element and that is the element I have copied from them. They form a sort of priestly nobility. They have developed and esoteric doctrine more merely formulated, but imparted through the symbols and mysteries in degrees of initiation. The hierarchical organization and the initiation through symbolic rites, that is to say, without bothering the brain by working on the imagination through magic and the symbols of a cult, all this has a dangerous element, and the element I have taken over. Don't you see that our party must be of this character...? An Order, the hierarchial Order of a secular priesthood."


But it's not what I'm talking about, I am not telling the structure of the nazi was based on the structure of freemasonry, I'm saying many Hitler's Ideas and Ideology came from the prussian freemasonry.

The anti-semitism was praised by them, many mason from the regular lodge was talking about a jewish conspiracy, Churchill and Ford as example, I will not be surprised if we know one day a freemason was the author of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Hitler was raise in this antisemitism and he have read those papers. The concept of the aryan race was taken from many occult society and many have a link with freemasonry, Jules Boucher says Helena Petrovna Blavatsky was one of the first 33 rd degrees sister, with annie Beasant who was two theosophist who talk about the aryan race myth


Some mason says it's not true, she was not initiated, but Boucher a renown freemason, especially for is La symbolique de la Franc-Maconnerie say so.



The page posted above was taken from Le dictionnaire illustré de la Franc-Maçonnerie.



If Blavatsky, as some say, was not initiated, Henry Steel Olcott a cofounder of The Theosophical Society was a brother.

And what about Rudolf von Sebottendorf, who was a freemason and founder of the Thule Society who was a great inspiration for Hitler.

I can continue like this for a while.


[edit on 28-8-2007 by Kerosene]

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by JustMe74


I respect Masonic Light's opinion; what do you make of these articles?


the articles themselves state that Freemasonry and Freemasons were persecuted by the Nazis, and to escape persecution, it was necesssary that Masons renounce freemasonry.

Some of the seceding Masons formed the organization known as "The Christian Order of Frederick the Great", based on several Nazi and anti-Masonic myths. Namely, that Frederick became a Christian (he did not), that he was anti-Semitic (he was not), and that he eventually renounced Freemasonry (he never did). The Christian Order of Frederick the Great was, in a sense, the Nazi militant anti-Masonic wing, although they too were eventually suppressed.

A browse through the links I provided in my last post shed additional information on the subject (most are from non-Masonic educational websites).

Also, the Center For Holocaust and Genocide Studies has the infamous Nazi Anti-Masonic Exhibit online here.

The Nazi Party is a frightening example of what happens when anti-Masons are running the show.



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 10:46 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


more than 70%(the majority and regular one) of the freemasons was in favor of nazism, even before Hitler. Almost everything who influence Hitler came from freemasonry, it's not some masons who join the party and Hitler, it's the great majority. Only the one's from "humanitarian" freemasonsry and the symbolic lodge don't join the nazi party.



And the members of the regular Old Prussian Lodge was deeply opposes to theirs humanitarian brothers, they call this branch of freemasonry, the international freemasonsry.

Those guys were anti-semite and where praising the aryan race and the pan-germanism BEFORE Hitler. And when the Nazi was in power, they join the Nazi Party sayin loudly that the nazi ideology is in direct line with the one of the Old Prussian's Lodge. And when the Nazi party crumbled, they go in back in lodge at key position. Most of the keymembers of the german freemasonry in 1945 was ex Nazi.





[edit on 28-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Kerosene
I will not be surprised if we know one day a freemason was the author of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.


You do know that The "Protocols" are a hoax, right?



Serge Nilus, a little-known Czarist official in Moscow, edited several editions of the Protocols, each with a different account of how he discovered the document. In his 1911 edition Nilus claimed that his source had stolen the document from (a non-existent) Zionist headquarters in France. Other "editors" of the Protocols maintained that the document was read at the First Zionist Congress held in 1897 in Basel, Switzerland.
Note: According to reputable scholars, including Prof. Norman Cohn in his noted book, Warrant for Genocide, the world-control myth was actually lifted from a 19th century French political satire in which the alleged plotters weren’t even Jewish.

From: www.adl.org...

ddickerson.igc.org...

www.straightdope.com...

All that is from just a few minutes of searching. This is not a news flash; "The Protocols" were counterfeit, and many, many an innocent Jew paid the ultimate price for it.

Interesting discussion, I just hope you are not laboring under the assumption that the Protocols are the real deal.

I had heard before that Hitler was interested in occult sciences, but not from the perspective of a hopeful initiate; I think he saw it as a tool, or a means to an end. Admittedly I don't know a whole lot about it, but I too respect ML's opinion and if he says it's BS, there's a 99.999999% probablility that it is, in reality, BS.



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by Kerosene
And the members of the regular Old Prussian Lodge was deeply opposes to theirs humanitarian brothers, they call this branch of freemasonry, the international freemasonsry.

This is not entirely, if at all, true. The Old Prussians did not exclude Jews altogether until it became law for them to do so. Jews were able to join the Old Prussian Lodges but they could not proceed beyond a certain point because their was a declaration to uphold Christianity - which I believe is still presnt in some rites/degrees (but I am no expert and hopefully a more learned member will clarify that for me). Right up until 1933 both Humanitarian and Old Prussians would entertain each other, this was extended to Jewish brothers. There were earlier exclusions but this had more to do with the lateness with which Germany emacipated the Jews than outright anti-semitism.


Originally posted by Kerosene
Those guys were anti-semite and where praising the aryan race and the pan-germanism BEFORE Hitler. And when the Nazi was in power, they join the Nazi Party sayin loudly that the nazi ideology is in direct line with the one of the Old Prussian's Lodge. And when the Nazi party crumbled, they go in back in lodge at key position. Most of the keymembers of the german freemasonry in 1945 was ex Nazi.


You may have the Old Prussians mixed up with the actual Prussians. Though I do not doubt that some of the Old Prussian Freemasons may have joined the Nazi Party they were not a 'Nazi' organisation, nor were they devotely Nationalistic or anti-semitic. Unlike the Prussians, who by and large were defined by those two terms. The Old Prussians gained their name from the indigenous tribes of East Prussia, who were completely annihilated by the dynastic descendants of the Franks, who in term ruled all of western Europe.

It should be noted that not all Nazi Party members committed atrocities and there were plenty of men (and women) who were effectively blameless of any part of the racial policy. Why should they not resume their lives after the war? On the other hand you were forbidden to join the SS if you had joined the Freemasons prior to January 1933 (or 34 not sure off the top of my head). The SS was no place for a man of morals.

Members of the Wehrmacht were Freemasons, though I do not have specific names there was significant discord amongst the miltary about the restrictions put on membership which confirm this. Again the Wehrmacht as a rule did what any army does, it did not generally participate in atrocities, though they were accompanied in the East by SS units that facilitated this purpose. If you were to study the Generals you would be hard pressed to find a more upright bunch (though as in anything there are exceptions).

The Old Prussians did what they could to preserve their fraternity, but this failed. They changed their name, they changed their practices, they stopped jews from visiting, they stops inter-British relations - all to no avail. If they really had so much power and influence within Germany why go to all the effort? If they were already anti-semite nationalists why would Himmler and the Gestapo go to so much trouble to obtain membership rolls and identify all members?



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by Kerosene
Hitler praising Freemasonry.



All the supposed abominations, the skeletons and death's head, the coffins and the mysteries, are mere bogeys for children. But there is one dangerous element and that is the element I have copied from them. They form a sort of priestly nobility. They have developed and esoteric doctrine more merely formulated, but imparted through the symbols and mysteries in degrees of initiation. The hierarchical organization and the initiation through symbolic rites, that is to say, without bothering the brain by working on the imagination through magic and the symbols of a cult, all this has a dangerous element, and the element I have taken over. Don't you see that our party must be of this character...? An Order, the hierarchial Order of a secular priesthood."



Dude, you're not paying attention. I addressed this before you even posted it. It's old, it's uncorroborated, and it's commonly used by people who are desperate to try and prove that Hitler's view of, and connection to, Freemasonry was something other than the hatred he so clearly showed through his commands and edicts.


Originally posted by Roark
As far as I can tell, the only way in which Hitler was in any way related to Freemasonry is through a completely uncorroborated anecdote by Hermann Rauschning that Hitler took inspiration from Freemasonry's hierarchical structure and initiatory process in creating his own.


Even if it's an accurate quote specifically about Freemasonry, it doesn't demonstrate that Hitler was a "creature" of Freemasonry. The notion is pretty absurd when you consider everything else.

The only connection which can be proven is that he lumped Freemasons in with the Jews as targets of his vitriol and persecution.

I'm not sure why you're so desperate to draw a contrary link. Is it foundational to some other conclusion you've drawn about this stuff?



posted on Aug, 28 2007 @ 11:56 PM
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reply to post by The Axeman
 


reply to post by The Axeman
 


Doesn't mather if it's was a hoax or not, my point is simple, Hitler live in a era in wich anti-semitism was praised... And many mason was involve in that propaganda and as I says before, I will not be surprise if one day we know the real authors was fremasons.

Yeah they say the protocols was a hoax, but in fact, the only hoax is about the author and the identity of the conspirators, but every single point in that document is happening.

Some jews are involved, but it's not a jewish plan.

Masonic Light is lost far away in the field, he is a parrot of the mason's myth of persecution.

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 12:05 AM
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Why do men feel the need to create or join a secret society? This has been something I just do not understand. Is it a way to have a family of brothers that you can confide in? Like the Heman club in the little rascals.



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 12:36 AM
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reply to post by KilgoreTrout
 





This is not entirely, if at all, true. The Old Prussians did not exclude Jews altogether until it became law for them to do so. Jews were able to join the Old Prussian Lodges but they could not proceed beyond a certain point because their was a declaration to uphold Christianity - which I believe is still presnt in some rites/degrees (but I am no expert and hopefully a more learned member will clarify that for me). Right up until 1933 both Humanitarian and Old Prussians would entertain each other, this was extended to Jewish brothers. There were earlier exclusions but this had more to do with the lateness with which Germany emacipated the Jews than outright anti-semitism.


Wrong, Wrong and Wrong. Jews were NEVER initiated in a Old Prussian Lodge, NEVER.



Ant the old prussian brothers were deeply antisemite and opposed to theirs humanitarian brothers.

Translation of a french text written by one of your bro.


The First World War puts an end to this period of reconciliation. The Grand Lodge Royal York zur Freundschaft cuts off Royal York from its title, the Alliance of the Large German Lodge breaks its relationships with Freemasonries of the Alliance and even with Swiss Freemasonry, the United Grand Lodge of England decides stop the admission of freemason visitors like the German, Austrian, Hungarian Freemasons and Turkish, the decision will be cancelled only in 1928. [13] In a article published in 1917, the Grand National Lodge attribute the responsibility for the war to the “international Freemasonry” and concludes: “99% of those which are named Francs-Maçons on the ground will remain always our hereditary enemies”. [14]


www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

The french quote is right under 1914-1930 in the text


You may have the Old Prussians mixed up with the actual Prussians. Though I do not doubt that some of the Old Prussian Freemasons may have joined the Nazi Party they were not a 'Nazi' organisation, nor were they devotely Nationalistic or anti-semitic. Unlike the Prussians, who by and large were defined by those two terms. The Old Prussians gained their name from the indigenous tribes of East Prussia, who were completely annihilated by the dynastic descendants of the Franks, who in term ruled all of western Europe.


Wrong again, the Old Prussian brothers hate their international brothers and they were praising german patriotism and they were opposed to fraternisation of the nation in the world


The Grand Lodge zur Freundschaft modifies its Constitution in 1923: theirs goals are now defined as being “waking up, nourishing and to propagate the principles of Christendom and those of the idealism, the religiosity, manners, the German sense of fraternity and patriotism. ” One of its Lodge of Regensburg adopts masonnic swastika as symbol in September 1924. The same year, the three Grand Prussian Lodge adopt a hostile Joint Declaration to the Grand Lodge of Vienna, treated them of “conviced pacifist”.


www.freemasons-freemasonry.com...

And finally, every actions against freemasonry made by Hitler and his follower was done against the humanitarian freemason. The members of the Old Prussian Lodge join the Nazi Party at key place, and when the party crumbled, they goes back to their lodge, at key place too.





[edit on 29-8-2007 by Kerosene]



posted on Aug, 29 2007 @ 12:37 AM
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The Nazis used triangular badges or patches to identify prisoners in the concentration camps. Different colored patches represented different groups. The colors and their meanings were:

Yellow Jew
A chart of prisoner markings.
— KZ Gedenkstaette Dachau

Brown Gypsy
Violet Jehovah's Witness
Pink Homosexual
Green Habitual criminal
Red Political prisoner
Black Asocial
Blue Imigrant


I read somewhere that the Freemasons they executed were under the category "Political prisoner."


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