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Russia didn't give downed jet's flight plan to U.S.: U.S. officials

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posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




It would not surprise me if the airspace violation was intentional by russia to try and add insult to injury. Attacking non isis forces while violating turkish airspace to do so.


It wouldn't surprise me if you wouldn't be surprised about that either.

Backing Erdogans support for the Daesh now? Non-Isis forces? You mean the heroes that killed the pilot whilst he was parachuting to the ground?

Right, sure. You've got it all figured out.



Secondly you accept it all the time whenever russia talks about "sources" they never name.


Always. Except that I never saw Mastro doing that, his contributions are usually highly intelligent. Dick Cheney, is that you?

Now obey a nice day and keep your Straw-Man Bollocks coming! Kinda entertaining in a shilly way.




posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 10:11 AM
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The jet was in Syria when it was shot down, and the only official statement made by US officials is that the heat signature proves the jet was in Syria.

As far as the Turkmen go, they were part of Bilal Erdogan's scheme of buying ISIS oil and smuggling it into Turkey. They are the middle men dealing with ISIS. If they aid and abet ISIS in their oil operations then that makes them fair targets. As of right now, Turkey is backing ISIS by allowing ISIS to derive revenue from this illegal oil trade between the son of their president.

Meet The Man Who Funds ISIS: Bilal Erdogan, The Son Of Turkey's President

ISIS Oil Trade Full Frontal: "Raqqa's Rockefellers", Bilal Erdogan, KRG Crude, And The Israel Connection

Erdogan’s son Bilal Erdoğan smuggler of illegal #ISIS’s oil

Erdogan’s Russian Roulette–Was It Only About Oily Revenge?

As long as the Turkmen continue to provide safe passage and cover for those ISIS fuel convoys, that makes them fair game.

The Warm Relationship Between Turkey and ISIS (Confirmed Facts)

From the first days of the Syrian crisis, Turkey was the main gate to send fighters and weapons to Syria. The Turkish government has been consistent in pursuing its own agenda, which started with supporting the Islamic armed groups against the Syrian government. That includes al-Qaeda’s affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra, which shares many of its aspirations for a fundamentalist caliphate with ISIS.

Previously, Turkey claimed to be the defender of the Syrian people and their dreams, but held a rather more worrisome agenda. Here are some facts to confirm — with no doubt — that ISIS is a PARTNER (not enemy) to Turkey, which means of course that fighting the terrorist group is not really on Turkey’s agenda.


BTW, with all this talk about "rights to protect their sovereign airspace, Turkey violated Greek airspace thousands of times. No one flipped their lid and started shooting down Turkey's jets. Turkey Violated Greek Airspace 2,244 Times in 2014; Erdogan’s Son, ISIS Oil Smuggler

Turkish claims that the downed Russian Su-24 jet “violated” its airspace have sparked outrage among Greeks, who took to social media to say it is a clear-cut case of double standards as Turkish jets breached Greek airspace 2,244 times in 2014 alone.

They wondered what would happen if Greece had authorized engagement of Turkish aircraft, which breach the country’s borders on a regular basis.


The real fact of the matter is, is that Turkey, specifically President Erdogan and his son Bilal, chose to get in bed with ISIS, are profiting from their oil, and are using this "war on terror" as an excuse to go after a long-standing enemy (Assad) and grab territory. Turkey chose to magnify the brief (if any) incursion into it's airspace, and chose to shoot down a Russian jet not in Turkey but in Syria where Russia had a standing agreement with the US coalition to conduct mutual bombing sorties. If you are upset about the fact Turkmen were bombed then perhaps those Turkmen should have renounced their ties to ISIS. Russia has done more to set ISIS back than the US coalition has ever done, either we are grossly incompetent or we're only pretending to be fighting ISIS.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Greece deals with Turkey, and vice versa, in their own ways. It still doesnt negate the fact russia violated turkish airspace - numerous times since they deployed to Syria. They just violated Israeli airspace as well.

Feel free to link us to your source about the the blooms being in Syrian airspace.


edit on 29-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 10:48 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Heat signature was in Syria;

'US believes Russian jet was in Syrian airspace when Turkey shot it down'

Official tells Reuters conclusion is based on "heat signature of jet."


Russian jet hit inside Syria after incursion into Turkey: U.S. official



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Violations of airspace happen every day, what doesn't happen often is the downing of a big trading partner targeting another country posing no threat to the country in question.
Guess what Israel said about Russian "invasion"?



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 10:54 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




It still doesnt negate the fact russia violated turkish airspace


After reading the links provided you could easily concede, that Turkey is de facto supporting ISIS. Which brings up the question, if we actually talk about ISIS's airforce with regards to Turkish jets.

And in case you missed it: Greece airspace violations relativize any Turkish allegation instantly. Stones and glasshouse.
Instead, you chose to argue semantics and procedures. How lovely!

Feel free to source the violation of Israeli airspace and don't forget to add their recent violations of Syrian airspace as well. Just to be fair. No. Wait! Forget about it, deconstructing your disinfo is our part.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:26 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Sorry, I do not believe a dam thing that comes out of the Obama administration mouths! Putin has been shown over and over to be NOT LYING. Turkey and the U.S. have been supporting ISIS and that is a FACT. Germany is behind all of the mess in Ukraine and pushing the U.S. with Obama's love of the Muslim Brotherhood to help Turkey unite the Arabs.

Putin could have steam rolled Ukraine, did he?? Nope!



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:34 AM
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originally posted by: Mastronaut
a reply to: Xcathdra

Violations of airspace happen every day, what doesn't happen often is the downing of a big trading partner targeting another country posing no threat to the country in question.
Guess what Israel said about Russian "invasion"?


And yet the Anti-Israel crowd here will tell you that Israel is supporting ISIS, LMAO!!!! Israel is guilty of making the Sun hot as well lol.

They dam sure would not help Russia bomb the piss out of ISIS if they had anything to do with them. It baffles me why anyone would think Israel would support Assad being removed when he is weak, lets Christians live in his country and knows Israel can whoop him anytime so he leaves Israel alone, that would not be the case if some whack job Islamic came to power.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

It has been linked in another thread.

Syria shot down a turkish aircraft that violated its airspace. Whats ironic is in those ATS threads people bitching about Turkey shooting down a russian aircraft fully supported Syria for shooting down tthe turkish aircraft. They ignored the fact the violation was the same distance as the russian violation. Its one of maany reasons those posters arent' credible in these threads.

Israel says Russian jet violated airspace recently by accident

As I said Russia needs to buy some maps.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: Patriotsrevenge

Yeah but Putin has been shown to be lying. In Ukraine, in Syria as well as what ever country russia has issues with at any particular moment.

www.stopfake.org



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: Mastronaut

and yet its not true. If it were Israel would have never contacted Russia to tell them to get their aircraft out of Israeli airspace.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

Greece deals with Turkey, and vice versa, in their own ways. It still doesnt negate the fact russia violated turkish airspace - numerous times since they deployed to Syria. They just violated Israeli airspace as well.

Feel free to link us to your source about the the blooms being in Syrian airspace.



I saw that apparently Russian pilots need gps badly. They violate air space of Israel nut to mention many EU members. Guess Russian pilots have no clue where they are at. People want to say it's on purpose I don't think it is. I think it's just a lack of situational awareness. They don't intend to violate say the UK airspace they are supposed to stay in international airspace. Yet they often stray to far this means that Russia needs to reconsider their policy if sending pilots to border areas they need buffers to make sure their pilots don't stray into other countries. They are very lucky the Israelis decided not to destroy the Russian jet and instead escourt it away.
edit on 11/29/15 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Mastronaut

Because they are not authorized to speak to the media. The US never got the info Russia is claiming. Secondly Did the russian flight plan show the airspace violation?


You do know the didn't? Didn't you just implied that those are classified informations and that you know what they are? What's your source?



The moral of the story is russia was warned numerous times not to violate turkish airspace and they did. Turkey told them they would shoot down any aircraft violating its airspace and they did.


The moral of the story is that Turkey is the ISIS command center.


It would not surprise me if the airspace violation was intentional by russia to try and add insult to injury. Attacking non isis forces while violating turkish airspace to do so.


Where's written that Putin HAS TO bomb only ISIS? I think that shooting a parachuted pilot and downing a rescue mission are war crimes and terrorist act. If anything this story told us who are these rebels, I don't know how you can live with supporting them.


It doesnt cast doubt. Secondly you accept it all the time whenever russia talks about "sources" they never name.


Already at ad-hominem attacks? That's what YOU think and please quote me doing so. The anonymous officials always come from the USA, but they are trusted sources only if they support the US narrative? I always take anon sourced news with a grain of salt regardless of the side. You instead take all news of a side as true regardless of the credibility.
While you will not find a word to support your claims on me, I can spend the rest of the week compiling quote from you doing it.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:11 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

So show me how often trade partners for significant amounts of billions per year shoot down each other plane over such violations. Turkey violated Greece' airspace 2000 times just this year and Erdogan cried wolf the day an F4 was downed INSIDE syrian territory while being DEFINETLY A THREAT to syrian ground and air space.
Double standard for this incident 'cause of ruskies?

Israel, which you know, USS Liberty, struck a deal to avoid problems with Russians since they started the bombing campaign. They want Assad dead at all costs. What did Turkey do? Change the rule of engagement to harser ones over alleged invasions of the buffer zone. They had to wait for a 17s violation to shoot those jet down. It was planned and the narrative of 5 minutes warning is bull#.

Stop spreading false propaganda, it's ridiculous for anyone on this forum to think that you believe what you say.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:12 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Syria shot down a turkish aircraft that violated its airspace.


Did the Syrians equally violate Turkish airspace to do so? Nope? They downed that plane over Syria?



Its one of maany reasons those posters arent' credible in these threads.


Funny that you say that.

Credibility is something you've lost ages ago, sorry to break that for you. Now keep spamming the same old same old in every fricken thread. Just to make sure our fellow ATSliens gobble up your disinfo, ya know...

Israeli fighter jets violate Lebanese airspace two days after launching air strikes on targets inside Syrian territory

Drinking wine while preaching water. Deny ignorance much, do we?



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:17 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Just as Turkey fired on the russian plane in its airspace.

What does your Israel links have to do with russia?
edit on 29-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:33 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Just as Turkey fired on the russian plane in its airspace.


The opposite is true, yet you 'somehow' managed to ignore this fun fact as well. So... you don't care what people post in your thread as long as it doesn't back up your s(h)illy claims?

Care to refute said article?



What does your Israel links have to do with russia?


It has something to do with Syria and alleged airspace violations, doesn't it? Ya know... deconstructing your desinfo and all that. It's been a pleasure, quite entertaining thread after all!



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Turkey is in a rough situation kurdish rebels on their border is is in Iraq and syria. Turkey doesn't support Isis however they don't actively work against them either. It's no secret if people want to join us is they fly in to turkey. Simple reason they have no border security and that is the problem. Also the reason they don't attack isis. They know there is no way they could stop an isis terror campaign in turkey.

So they allow traders to operate across borders bringing in oil for example. Turkey covers there butt by not directly dealing with isis. Iran is doing the same thing they buy oil from traders not asking where it came from for the same reasons. Reality is its no secret support for isis regularly crosses the Turkish border. Is it state sanctioned no however they are doing nothing to stop it either for the above mentioned reason. They need their tourist industry and Isis could easily destroy it.

Now as far as Russia attacking the kurds of course Turkey loves that they are a bigger threat to Turkey then Isis. These attacks on Turkey by Russian media is nothing more then to cover up their attacks on groups like ppk instead of isis. Russia isn't attacking Isis it's beneficial for them to remain helps assaad since they are fighting other rebel groups. If isis is removed the other groups can move all their forces against him.



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 12:57 PM
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a reply to: PublicOpinion

Sure - The plane was hit when it crossed back into Syrian airspace. The US has stated that already, also noting the 30 second gap from when Turkey fired the missile in their airspace, to impact in Syrian airspace.

Itentionally distorting what the article says doesnt help your position and only reaffirms the length some are willing to go to defend Russia.

First paragraph -

WASHINGTON - The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a US official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

The official said that assessment was based on detection of the heat signature of the jet.


The plane was fired at while in Turkish airspace.

And russia violated israeli airspace, which was my point. If Lebanon wants to down an Israeli warplane, or Syria, then let them. I dont know why you think the rules would be different. A problem would be what Russia did. Shooting down a Ukrainian fighterjet while it was inside Ukrainian territory by a Russian jet from Russian territory without any airspace violations by ukraine. I think Russia did it to protect Russian forces fighting in E. Ukraine...


Ironic.
edit on 29-11-2015 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2015 @ 01:04 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

wasting precious time.

You know that they entered Syrian airspace and fired their missiles before the Russian entered their sacred realm of Erdogenesis, do you?

 

a reply to: dragonridr




Turkey is in a rough situation *snip*


Yes they are.



Have some fun with Erdogan, father of all trades (with ISIS).
Screw the spin, nobody on Ceres cares anymore. Do they?



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