Russia didn't give downed jet's flight plan to U.S.: U.S. officials

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: markosity1973

Its been around since WWII. Its also how countries were created, including the US and Russia. Andas much as you are trying its not splitting hairs. Blaming nato makes as much sense as blaming brics or the eei.

You've got members of NATO involved, not all of NATO in Syria. Turkey is NATO, America is NATO., Trying to say that said NATO alliance is not influencing their decision making is a little naive perhaps don't you think?

I also blamed NATO for Libya. NATO took the leading role in causing the richest country in Africa to fall into chaos. Nobody from NATO even gives a crap. Watch this italian lady below present some truth about NATO and the refugee crisis their actions have caused.

Lucky for America it is not within walking distance from the places it keeps raping and pillaging I guess.

a reply to: markosity1973

NATO is not involved in Syria. Using your logic the UN is responsible for the Syrian government murdering its citizens because Syria is a UN member. No amount of spin, falsehoods, distractions by invoking Libya (which was UN authorized) or wishful thinking can dispute the fact NATO is not involved in Syria.

Give it up.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Getting angry at me does not make my view incorrect. And, no your Syria UN argument does not undermine what I am saying.

Think for yourself and acknowledge the truth of the war crimes being committed in the name of things like 'regime change' and bringing 'democracy' to people. The USA and it's allies answer to nobody.

The UN is just a sham organization that the USA hijacks to push it's own agenda. NATO by extension is it's Nazi-esque military arm.

originally posted by: tom.farnhill
a reply to: Xcathdra

i think that these days we can not believe any statement that comes from the US war machine

They are only slightly more reliable than Putin.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Looks like putin once again got caught lying...

Yes, someone's lying, but why does it automatically have to be Putin?

Because Putin has made many accusations in this ordeal, and all of them have been lies. So if he is 5 for 5 on lies, why believe the 6th thing?

a reply to: markosity1973

Im not angry...

The comparison using your logic stands. Trying to ignore it wont make the fact your wrong about NATO go away.

The only ones denying war crimes is russia and pro russians on this site.

The un is a sham that russia is a member of with a veto. Like your nato argument your un argument is also a fail unless your saying Russia answers to the us.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: markosity1973

Im not angry...

The comparison using your logic stands. Trying to ignore it wont make the fact your wrong about NATO go away.

The only ones denying war crimes is russia and pro russians on this site.

The un is a sham that russia is a member of with a veto. Like your nato argument your un argument is also a fail unless your saying Russia answers to the us.

The US simply ignores the UN even when the majority vetoes it. Does it get in trouble? No.

Anyone else does something like that and it's severe sanctions for starters.

Russia got mercilessly punished by the USA for harbouring Snowden - it's economy was brought to it's knees. But noone cares.

Where are the harsh sanctions on the USA for it's illegal war in Iraq?

Oh yeah, we've all forgotten how there were no weapons of mass destruction...

Watch the video below and see for yourself how muddy the truth is over this incident. Both parties are making stuff up.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
Yes, someone's lying, but why does it automatically have to be Putin?

Don't you know? he's Russian.

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: Flatcoat
Yes, someone's lying, but why does it automatically have to be Putin?

Don't you know? he's Russian.

Are you saying all Russians are liars? I was thinking it was just Putin.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: Flatcoat
Yes, someone's lying, but why does it automatically have to be Putin?

Don't you know? he's Russian.

Are you saying all Russians are liars? I was thinking it was just Putin.

Well one of the KGB schools of learning is effective lying. No doubt Putin was trained in the art of it.

It still doesn't mean that overall in Syria he is not doing the right thing though. Although I will and have already conceded that in the case of this jet being shot down, the lies are flying.

On Both sides.


In that Angel of Apocalypse video Erdogan outright lies when the reporter asks what his response to Putin accusing Turkey of directly supporting ISIS. He pretends he has not heard of this accusation. Then makes an oblique comment saying that 'IF' Russia had said it, it would escalate things.

So, both the bear and the turkey are telling fibs.

From what I can gather - the airspace encroachment was 1 mile and 17 seconds. Hardly a bomber menacing Istanbul or anything. Although the Russias are quite insistent that they were 1km (0.6 mile) on the Syrian side of the border.

And another porkie being told by the Turks this time - they claim that they warned the plane 10 times it was within their airspace. Listen to the length of the released recordings. They are at least 1 - 2 seconds long. Then they fired on it, and it crashed, which would have taken a few more seconds for the missile to be released and hit it.

A very long 17 seconds would you not concede? Unless of course there were NOT ten warnings that they were in Turkish air space.

It's the little details on both sides here that show neither one is telling the truth.

a reply to: Xcathdra

the world is focused on destroying terrorists
and you talk about paperwork


if there is infestation of rats in a village it sounds strange one property owner start screaming about violations to a terminator .. if he damaged something other then rats then talk about it .. what's the logic in asking for permission to kill rats

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: Xcathdra

the world is focused on destroying terrorists
and you talk about paperwork


if there is infestation of rats in a village it sounds strange one property owner start screaming about violations to a terminator .. if he damaged something other then rats then talk about it .. what's the logic in asking for permission to kill rats

Because the terminator puts down poison to kill rats, doesn't get permission, and the child that lives there ends up eating the rat poison and dies because no one knew.

Except what really happened is that there were no rats, and the exterminator crossed your property to burn down your neighbors house which happens to belong to your cousin, which had no rats in it, and he was actually fighting the rats. If the exterminator is concerned with rats, shouldn't he be where the rats are?

originally posted by: markosity1973
Well one of the KGB schools of learning is effective lying. No doubt Putin was trained in the art of it.
It's the little details on both sides here that show neither one is telling the truth.

We agree on both of these. Putin is lying, so is Turkey.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

ignore me
I don't know what blame games you guys are playing at when the goal is destroying terrorists

even with ur answer who was there 'terminating' first ..


Since September 2014, the U.S.-led coalition had conducted air strikes in Syria against ISIL, which was widely seen as unsuccessful in achieving their ostensible goals.[86][87]

a reply to: Xcathdra

Well looks like they actually did, given that "somehow" reporters were already in place to have video of the "event" and somehow they were at the right place at the right time. And still there's no confirming evidence this happened outside of Syria, only words and pretty pictures, and a terrible audio that doesn't have the russian side on it? not good.

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

so if USA is a better terminator where are they

Red Herring. I was merely pointing out Russia was bombing Turkmen, not ISIS, and Turkmen are actively fighting ISIS. Russia brought dangerous weapons through Turkey to bomb ethnic Turks without permission to do so.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I edited my post

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Are you sure? where are you getting this info from? From what it can be seen so far Turkey has allowed ISIS to exist and even has provided means for them to grow, i'm not sure about all of those things but so far it looks like a completely different thing.

originally posted by: Kaifan
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Are you sure? where are you getting this info from? From what it can be seen so far Turkey has allowed ISIS to exist and even has provided means for them to grow, i'm not sure about all of those things but so far it looks like a completely different thing.

I said nothing about Turkey. Turkmen =/= Turkey. Turkmen are ethnic Turks, living in Syria, that have been severely oppressed by Assad.

Turkmen are fighting ISIS, Russia was cutting through Turkey to bomb Syrian Turkmen, who are fighting ISIS.

originally posted by: Layaly
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I edited my post

I looked. Your post is still one giant Red Herring. Maybe I am wrong, can you show me where you talk about Turkmen being bombed by Russia, while Turkmen are fighting ISIS?

Your post has nothing to do with the topic, which is Russia lying about the flight path being given, and it has nothing to do with the post you replied to, which is Russia bombing rebel groups that are actively fighting ISIS.

Instead you want to talk about the US not bombing ISIS enough. Can you explain what that has to do with this thread? It's a Red Herring.