Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

Wow.
RUSSIAN AIR FORCE ANNIHILATED MILITANTS IN AREA WHERE SU-24 WAS SHOT DOWN. ERDOGAN ORDERED TURKISH AIR FORCE PLANES BE GROUNDED

Information has come from Syrian sources that last night (24.11) the Russian Aerospace Defence Forces struck with massive attacks on the positions of militants (including Turkomans) in the region where the Russian Su-24 was brought down.

The source reported that most likely nothing remains of the militants who shot down the Russian MI-8 .

No detailed information has arrived yet.

Meanwhile, there has appeared information that the Turks are not putting their fighters in the air after the majority of them were lit up by Russian radar (the S-300 and, according to early reports, possibly the S-400). After the statement of the Ministry of Defense of Russia, Turkey is afraid that their planes can be destroyed when approaching the border.

In this regard the Syrians reported that the Russia air-space forces can begin the full-scale destruction of camps in the border territory, and also annihilate the retreating militants and the fuel trucks which are moving towards Turkey.

Erdogan did not receive the hoped-for support from NATO. Erdogan has acknowledged that if the Russian plane even violated the border of Turkey, this was for only for 17 seconds, which means that the Turkish Air Force, on purely physical grounds, could not have reacted to it if the provocation was not prepared in advance. This figure of 17 seconds appears in NATO reports.

Members of NATO have been ambiguously treating Erdogan’s action. At present it is difficult to judge how the situation will develop. While it is obvious that Erdogan is attempting to back off, it is already too late, as Vladimir Putin gave to understand at a meeting with the king of Jordan.

Most likely Turkey did not expect such a severe reaction from Russia.

I was expecting a retaliation like this from Russia.

I just found a great explanation of the events at zerohedge.

The "Right of hot pursuit" is a murky concept at best, and applies to the most egregious crimes in the international space, Jack. It has never been accepted for something as trivial as a clearly non-aggressive violation of airspace (17 seconds worth or otherwise). There are no specific rules of engagement for violating another country's airspace that anyone agrees on. The generally accepted and almost universal practice is to escort (force) an aircraft out of your airspace after warning it and then bitch about the violation diplomatically and in the press. Nobody is so cowardly as to ambush a transiting aircraft without warning except Israel - and now, Turkey. There is no such thing as an international law that describes precisely when one country is 'allowed' to shoot down another aircraft in it's airspace, just the nebulous suggestion that a country has the right to defend its airspace. Using an excuse of 'hot pursuit' to punish an airspace violation would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

In extreme cases, you would only dare shoot at an aircraft ignoring you if it remains in your airspace and only while it is in your airspace and some kind of credible threat. By Turkey's own admission, they only believed the Russian aircraft to be transiting their airspace for all of 17 seconds at 19,000 ft. while performing a combat mission clearly focused on Syrian territory. In order to intercept the Russian jet at the right moment to get off an air-to-air missile in that 17-second window, they had to have planned to intercept and fire on it well beforehand. This has absolutely nothing to do with protecting Turkish airspace, but rather protecting the Turkmen al Nusra head-choppers operating in Syrian territory that the Russian jets were bombing. It was no accident - Erdogan had the attack planned from the start. Russia and everyone in NATO knows that, they just can't say so.

Erdogan just royally screwed himself.

1) Putin repositioning the Moskva and threatening to protect Russian aircraft from any potential threats means Turkey will lose anything they try to bring within 20 miles of a Russian jet. NATO has pretty much left Turkey twising in the wind on this one - they said Turkey and Russia had to work it out on their own. Meaning when Russia takes out a Turkish F-16 ten miles inside Turkish airspace because it was a potential threat to a Russian aircraft, NATO won't lift a finger. They've already said as much before they sent Turkey packing this morning.

2) The al Nusra Turkmen and their Chechen jihadi pals in the mountains are probably in for a little carpet bombing and cruise missile showers. The Turkmen civilians are already panicing and fleeing Syria for Turkey, so there's even less reason for Russia to hold back. That place is going to get leveled and the Turkmen will never be allowed back. It sucks to poke the bear in your own backyard - you will be relocating as a result, not the bear. The SAA will own those mountains (or what's left of them) again in a few weeks.

The West want Assad brought down so , so badly and Russia will not let that happen. Both sides know this and everything else is just a by product of a messy situation. This game of Bluff is going to spiral out of control very quickly if the West continue to expect to jump in to any Country they wish and change their regimes.
I'm really sick of Western Countries and Puppet nations on MSM trying to justify their War on Syria. It's not a war on ISIS at all its just a war on SYRIA!

originally posted by: grantbeed
The West want Assad brought down so , so badly and Russia will not let that happen. Both sides know this and everything else is just a by product of a messy situation. This game of Bluff is going to spiral out of control very quickly if the West continue to expect to jump in to any Country they wish and change their regimes.
I'm really sick of Western Countries and Puppet nations on MSM trying to justify their War on Syria. It's not a war on ISIS at all its just a war on SYRIA!

Russia would never do that of course, oh dear me no, just ask the people of Chechnya, Georgia or Ukraine to name but 3.

I think we need to outline the goals of what we are trying to do in Syria. I thought Russia got involved because one of their civilian planes got blown up returning from Sharm in Egypt and the French got involved because of the atrocity of Paris. So we had a bit of a coalition going to destroy Isis Russia are perfectly entitled to join in the attacks and seemed to be doing some of the groundwork. I would say they were a useful partner in the coalition. Not to be questioned in their legitimate involvement. I'm surprised to see some blaming the Russians for this. Turkey could potentially have ruined realistic chances of an early peace deal with their actions.
So those defending turkeys actions can I ask what is the goal for the west in Syria?

originally posted by: Agit8dChop
a reply to: asen_y2k
You have little respect for Russia.
Thats a very bad way to think.

Russia is smarter than you know, immediately striking back against Turkey is a dumb move only a dumb person would expect.

There's no point in striking Turkey just to show your strength.

Its stronger to hold back your dogs of war and plan retaliation that will be sudden, unexpected and damaging.

Russia better not react quick on this and very carefully calculate the emphasized word. Turkey is still a NATO member.

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Amdusias
a reply to: spy66

What I'm wondering is when was target lock established. Given those flight paths shown. I'm leaning towards Turkish jets locking and firing before Russian jets entered Turkey.

Makes sense for them to not turn back in towards Syria if a lock on was being established, but rather cut across the horizon to break a clear line of sight.

I so wish I could have heard that emergency meeting of NATO I'm sure the other members were asking them if they lost their mind.

What I fear is this: Now people have lost the fear of Russia. Till now it was a taboo to touch the Russian. That taboo is now gone. There was no immediate retaliation.

Now in the future, other NATO nations wont think twice about shooting down a Russian plane. Turkey just showed the world you can easily shoot down a Russian fighter and not have squadrons of bombers sent to Ankara, infact nothing but strong words in response.

There's zilch that Russian can do other than loud words (quickly taken by the wind). They cannot strike Turkey, nor can they seriously go against Turkey, since that would represent antagonizing another of their major energy clients.

See, Russia will soon find out that it can either sell energy, or try to impose their will, both things do not work. The SU tried to have client states and at the same time make them toe the line, we know that did not work, nor would it ever work.

If you want clients for your energy, you cannot demolish them. You cannot even use your biggest weapon, energy cuts, since then you go broke in no time when they do not pay.

Here are some followups after the incident.
Greek Source
Google Translator
1.

The news that the second pilot is unharmed, was collected and securely transferred to the Russian base confirmed a while ago and the Russian ambassador to France. The operator of the Su-24 is expected to provide crucial information under which the Turks were shot down Russian aircraft, a development that has led to dangerous situations in relations between Russia and Turkey, but NATO and Russia.
Today it became known how the Russian pilot was killed by jihadists, but from "Grey Wolves" have rushed to Turkey and Syrian borders to strengthen their Turkmen.

Greek Source
Google Translator
2.

Command activation of antiaircraft-missile S-400 Triumph systems transferred to Syria and "lock" any Turkish aircraft taking off towards the border into Syria, gave Moscow.

Russian sources even mention how an explicit mandate how you violated the airspace of Syria for more than 5-10 seconds or assess how compromising Russian planes on mission in Syria since the Turkish aircraft will be shot down without a second thought.

Note how the Russians have transferred S-400 to Syria (which highlighted the pronews.gr) and looks like it's time to act in full cooperation with other air defense systems, as well as the cruiser Moskva promoted again open of Latakia bearing S-300 systems.

Russia creates longer a shield anti-aircraft protection of the airspace of Syria and simultaneously with takeoff fighter Su-30SM air and severed all communication with Turkey militarily, plans carefully and dispassionately the answer, waiting for Turkey to do the wrong move.

And it only remains to them. With the publication of the video by the Ministry of Defence that the Su-24 did not violate Turkish airspace, unlike the Turkish F-16 violated the Syrian airspace to shoot rocket in the Russian aircraft and the message to NATO how can Alliance to support Turkey, but Russia is not willing to stay with "arms crossed" the serious challenge of Ankara sends message prompt and decisive response.

Regards

Seed

Geopolitically speaking, the incident with SU-24 will strengthen Russia's position in the region. And in the world as well.

originally posted by: JedemDasSeine
Geopolitically speaking, the incident with SU-24 will strengthen Russia's position in the region. And in the world as well.

Not really...

Say what you want about the west, Russia is just as disliked. Especially since Putin has been trying to rebuild the soviet union. They arent in syria fighting isis they are there to protect assad, which isnt making him any friends among the syrian people. The area where the shootdown occurred had no isis presence, just groups opposed to assad.

Putin cant do anything to turkey.

All he has left is words and even then the bulk of the planet has stopped listening.

Putin is a man out of time and it shows every time he throws a temper tantrum.

Meanwhile the US state department still speaks of 'moderate rebels fighting against ISIS'.
And defnding Turkeys actions.

It's very obvious which side they are on: www.liveleak.com...

China and Iran have weighed in on the incident

BEIJING (Reuters, AFP) - China called for more coordination in the fight against terrorism on Wednesday (Nov 25) after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border, while Iran said the downing "sends the wrong message to the terrorists" in Syria.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said China was paying close attention to the incident and that many circumstances "needed further clarification".

"China supports the international fight against terrorism, and we hope all sides strengthen their communication and coordination," Hong told a regular press briefing.

www.straitstimes.com...

originally posted by: sosobad
China and Iran have weighed in on the incident

BEIJING (Reuters, AFP) - China called for more coordination in the fight against terrorism on Wednesday (Nov 25) after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border, while Iran said the downing "sends the wrong message to the terrorists" in Syria.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said China was paying close attention to the incident and that many circumstances "needed further clarification".

"China supports the international fight against terrorism, and we hope all sides strengthen their communication and coordination," Hong told a regular press briefing.

www.straitstimes.com...

When China sounds like the voice of reason...

Well, it's 24 hours later...and guess what?

We're all still here; the World didn't end, Putin did effectively nothing (as expected), Armageddon didn't befall us and the Apocalypse was 'rescheduled'.

Whew!!

"...We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming."

originally posted by: jmlima

originally posted by: sosobad
China and Iran have weighed in on the incident

BEIJING (Reuters, AFP) - China called for more coordination in the fight against terrorism on Wednesday (Nov 25) after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border, while Iran said the downing "sends the wrong message to the terrorists" in Syria.

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said China was paying close attention to the incident and that many circumstances "needed further clarification".

"China supports the international fight against terrorism, and we hope all sides strengthen their communication and coordination," Hong told a regular press briefing.

www.straitstimes.com...

When China sounds like the voice of reason...

I know right, feels like I'm in the twilight zone

originally posted by: svetlana84
Meanwhile the US state department still speaks of 'moderate rebels fighting against ISIS'.

Ahh yes the fabled "domesticated" terrorists

Jihadi domesticus

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: svetlana84
Meanwhile the US state department still speaks of 'moderate rebels fighting against ISIS'.

Ahh yes the fabled "domesticated" terrorists

Jihadi domesticus

Like the syrian government or is it ok for them to murder their population en mass?

a reply to: Xcathdra

As I repeatedly have said.

I could not give a flying # about Assad.

He is not the one bombing Europe and declaring war on the world.

What he does within his own borders is none of my concern.

In my opinion ME country’s seem to need to be ruled with a Iron fist as every time we bring them "democracy" there country’s turn to chaos.

And anyway his country is in CIVIL WAR, war sucks people die.

I will give a dam when Assad starts attacking Europe, otherwise my only enemy is ISIS and those funding them!
Cue your looping pre-arranged response.

China is not going to get involved, and @AsenY2K, yes they do have an aircraft carrier.

What happened here is Russia realizing the COST of stepping into war.

People really thought Russia would come in and solve it. I would like to ask those people their thoughts in investments, because I would run full speed in the opposite direction. Russia is in over their head, and while people don't realize it now, they will very soon.

Russia has ONE option, and only one option when it comes to military. We all know what that option is, and Russia's broken down, outdated military force just isn't the force Vlad expected the world to expect. In-fact is a colossal miscalculation on the Russian side because they see the Western world as weak. This is a miscalculation, and I'm pretty sure Vlad knows it's NOT really Obama in charge of the military, but the military-industrial complex that has the whole world taken over thinking it is constantly in need of defense from a boogey-man.

originally posted by: Vector99
China is not going to get involved, and @AsenY2K, yes they do have an aircraft carrier.
.

A very old and out dated one which they are still training and developing doctrine for.

If anything its only a training ships while they build the ones currently under construction.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Cue your looping pre-arranged response.

Where assad has killed more people than isis.
That russia is in syria to bolster assad and not go after isis.

not pre arranged although thats an interesting phrase since putin is now spamming it.

By supporting assad and ignoring isis he is enabling them.