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Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

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posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 12:02 AM
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a reply to: Indigo5

What you state here is nothing New. Russia is on Assads side..... The political head of Syria.

Russia said they would target the rebels because they are also terrorsits. But Putin has asked the US and the UN about who the moderate rebels are. But the US will no share that information. Why???

Because Russia have their personal interests (supporting Assad) and the US have their's (getting ridd of Assad).




posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 12:05 AM
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originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: bjarneorn

No, once again, my point here all along has been; no one is playing the nuclear card...and no one is going to anytime soon. Certainly not over the loss of a single fighter jet. Not Russia, not the US, not China...or anyone else.

Simple.





True far worse has happened without things going nuclear.

What can happen is that Turkey may interfere with F16s when the Russians start bombing the Turkmen now. In response they can get some of their F16s shotdown. This is the worst case senario at the moment.

For sure Russia will hit Turkmen rebels now. If Turkey protects them or not, we will see.


This is actually the reason why Turkey were so agressive and brough Down the SU-24. Two days before this event Turkey had gone to the UN accusing Russia for Targeting the Turkmen (who Turkey see as their long time rebel allies) in the exact same location.

There has also been a boarder dispute in the same location between Turkey and Syria since the rebel oprising.





For all we know, Russia may have just baited Turkey and now have a reason to establish a No Fly Zone to destroy all anti Assad forces in Syria. They moved in anti air assets immediately after the SU24 was hit. Looks like they had a pre planned objective. Also to support my conclusion we can see that the SU24 bomber aircraft repeatedly entered the 2.4km of Turkish air space in circles, just asking to be shot at. That too without any fighter cover, making it very easy for Turkey.
edit on 25/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 12:15 AM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: bjarneorn

No, once again, my point here all along has been; no one is playing the nuclear card...and no one is going to anytime soon. Certainly not over the loss of a single fighter jet. Not Russia, not the US, not China...or anyone else.

Simple.





True far worse has happened without things going nuclear.

What can happen is that Turkey may interfere with F16s when the Russians start bombing the Turkmen now. In response they can get some of their F16s shotdown. This is the worst case senario at the moment.

For sure Russia will hit Turkmen rebels now. If Turkey protects them or not, we will see.


This is actually the reason why Turkey were so agressive and brough Down the SU-24. Two days before this event Turkey had gone to the UN accusing Russia for Targeting the Turkmen (who Turkey see as their long time rebel allies) in the exact same location.

There has also been a boarder dispute in the same location between Turkey and Syria since the rebel oprising.





For all we know, Russia may have just baited Turkey and now have a reason to establish a No Fly Zone to destroy all anti Assad forces in Syria. They moved in anti air assets immediately after the SU24 was hit. Looks like they had a pre planned objective. Also to support my conclusion we can see that the SU24 bomber aircraft repeatedly entered the 2.4km of Turkish air space in circles, just asking to be shot at. That too without any fighter cover, making it very easy for Turkey.


Well, Turkey wont bee doing this again without being challenged.

This particular issue reminds me of Ukrane where the Russians support the rebeles. The only difference is that Russia have not being flying sorties to protect the Ukrain rebels from the Ukrain airforce.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: bjarneorn

Very interesting observation! I used "google" and found this very informative site quite possibly explaining what is truly happening in this global chess game being played out.

"The endgame is at hand, and only the most desperate measures can hope to prevent Russia and Syria from finally securing Syria's borders. Turkey's provocation is just such a measure," he emphasizes.

Read more: sputniknews.com...



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: bjarneorn

One can see it as a retaliation yes, Turkey has been waiting for this chance, today they had the opportunity.
Those 17 seconds flying along the border on the wrong side can hardly be seen as a reason to shoot the Russian aircraft out of the sky.

NATO is not focussed on destabilizing the middle east, just because the US and Turkey are NATO countries doesn't mean that NATO is a party in this.
In fact, there has been no intervention due to the stance of Russia who voted against an intervention and protects the Syrian regime.
There is no doubt in my mind that the US, Turkey and the gulf states had a hand in the uprising against the oppressive Syrian regime.
But sooner or later this would have happened anyway, the alawites are a minority in Syria, yet they form the regime and occupy every important leading role.
Hence that is why the regime always react rather violently against any threat to them, such as politicians and people on high positions.



Filmed feb. 17, 2011. Pro-democracy activists hold a mass demonstration rally against the military rule of the Assad family dynasty who have ruled since 1970. Syria is a military state with zero freedoms at all and a brutal and repressive regime. filmed feb. 17, 2011 in a 'day of rage' sweeping across the middle east and north africa.




This protest was said to be because a man was severely beaten by four policemen.
But it died down after the man was picked up and the crowd dispersed, according to some sources another crowd filled the square with pictures of Assad and his father.
On March 18 it escalated when during renewed protests the regime used lethal force against the protesters.

Syria’s ‘reformer’




HILLARY CLINTON (Secretary of State): No. Each of these situations is unique, Bob. Certainly,
we deplore the violence in Syria. We call, as we have on all of these governments during this
period of the Arab awakening, as some have called it, to be responding to their people’s needs,
not to engage in violence, permit peaceful protest and begin a process of economic and political
reform. The situation in Libya, which engendered so much concern from around the
international community had a leader who used military force against the protestors from one
end of his country to the other, who publicly said things like, we’ll show no mercy. We’ll go
house to house. And the international community moved with great speed in part because
there’s a history here. This is someone who has behaved in a way that caused grave concern in
the past forty-plus years in the Arab world, the African world, Europe and the United States.
BOB SCHIEFFER: But I mean-- how can that be worse than what has happened in Syria over
the years, where Bashar Assad’s father killed twenty-five thousand people at-- at a lick. I mean,
they opened fire with live ammunition on these civilians.
HILLARY CLINTON: Well--
BOB SCHIEFFER: Why is that different from Libya?
HILLARY CLINTON: Well, I--
BOB SCHIEFFER (overlapping): This is a friend of Iran, an enemy of Israel?
HILLARY CLINTON: Well, if there were a coalition of the international community, if there were
the passage of a Security Council resolution, if there were a call by the Arab League, if there
was a condemnation that was universal but that is not going to happen because I don’t think
that it’s yet clear what will occur, what will unfold? There is a different leader in Syria now. Many
of the members of Congress of both parties who have gone to Syria in recent months have said
they believe he’s a reformer. What’s been happening there the last few weeks is-- is deeply
concerning. But there’s a difference between calling out aircraft and indiscriminately strafing and
bombing your own cities, then police actions, which frankly have exceeded the use of force that
any of us would want to see.


I think we all remember Obama's red line in 2013

Obama Set for Limited Strike on Syria as British Vote No



WASHINGTON — President Obama is prepared to move ahead with a limited military strike on Syria, administration officials said Thursday, despite a stinging rejection of such action by America’s stalwart ally Britain and mounting questions from Congress.
The negative vote in Britain’s Parliament was a heavy blow to Prime Minister David Cameron, who had pledged his support to Mr. Obama and called on lawmakers to endorse Britain’s involvement in a brief operation to punish the government of President Bashar al-Assad for apparently launching a deadly chemical weapons attack last week that killed hundreds.
The vote was also a setback for Mr. Obama, who, having given up hope of getting United Nations Security Council authorization for the strike, is struggling to assemble a coalition of allies against Syria.


More disappointment


Saudi Arabia miscalculated the ease with which US-led Western powers could quickly organize a military strike on Syria following the now-confirmed chemical attack of Aug. 21. The push for a quick strike stumbled in Washington, London and Paris, giving way to high-level diplomacy between the United States and Russia and disappointment in Saudi Arabia. The US-Russian framework for the elimination of Syria's chemical arsenal appears to be a deviation from Riyadh’s immediate objectives. By focusing on the sole objective of removing the Bashar al-Assad regime from power, the Saudi leadership may have overlooked that despite having important resources and weight, regional powers like itself can today be constrained by the changing international environment.
In Jiddah on Sept. 16, Crown Prince Salman Ibn Abdul Aziz presided over the Council of Ministers and warned the international community against reducing the Syrian crisis to the issue of chemical weapons. In anticipation of a UN Security Council meeting on Sept. 18 to discuss the UN report on the Syrians' use of chemical weapons and pass a strong resolution, Salman called on the international community to strengthen the Syrian opposition and protect civilians, reminding it of the urgency of pushing for a new regime in Damascus. Saudi Arabia may soon find itself a spectator on the periphery, watching an international game in which it can only make noise, and possibly trouble, if its objectives cease to be a priority for other, more important international players with their own agendas.


There is not really a reason for me to continue after this article from Al-monitor which is deemed a credible journalistic source.
The bombs did not fell on Syria and ISIS emerged which became IS after they established the caliphate (Islamic State).
There is good reason to believe that the US, Turkey and the gulf states are behind ISIS, they obviously get their weapons and supplies from them.
Especially the reluctance to bomb the oil trucks is quite telling, as if bombing Syria after his red line would not have caused civilian casualties.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 01:36 AM
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a reply to: spy66

What I'm wondering is when was target lock established. Given those flight paths shown. I'm leaning towards Turkish jets locking and firing before Russian jets entered Turkey.

Makes sense for them to not turn back in towards Syria if a lock on was being established, but rather cut across the horizon to break a clear line of sight.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 01:48 AM
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The situation certainly isn't settling.


Britain has already declared that military back-up is on standby to support Turkey in any revenge attack by Putin's forces. President Barack Obama also pledged America's support for Turkey following a phone call with Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan


Source



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 01:58 AM
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One pilot with Syrian army one dead

"One on board was wounded when he parachuted down and killed in a savage way on the ground by jihadists in the area. The other managed to escape. According to the latest information he has been picked up by the Syrian Army and should be going back to the Russian Air Force base," Ambassador Aleksandr Orlov told Europe 1 radio as cited by Reuters.


RT



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 02:14 AM
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originally posted by: Amdusias
a reply to: spy66

What I'm wondering is when was target lock established. Given those flight paths shown. I'm leaning towards Turkish jets locking and firing before Russian jets entered Turkey.

Makes sense for them to not turn back in towards Syria if a lock on was being established, but rather cut across the horizon to break a clear line of sight.



No it doesn't pilot is taught to turn away from lock and get distance between them and missile launch. You kick the craft in full throttle and hit after burners. Cutting across the horizon is exactly the wrong move. The other option is head for early for launch hoping you can get past minimum range or cause the missile to attempt to miss you pop chaff making a larger target and pray the missile can't get lock on you and flys by.

Now in this situation I think that the Russian pilot miscalculated standard procedure would have been for f16 to come into visual range and escourt them out of the area. This wasn't done because well let's be honest Turkey is pissed about Russian jets bombing turks in syria. Any other NATO country would have wax purred them out of their airspace.

Yes Turkey had the right to do this however it was simply them trying to teach Russia a lesson to stay away from their border. That's why they issued several warnings about previous violations of their airspace. Some general made a bad call and decided Turkey will not continue to allow this. I so wish I could have heard that emergency meeting of NATO I'm sure the other members were asking them if they lost their mind. What worries me the most however is the lack of foreign policy by the Obama admin that allows things like this to occur. He had made one blunder after another in foreign policy. It started with him sending arms to Saudi Arabia for them to ship to rebels fighting assad. Well before that even he knew Iraq wasn't ready to handle their own government and he pulled out to early. But when they requested help his lack of response allowed isis a safe heaven to gain strength. Through in the mess that was created trying to get those weapons back from Syrian rebels and as we can see decision after decision he had made things worse

Even know the proper response for the US about this shooting would have been to offer condolences to the family of the Russian pilot and say he will be making changes to prevent this in the future. Instead I watched his speech and was furious what he said instead is basically well we told the Russians this would happen and Turkey had every right to do it. This isn't diplomacy this is something else and I'm getting an uneasy feeling because I have a theory and his I hope I'm wrong.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 02:17 AM
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Things on the coalition side had been starting to look promising. No matter how you frame this turkeys actions have set the chance for a quick peace deal in Syria way back, ofcourse there was going to be some tough talking about what came after Assad, but while both sides were targeting Isis an end looked possible. Turkey have messed that up by acting too aggressively and putting a huge maybe unresolveable wedge down the middle of the coalition, that surprisingly had been working together on the shared goal of defeating isis
edit on 25-11-2015 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 02:21 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Amdusias
a reply to: spy66

What I'm wondering is when was target lock established. Given those flight paths shown. I'm leaning towards Turkish jets locking and firing before Russian jets entered Turkey.

Makes sense for them to not turn back in towards Syria if a lock on was being established, but rather cut across the horizon to break a clear line of sight.


I so wish I could have heard that emergency meeting of NATO I'm sure the other members were asking them if they lost their mind.


What I fear is this: Now people have lost the fear of Russia. Till now it was a taboo to touch the Russian. That taboo is now gone. There was no immediate retaliation.

Now in the future, other NATO nations wont think twice about shooting down a Russian plane. Turkey just showed the world you can easily shoot down a Russian fighter and not have squadrons of bombers sent to Ankara, infact nothing but strong words in response.
edit on 25/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

edit on 25/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 02:42 AM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Amdusias
a reply to: spy66

What I'm wondering is when was target lock established. Given those flight paths shown. I'm leaning towards Turkish jets locking and firing before Russian jets entered Turkey.

Makes sense for them to not turn back in towards Syria if a lock on was being established, but rather cut across the horizon to break a clear line of sight.


I so wish I could have heard that emergency meeting of NATO I'm sure the other members were asking them if they lost their mind.


What I fear is this: Now people have lost the fear of Russia. Till now it was a taboo to touch the Russian. That taboo is now gone. There was no immediate retaliation.

Now in the future, other NATO nations wont think twice about shooting down a Russian plane. Turkey just showed the world you can easily shoot down a Russian fighter and not have squadrons of bombers sent to Ankara, infact nothing but strong words in response.

Which from the start had me questioning Russia's intervention in Syria at all. Putin had to know this moment would come. Russia will not retaliate, they have been a big bluff the entire time in my opinion. Only reason the bluff wasn't called, well that's 7,000 nuclear weapons behind that bluff.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 02:50 AM
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Breaking: RUSSIA TO DEPLOY S-400 DEFENSE MISSILE SYSTEM TO KHMEIMIM AIRBASE IN SYRIA - DEFENSE MINISTER



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 02:56 AM
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a reply to: asen_y2k

They are gonna shoot down a Turkish jet that comes near I bet.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 03:01 AM
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originally posted by: Vector99
a reply to: asen_y2k

They are gonna shoot down a Turkish jet that comes near I bet.


I am sure, no Turkish jet will cross the border.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 03:26 AM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Amdusias
a reply to: spy66

What I'm wondering is when was target lock established. Given those flight paths shown. I'm leaning towards Turkish jets locking and firing before Russian jets entered Turkey.

Makes sense for them to not turn back in towards Syria if a lock on was being established, but rather cut across the horizon to break a clear line of sight.


I so wish I could have heard that emergency meeting of NATO I'm sure the other members were asking them if they lost their mind.


What I fear is this: Now people have lost the fear of Russia. Till now it was a taboo to touch the Russian. That taboo is now gone. There was no immediate retaliation.

Now in the future, other NATO nations wont think twice about shooting down a Russian plane. Turkey just showed the world you can easily shoot down a Russian fighter and not have squadrons of bombers sent to Ankara, infact nothing but strong words in response.

So far....I'm sure Russia will be planning some form of retaliation as we type. Maybe another mystery explosive attack.?



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 03:35 AM
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a reply to: asen_y2k
You have little respect for Russia.
Thats a very bad way to think.

Russia is smarter than you know, immediately striking back against Turkey is a dumb move only a dumb person would expect.

There's no point in striking Turkey just to show your strength.

Its stronger to hold back your dogs of war and plan retaliation that will be sudden, unexpected and damaging.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 03:44 AM
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So, 24 hours later, we still have no proof from Turkey about warning the russian jet for kore than 5 min.
(all i heard was a 10 sec clip about 'approaching turkish airspace' and US sayin, yes we heard it.

There was a professional camerateam (with photographer, judging by the shutterclicks on audio) which was filming a jet in 6000m before it was shot down. So they definetly had foreknowledge, that there will be something happening to the jet.

This just after Russia accused Turkey getting millions of barrels of oil from ISIS.

The whole incident was planned by Turkey. And backed by Nato.



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 03:45 AM
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originally posted by: Agit8dChop
a reply to: asen_y2k
You have little respect for Russia.
Thats a very bad way to think.

Russia is smarter than you know, immediately striking back against Turkey is a dumb move only a dumb person would expect.

There's no point in striking Turkey just to show your strength.

Its stronger to hold back your dogs of war and plan retaliation that will be sudden, unexpected and damaging.


On the contrary, I respect Putin and his strategy. If you read my previous post I outlined the long term strategy here. Its apparantly that you blindly jumped into the conversation here.

If you re read my post, you will see at the beginning I typed, 'I fear'. Its not my opinion, but I think others may feel that way, that shooting down Russians will not have any serious immediate consequences and others can make the same mistake.
edit on 25/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2015 @ 03:46 AM
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Breaking on RT:

RUSSIAN MISSILE CRUISER OFF LATAKIA COAST, READY TO DESTROY DANGEROUS AIR TARGETS - DEFENSE MINISTER
edit on 25/11/15 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)



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