Turkey shot down Russian Jet: reportedly by two F16's

It's interesting that Russian media is now speculating about the possibility of a rebel group bringing it down from the ground.

If this isn't true, Russia is trying to clear the way to back-up and slow things down to avoid a larger conflict.
If it is true, Turkey is trying to claim something false, but for what reason? Is Turkey trying to drag NATO into conflict?

Whatever happens here, NATO needs to dramatically reassess its relationship with Turkey.

originally posted by: angryhulk
Russia, in either version, should have responded to warnings.

Oh, that part. Yes. When someone warns you that you are in their airspace the natural response is no I am not, not ignoring them. Russia does not deny they were warned about being in Turkish airspace. So in both versions Turkey said "you are in our airspace".

Look at the radar track published by Turkey. The box is where the plane was shot down. It is in Syrian airspace. The plane was in a small area of Turkey previously

The plane was shot inside Syria.

originally posted by: asen_y2k
Look at the radar track published by Turkey. The box is where the plane was shot down. It is in Syrian airspace. The plane was in a small area of Turkey previously

The plane was shot inside Syria.

So it violated Turkish airspace and was downed upon leaving Turkish airspace.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk
Russia, in either version, should have responded to warnings.

Oh, that part. Yes. When someone warns you that you are in their airspace the natural response is no I am not, not ignoring them. Russia does not deny they were warned about being in Turkish airspace. So in both versions Turkey said "you are in our airspace".

And back to my question. If they were in Syrian airspace, is it obligatory to respond to Turkey?

RT Russia Today News Regarding Su-24 Shoot-down.

RT is saying the Su-24 was shot down from the ground and was "objectively over Syrian air space". Russian MoD quoted as saying that they had not violated Turkish Airspace.

More in the article.

Apparently Turkey released a flight track of the plane.
mobile.twitter.com...

Right now theres a finger pointing game going on.

Turkey also said that F-16s shot the plane down, while Russia states that the plane was shot from the ground.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Even it did enter Turkish airspace, that fact that it left and entered Syrian airspace, shows that the pilots respected the warnings.

Turkey are in the wrong for shooting them down regardless.

originally posted by: woogleuk
a reply to: BIGPoJo

I think it is more likely that Turkey just doesn't like Syria, and now Russia for backing Assad, so they aren't willing to give them any breathing room when it comes to borders.

Turkey and Russia have had chilled relations since....well since Russia existed.

EDIT:


Syrian rebels say that the other pilot is dead.

Hmm, I wonder.. What will change the outcome of all this by discussing if they actually violated airspace or not.

Let's go guys, we can figure this sh*t out !!

originally posted by: angryhulk

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: angryhulk
Russia, in either version, should have responded to warnings.

Oh, that part. Yes. When someone warns you that you are in their airspace the natural response is no I am not, not ignoring them. Russia does not deny they were warned about being in Turkish airspace. So in both versions Turkey said "you are in our airspace".

And back to my question. If they were in Syrian airspace, is it obligatory to respond to Turkey?

No, it's common sense that you do, just as you claimed that it's common sense for Turkey to just trust that Russia is there for ISIS and not them.
You can't claim the common sense excuse on one hand and then ignore it on the other.

Remember turkeys asked for a 20km buffer zone on the border. But it was declined.. The Russian plane entered this space the doesnt violate the air space. " reports from rt news " for u mean ones.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: asen_y2k
Look at the radar track published by Turkey. The box is where the plane was shot down. It is in Syrian airspace. The plane was in a small area of Turkey previously

The plane was shot inside Syria.

So it violated Turkish airspace and was downed upon leaving Turkish airspace.

Yes. Reading the Turkish radar data says that.

originally posted by: Danowski
Hmm, I wonder.. What will change the outcome of all this by discussing if they actually violated airspace or not.

Let's go guys, we can figure this sh*t out !!

Russia state that this is very serious, but say its to early to Draw any conclusions.

Its weird how one side says 2x jets shot it down, then the other says it came from the ground.

So its either Turkey shooting a Russian jet that entered its border.. (it wouldn't be the first time Russia's done that..)
Or its ISIS shooting down the jet with new anti aircraft toys..

I'm thinking... there was probably similar confusion in the 80's when the first attack helicopter went down over Afghanistan..

How would this benefit Turkey? Turkeys people are already protesting for peace.. Everyone knows ISIS have no air force so there' was never any mistake who they were shooting at..

If Russia did enter its airspace and ignored warnings for 10 minutes.. you'd expect Turkey to send up a couple of jets to try and push it out.. if Russia still refused to leave after ignoring direct warnings from the jets.. then shooting it down is fair game.. you'd have audio and video of this incident though and would release it immediately to the media.

If the jet was in Syria and Turkey shot it down deliberately, regardless of the consequences.. then... damn!

originally posted by: asen_y2k
Look at the radar track published by Turkey. The box is where the plane was shot down. It is in Syrian airspace. The plane was in a small area of Turkey previously

The plane was shot inside Syria.

It would not surprise me if you are correct.

I think Turkey was given its orders to do this. It corresponds with the Crimea blackout and trade boycott. There is an underhand and clandestine attack on Russia already. Remember the sanctions on Russia are still in place.

Putin better put up or shut up. They are coming for him next. His bold move in Syria might have been just what they wanted him to do, to draw him in to the utter fiasco that is Syria. We see how many nations are there bombing and they STILL can't defeat IS, lol; a few wayward Arabs can't be defeated by all that air power. Someone is pulling our collective leg here I am certain of it. Think how easily the U.S took out Iraq. Yet ALL these nations, including Russia, U.S, France and others STILL have not defeated a small international band of Arabs who have nothing like the proper training and NO air power at all. Robin Hood and His Merry Men sure are leading the nations a merry dance.

Now I see how the Revelation scenario could easily happen. All the armies have been summoned to Syria, right on the door step of Megiddo. (Deliberate hyperbole here).

The lunatics have indeed taken over the asylum.

originally posted by: DAZ21
a reply to: Xcathdra

Even it did enter Turkish airspace, that fact that it left and entered Syrian airspace, shows that the pilots respected the warnings.

Turkey are in the wrong for shooting them down regardless.

The Turkish airspace the Russian plane entered was a piece of land that projects into Syria, like a nipple(sorry of the eg). The plane ente just for a few seconds if not a minute. It crosses the nipple gets out and get shot down inside Syria.

Sorry if already mentioned ...

Knee jerking at the footage I just saw on local news.

The stricken jet appeared to be at 40deg at best going down.

This could be relevent depending when the supposedly fit and hungry pilots ejected.

... Slow descent after being winged - gone critical.
Or hit and bail ...

Just a thought.

a reply to: angryhulk

I agree. If this is the case that the Russian fighter/bomber was in Syrian Airspace, what were the Turks doing flying in that area. Looking to shoot down an aircraft?

It is obvious this plane had no intention of striking Turkey regardless of the obligation over Syrian Airspace to respond to an IDFF.

Regards,

Bally