Islam Call To Prayer In America

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Why don't you pray for the disturbance to stop...

If someone from the higher levels did send you a telepathic message to stop would you follow it?

originally posted by: Gryphon66

originally posted by: LittleByLittle
If one religion is allowed this then all religions should be allowed this.

Lets create 5 calls for prayer that is intrusive from all faiths and all have listen to it including Muslim.

I have a feeling if Muslim was exposed to the mirror of their own behavior the maybe one day they would become self aware of what they are giving out to the world.

I'm fairly certain that American Muslims are fully aware of the hatred and intrusions of other faiths all around them.

Perhaps it is the Christians who are being reminded that Muslims are a bit more faithful to God than they are that is the problem? I can't say for sure.

Well there is some debate on What God you are referring to. Muslims tend to deny jesus was also Christ and i seem to remember a verse saying anyone who does so is a anti christ and therefore not of God.(paraphrasing a bit but basically what it means)
They might be more devoted to "their" God though thats true.

a reply to: Gryphon66

I photograph those signs and can empathize about being stuck in traffic beside them. Boy, have there been some doozies too. But they're on their property, so...go for it. Ha.

a reply to: yuppa

Any version of God is equivalent to Superman and/or the Easter Bunny to me.

There are Muslims here who can address your question about which God, better than I, as it's all hogwash to me.

I do remember that The Bible also says "Love God first, love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Funny, I don't see that one brought up as much in these type of discussions ...

originally posted by: sirlancelot

Seriously! You are comparing a sign which you don;t have to look at to the call of prayer which EVERYONE must listen to 5x a day! Bad correlation!

Unlike you who is dredging up something that doesn't affect you in any way, shape, form or fashion, that wasn't what you claimed it was, that hasn't been an issue for the citizens of those cities in MI for about six years or more?

Mr. Sinner, I'd be careful with those stones you're throwin'.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Gryphon66

I photograph those signs and can empathize about being stuck in traffic beside them. Boy, have there been some doozies too. But they're on their property, so...go for it. Ha.

Occasionally, I do see one I can sympathize with ...



... but by and large, they're obnoxious. Yet, I have never for a second thought of complaining about them.

Back to that live and let live thing, I suppose.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I don't know if it was supposed to be satirical or not (I'm guessing not) but that Havens Corners Church sign is hilarious nonetheless.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: yuppa

Any version of God is equivalent to Superman and/or the Easter Bunny to me.

There are Muslims here who can address your question about which God, better than I, as it's all hogwash to me.

I do remember that The Bible also says "Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Funny, I don't see that one brought up as much in these type of discussions ...

You can love your neighbor and still kill them if they tyr to hurt someone else. WOuld you yourself force anyone to worship who you worship? Also you left out a few other parts to No greater commandment than these. Such as Love the Lord God for one.
I dont see why people assume you cant kill someone and still love them while doing so. it s only murder if you do it in cold blood which needs malice and pre planning.

a reply to: theantediluvian

I think they were dead serious.

Obviously they do not like lesbians as much as I do, if at all.

originally posted by: LittleByLittle

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
Why don't you pray for the disturbance to stop...

If someone from the higher levels did send you a telepathic message to stop would you follow it?

I answered you telepathically.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: theantediluvian

I think they were dead serious.

Obviously they do not like lesbians as much as I do, if at all.

I now they are serious,but sometimes....the pastor really really needs to think. If it was a catholic church it be even funnier.

originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: yuppa

Any version of God is equivalent to Superman and/or the Easter Bunny to me.

There are Muslims here who can address your question about which God, better than I, as it's all hogwash to me.

I do remember that The Bible also says "Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."

Funny, I don't see that one brought up as much in these type of discussions ...

You can love your neighbor and still kill them if they tyr to hurt someone else. WOuld you yourself force anyone to worship who you worship? Also you left out a few other parts to No greater commandment than these. Such as Love the Lord God for one.
I dont see why people assume you cant kill someone and still love them while doing so. it s only murder if you do it in cold blood which needs malice and pre planning.

Oookay ... that's a scary, serial murderer kind of "love" if you ask me.

I would not force anyone to worship who I worship.

I added in Love God first ... you must have missed the edit.

Muslims do "Love God" apparently, they are willing to stop whatever they are doing five times per day and pray to Him.

Again ... your ability to draw fine distinctions in killing people is, frankly, terrifying. Murder is murder.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Now that's a sin!

originally posted by: yuppa

WOuld you yourself force anyone to worship who you worship?

No, of course not. People must come to Cthulhu of their own free will and accord.

It makes their cries of suffering and lamentation so much more pleasurable that way.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: yuppa

WOuld you yourself force anyone to worship who you worship?

No, of course not. People must come to Cthulhu of their own free will and accord.

It makes their cries of suffering and lamentation so much more pleasurable that way.

Ah ... "lamentation" ... there's just not enough of that to go around, these days ...

/swoon

(LOL)

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: redhorse

So ... religious freedom for Christians but no one else?

Since, of course, all Americans who are traditional, and have American culture are Christian?

Sorry, the Constitution applies to all equally. See Monroe, Madison, Adams, Jefferson, et. al.

Read it again. I know what the Constitution says. My argument is that there is a fundamental conflict between the cultural values (as set out in the Constitution) of accepting freedom of religion (which is inherent to the culture) and accepting a religion that is a threat to the culture. If you do not see Islam as a threat to the culture then I disagree. It is inherent to my argument that it is intentionally and conscientiously opposed to Western culture.

I am not a Christian, but it is impossible to separate religion from culture, it's important to most people; especially in in this case, because Islam is aggressive and intentionally conflicting with our own cultural values. Blasting calls to prayer has a tremendous psychological impact, and one that is intentional. It is a passive-aggressive attempt to subvert the culture whether you'll admit it or not, and historically those efforts become more aggressive than passive over time as followers are gained.

Sure the constitution applies to all equally, and they should be allowed to practice their religion, but calls to prayer over loud-speakers is not necessary, save as an attempt to indoctrinate (or failing that intimidate) the rest of the population. Blasting bible verses over loud-speakers, and reminding people to attend church five times a day would be seen as invasive, disruptive religious indoctrination for the populace that must listen to it (and rightly so), and as such, quite probably, considered unconstitutional (again, in my opinion at least, rightly so). If I lived in a community that started doing that I would probably move, because if they are that invested in their religion (when I am not) my place in the community and possibly my safety could be precarious, and even more than that, I do not want my daughter indoctrinated into that sort of religious fervor. It goes against MY values that I am trying to teach her, (which happen to include religious freedom, see the dilemma here?) Even church bells (once on Sunday) are considered offensive and invasive in many communities, but Muslim calls to prayer should be allowed? I suspect that you will minimize this or ignore it (milling about), but this seems like a haphazard and hypocritical application of that Constitutional freedom and equitability that you, and so many are invoking here.

You are falling firmly in the camp of Freedom of Religion and equitability and that's fine, but you can't just count out religion and its impact on American values and even more so, its impact upon Muslim values. Social constructs and cultures don't work that way; people, (for the most part) don't work that way. Islam is not only a religion but a tremendous cultural definer that has no investment in protecting the Freedom of Religion of other people, or even their cultural values. It is, in fact, opposed to that value of tolerance and freedom, at least in the current incarnation that is gaining steam. Your way is simpler, and frankly more fair, but religion impacts culture, there is no escaping that, especially in this particular conflict where religion and values and religious-values (intertwined) are primary components of said conflict. Pretending otherwise just because we would like it to be that way is naïve and foolish.

a reply to: redhorse

Perhaps you should "read it again."

There is no distinction, whatsoever, in the Constitution about which religion's exercise shall be free.

I, personally, see almost all religion as a threat to human culture, particularly when one group of adherents believe that they are the "only ones with the Truth."

As to the rest of your ... material ... I can accept that as your opinion without discounting it fact by fact.

So, Peas be With You.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Flatfish

I hear you, again, there are lots of religious practices that irritate the tee-total stuff out of me.

But.

In these Michigan cities the OP is complaining about ... this issue arises from 2004! No laws were changed to allow for anything. The Calls to Prayer do not exceed the noise ordinances.

I hear you, I understand the frustration, but this is one of those times where regardless of how I personally feel about a matter, our Constitution is clear.

I too support the constitution, including the part that guarantees the right to practice and/or express one's religious beliefs.

On the other hand, I don't believe that the right to religious expression comes without limits.

Don't some elements of Islam believe in honor killings as part of their faith? Isn't it part of their faith to stone homosexuals and/or adulterers? Do we allow those religious expressions to be carried out here in the U.S.?

I know those are some harsh comparisons, but my point is that even those rights enshrined in our constitution are not without limits.

On the other hand, I see your point and if the activity has been deemed to be within the noise limits currently allowed in that community, there's not a lot an individual can do about it other than to change their local ordinances or move away.

I'm fortunate, I live in a rural area with no Mosques or Churches nearby, but I can tell you this.....

If I lived next door to one of those loud speakers and I had to listen to their prayer call 5 times everyday, those who attend that Mosque sure as hell won't like what I play over my loud speakers 10 times a day, with 5 of those timed to perfectly drowned out their message and I guess we'd just keep doing it until someone got tired of it.

Sometimes, I guess you just gotta fight fire with fire.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: yuppa

WOuld you yourself force anyone to worship who you worship?

No, of course not. People must come to Cthulhu of their own free will and accord.

It makes their cries of suffering and lamentation so much more pleasurable that way.

BEST POST EVAR!! Cheers!! or ffthhngghhhh!!

So you have objection to people being called to pray to god?

I object to pushing Islam on America. If you don't then you're too stupid to live and don't expect any sympathy when they cut your head off for not following their extremism.