Black Lives Don't Matter...

a reply to: Gryphon66

Let's put this another way.

I agree that not all welfare goes to blacks and now many are doing better than they were 10 yrs ago and that is not because of welfare and I feel that when Obama said redistributing the wealth he was referring to means other than welfare and it worked somewhat.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Gryphon66

Let's put this another way.

I agree that not all welfare goes to blacks and now many are doing better than they were 10 yrs ago and that is not because of welfare and I feel that when Obama said redistributing the wealth he was referring to means other than welfare and it worked somewhat.

What other means is Obama using to "redistribute wealth" to anyone Blacks, Whites, Purples, Greens.

If you don't mind, please be specific and cite something factual beyond the deep well of your own wisdom.

Many of the suggestions in this thread have been clear that the social safety net has "destroyed" the Black community in this country, and yet, more of those funds go to Whites now than ever ... and yet, we never see generalized BS about the White Community Being Destroyed by Welfare.

Of course, there are hundreds of thousands of highly successful Black Americans ... indeed, that was my point in the link that you're trying desperately to twist into something else.

a reply to: Gryphon66
Oh I think if you just research obamas answer on redistribution would be more prudent than me trying to recite what he has said on the matter.

It is a real issue that he has pursued.

He was smart enough not to directly legislate such but unless he just gave up on his beliefs then he is either a failure or he made some changes that will steer the usa towards his goal.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Gryphon66
Oh I think if you just research obamas answer on redistribution would be more prudent than me trying to recite what he has said on the matter.

It is a real issue that he has pursued.

He was smart enough not to directly legislate such but unless he just gave up on his beliefs then he is either a failure or he made some changes that will steer the usa towards his goal.

So, once again, not unexpectedly, you have no evidence to back up your claims.

Wealth distribution is not the topic here. Why don't you start a thread?

a reply to: Gryphon66

The point is that he promised it.

Surely you can see the link between black people living better today then before Obama came to office is relative to the blm movement.

Either we are better of after having him as president in the race relations department or we are not.

If we take the word of many they will claim no progress and things are the same.

I think the blm overreacts and does not count all the facts when deciding such but one thing is for sure the chance for change was givin.

What is the goals of a group that seems to openly ignore murder unless racial elements are involved.

originally posted by: Gryphon66



Most welfare and social service funds go to white people in Red states.

Time Magazine (and a host of other sources)

New York Times (told ya!)

I will post on your sources in a little while, but I would first like to say that I think you know when others were talking about welfare they were talking about poor black communities. Of course there are blacks doing well, but Ketsuko is clearly talking about those communities in poverty and single parents. This is where almost all of the violence against blacks (both by cops and others) is occurring.

If your contention is that the majority of blacks are financially well off, then why is black violent crime so disproportional?

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Edumakated

I really tire of the argument that EVERY murder in this country should have a media circus surrounding them to legitimize the various social movements like Black Lives Matter. It's silly and nonsensical.

You are oblivious to the fact that each and every single one of those who did have a media circus had one thing in common. White cop black perp/victim.

This makes it obvious it isn't about black lives matter but about hating on whitey. This becomes obvious when we look at the actions demanded by the activists. Its always about revenge and putting the perceived white devil down, getting him fired, getting him sued, getting him jailed. There is zero talk on what blacks and the police can do in order to reduce the deaths of interaction with police. They feel entitled to challenge the authority of the state and it not going badly for them. In each and ever case the perp was non compliant except for one where a rookie panicked. Did they deserve to die? No, but if you challenge the law its a possible outcome.

Whites put the Marshal putting the bandit down on a pedestal not the bandit.

a reply to: Grambler

No, clearly if I thought that your equitable rephrasing what the other poster was talking about, I wouldn't have bothered to post. There were no comments indicating that there are many Black communities that are thriving and doing well.

Perhaps you should go back and read the post yourself.

The indications among many here makes zero distinction that the unending (and untrue) garbage about "welfare queens and thugs" are the exceptions rather than the rule in the Black community. No where (including here, including in Ketsuko's diatribe) is there any indication that these horrible statistics and crime-ridden areas are not basically universal.

I took exception to that crass over-generalization, stated why and gave evidence for my statements.

I have not ever said that the majority of Black Americans are "well-off." You apparently are not a very careful reader.

What I have said is that there are many communities across this country that are doing as well as any other communities, that are NOT crime-ridden, single-parent cesspools as many here try to claim.

Post whatever you like that is factual about any sources and I'll be glad to discuss it with you.

You're going to have to be more specific about what crime you're referring to ... I'm not going to gesture at wild vagaries.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Gryphon66

The point is that he promised it.

Surely you can see the link between black people living better today then before Obama came to office is relative to the blm movement.

Either we are better of after having him as president in the race relations department or we are not.

If we take the word of many they will claim no progress and things are the same.

I think the blm overreacts and does not count all the facts when deciding such but one thing is for sure the chance for change was givin.

What is the goals of a group that seems to openly ignore murder unless racial elements are involved.

1. If it were anything close to the topic, I'd ask you to quote Mr. Obama in context for the "wealth distribution" schtick.

2. Are you for real? Of course you are. No, I do not see a link between Black Americans doing well (many have been doing so for decades) and I certainly see no relationship between that fact, the Obama Administration and Black Lives Matter.

Your prejudice if not ignorance is on full display here. Are you actually contending that the successes that Black Americans enjoy are all because of Obama giving them

3. Who here is talking about Obama and whatever you mean by "race relations" ... not me.

4. More vague BS ... what is "the word of many" who are claiming "no progress."

5. BLM overreacts? Okay. Too bad everyone doesn't give every aspect of life the deep consideration that you do.

6. What group openly ignores murder?

originally posted by: Gryphon66


No, clearly if I thought that your equitable rephrasing what the other poster was talking about, I wouldn't have bothered to post. There were no comments indicating that there are many Black communities that are thriving and doing well.

Perhaps you should go back and read the post yourself.

He didn't say all black communities, but I will concede here he did say most communities, and I don't believe that is the case. I think that most reasonable people would still agree with the point that there is a problem in certain black communities with not having fathers around.

The indications among many here makes zero distinction that the unending (and untrue) garbage about "welfare queens and thugs" are the exceptions rather than the rule in the Black community. No where (including here, including in Ketsuko's diatribe) is there any indication that these horrible statistics and crime-ridden areas are not basically universal.

I took exception to that crass over-generalization, stated why and gave evidence for my statements.

Fair enough. I understand your frustration with broad generalizations. I wonder why you didn't also condemn the statement that 99% of white people hate blacks though.

I have not ever said that the majority of Black Americans are "well-off." You apparently are not a very careful reader.

What I have said is that there are many communities across this country that are doing as well as any other communities, that are NOT crime-ridden, single-parent cesspools as many here try to claim.

I agree with you that these communities exist. This is sort of against the narrative that you hear from many BLM supporters though, who claim that blacks are disproportionately poor. Do you feel that blacks are disproportionately poor?

Post whatever you like that is factual about any sources and I'll be glad to discuss it with you.

I don't want to derail the thread but the jist of it is even your source (the Time one) admits blacks disproportionately get more entitlements.

You're going to have to be more specific about what crime you're referring to ... I'm not going to gesture at wild vagaries.

Violent crime. The DOJ numbers for 2012-2013 (the most recent I could find) show that blacks are responsible for 22.4% of violent crime.

www.vdare.com...

Here is the FBI stats from 2012 that show blacks committed 49.4% of murders, 32.5% of rape, and 54.9% of robberies among many other things.

www.fbi.gov...

a reply to: Grambler

wonder why you didn't also condemn the statement that 99% of white people hate blacks though.

Thought I would drop in and condemn that statement, if you please. I saw it and started to say something earlier, but I didn't. I don't even remember who made the comment, but's it's complete BS, and whoever believes that is hanging out with a bad crowd. The Klan, maybe?

The comment is a lie posted by a racist, clearly.

BLM is kinda trash. Instead it should be All lives matter. Because they do. Not this half assed BLM.

Remember when this all started. When that one black guy was shot for not doing what the officer told him to do. Unfortunately I don't remember that guys name, but a video surfaced up of him beating a poor veteran in a wheelchair. He was with his friends and all he did was make fun of, push and shove. Even knocking out the poor guy on the floor.

And this is the guy the community wanted to protect...

a reply to: Grambler

He's a she as far as I know. (Ketsuko)

Not having a father is a problem whenever that happens, although, not insurmountable with love and support from the family one does have.

LOL ... why did you respond to me and not someone else? We respond to what we respond to. 99% of white people hating Blacks is such obvious BS that my mind probably glanced off it. Besides, there are plenty of folks correcting that and standing up for Whites in the thread.

We can use statistics to prove just about anything. BLM supporters say lots of things. We'd have to be more specific about the given stats you want to review; but in general I will observe that yes, if one were only considering poverty level compared with racial population proportion ... disproportionate wouldn't be wrong. Again, specifics.

We'll agree not to agree. The Time article and the Times article are really clear in what they say.

As noted, I think you would agree that statistics must be used with care when looking for the truth.

In regard to the stats you listed, I'd have these general observations (and I'm being brief): are Blacks more likely to be arrested? when convicted, are Blacks more likely to be incarcerated? Are the conviction rates equitable? Not only that, these factors to whatever extent they exist (I don't have data on that) would multiply against each other.

Also from the first table in your first link:

Black on white crime is at 13.7% of total crimes. That's basically equal to the overall population percentage of Blacks (Seems reasonable).

White on black crime is at 10.4% of total crimes. That seems anomalous. I'd have to do more detailed research. Very statistically near the Black on White crime however.

Hispanics commit fewer crimes against their own race (38.6%) than either Whites (56%) or Blacks (62.2%) ... that makes general sense given the truly strong community bonds I have witnessed among Hispanics that I know.

Etc. etc.

Sorry I can't make a grand sweeping statement based on the data you offered, but I hope I gave you an honest answer.

I just wanted to thank everyone for contributing to the thread. Sorry I've been MIA, but sometimes earning a living tends to interfere with posting on ATS. I didn't expect such a robust discussion, but glad people are commenting. I apologize if I didn't reply to any specific person. Don't take offense, nor should you assume it is because you got me... I don't have enough time to address each and every comment. Regardless, even if I disagree vehemently with some of the responses, I'm always enjoy a good discussion.

I just wanted to make a few follow up points and address some comments responses I have seen.

1) I'm black. Grew up in middle class majority black neighborhood. Even graduated from an HBCU. I get sick of people assuming I am not black because I don't parrot liberal talking points. So please stop the racist accusations.

2) Yeah, I accused many black leaders of buck dancing and bojangling. I've been called everything under the sun for refusing to follow liberal logic - coon, Uncle Tom, Sellout, etc. Accused of acting white because I actually wanted to do well in school. I guess if I flip the script and call these minstrel leaders out for what they are then all of a sudden people's feelings get hurt. Tough.

3) The BLM movement is a joke. To run around crying about police misconduct as if it is national emergency when black folks are killed by hundreds every week across the country by other blacks is just stupid. As a black father, I'm more concerned about my child being killed by one of these feral fatherless thugs running around in the hood than a cop. The statistics don't lie. The BLM movement is like going to the doctor with two ailments - an ingrown toenail and cancer. You spend all your time worrying about the ingrown toenail while ignoring the cancer. Everyone else is telling you to hell with your toe as you have bigger issues, but you insist on bringing attention to the toe instead of addressing the cancer.

4) The black community wants to believe that racism is a major factor in our lives. It simply is not. The black community has been trained by liberals to believe that all our failures can be explained by slavery and racism. Have I experienced racism before? Yes. Has it stopped me from being successful? No.

5) I firmly believe that the issues in the black community stem from the 75% out of wedlock birth rate. The disproportionate violence by black males is because there simply are no male role models showing these young boys how to be MEN. Despite black women buying into the liberal feminist clap trap that they don't need a man, no woman can teach a boy how to be a man.

a reply to: Edumakated

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but this thread does nothing to stop violence of any kind. It only gives the closet bigots a place to spit their misconceptions about the black community.

I know plenty of men that were raised by single moms. Relationships don't always work out. Better to get out of a bad relationship than stay simply for appearances.

And all this liberal bashing and name calling makes it hard to even take you serious. Anyway, I can believe you were called those names like Uncle Tom and sellout. I don't approve of it, buts it's easy to see why.

Enjoy your stars, but don't lose your soul over them.

a reply to: Edumakated

How is it that "liberals" have so much power over the Black community in your estimation? I mean, it sounds like we've got powers of mind-control or something. Are you saying you think Blacks are more susceptible to manipulation than others? If so, why?

I mean, just in this short summary you've claimed that liberals provide talking points to Blacks for them to parrot (except for you), you've been mistreated because of "liberal logic" (by whom, conservatives? liberal thugs?) etc. etc.

In regard to wondering if you actually are African American, please, the internet is for the most part totally anonymous. You mention that you're Black almost every time you post. Being Black (or not) doesn't make your opinions right or wrong, and it is hardly racist to wonder if someone on the anonymous internet is telling the truth. Right?

I don't think anybody's feelings are "hurt" by your crass comment about buck-dancing. Sounds like racist BS and discredited anything you say regardless of your race or your political beliefs ... but don't flatter yourself; I don't think anyone is "hurt" as much as disgusted.

Yep. You've made it clear what you think of BLM. That's your opinion which is just an opinion whether you are Black, White or Checkered. Why does your opinion count for more than anyone elses on the issue?

I'm glad if you haven't experienced a lot of racism. That is not everyone's experience, and it's unreasonable for you to base everyone's experience on yours. Again, not to put too fine an edge on it, you seem to be implying that Blacks are so gullible and susceptible to "liberal training" as to claim racism when there is none, and to abandon the value of their lives for the same reason.

Shame on you for that BS, whatever your race.

"No woman can teach a boy how to be a man." I'm going to leave that one right where it is. Not surprised after the buckdancing comment.

Honestly, the only one I see here that's been "brainwashed" regarding liberals is you. You're blaming them and your own race for all the problems that are faced by Black America. That may be your opinion, but the facts don't bare that out.

And your opinion is just another opinion, after all ... it doesn't matter that you're Black, right?

a reply to: Edumakated

nm

a reply to: Delteis

It means Black Lives Matter TOO. It's not trash, and it's a worthy cause.

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: Edumakated

How is it that "liberals" have so much power over the Black community in your estimation? I mean, it sounds like we've got powers of mind-control or something. Are you saying you think Blacks are more susceptible to manipulation than others? If so, why?

I mean, just in this short summary you've claimed that liberals provide talking points to Blacks for them to parrot (except for you), you've been mistreated because of "liberal logic" (by whom, conservatives? liberal thugs?) etc. etc.

In regard to wondering if you actually are African American, please, the internet is for the most part totally anonymous. You mention that you're Black almost every time you post. Being Black (or not) doesn't make your opinions right or wrong, and it is hardly racist to wonder if someone on the anonymous internet is telling the truth. Right?

I don't think anybody's feelings are "hurt" by your crass comment about buck-dancing. Sounds like racist BS and discredited anything you say regardless of your race or your political beliefs ... but don't flatter yourself; I don't think anyone is "hurt" as much as disgusted.

Yep. You've made it clear what you think of BLM. That's your opinion which is just an opinion whether you are Black, White or Checkered. Why does your opinion count for more than anyone elses on the issue?

I'm glad if you haven't experienced a lot of racism. That is not everyone's experience, and it's unreasonable for you to base everyone's experience on yours. Again, not to put too fine an edge on it, you seem to be implying that Blacks are so gullible and susceptible to "liberal training" as to claim racism when there is none, and to abandon the value of their lives for the same reason.

Shame on you for that BS, whatever your race.

"No woman can teach a boy how to be a man." I'm going to leave that one right where it is. Not surprised after the buckdancing comment.

Honestly, the only one I see here that's been "brainwashed" regarding liberals is you. You're blaming them and your own race for all the problems that are faced by Black America. That may be your opinion, but the facts don't bare that out.

And your opinion is just another opinion, after all ... it doesn't matter that you're Black, right?

"How is it that "liberals" have so much power over the Black community in your estimation? I mean, it sounds like we've got powers of mind-control or something. Are you saying you think Blacks are more susceptible to manipulation than others? If so, why?"

This answer is a little complicated. When you consider that 90% or so of blacks vote for Democrats, one can only conclude that we are brainwashed, particularly when you consider that if you really examine Democrat positions they actually hurt the black community the most. Especially when you also factor in that it was pretty much the Democrat party doing all the racist stuff! Who would have thought 90% of blacks would be voting for the party of segregation, bull connor, the klan, etc?

Democrats have become quite adept at using racism to deflect away from the affects their policies have had on the black community. They are like magicians. They get you to focus on the left hand while the right hand is taking your watch. Democrats use racism to take attention away from what a disaster their policies have been to the black community. Pay no attention to the schools. Pay no attention to the illegal immigration. Pay no attention to the lack of jobs. All your problems are because of racism and unless you vote for Democrats, you'll be back in chains. Isn't that what Joe Biden said?

Blacks fear racism more than anything because of the history we've had in this country. It is like having an irrational fear you can't get over even though the threat is long gone. Democrats use that fear against us, but their policies really show what they think of the black community. Unfortunately, since we vote for them 90% of the time, we really can't hold them accountable and too scared to try the other party out.

The black community is really communal in nature. This is why such emphasis is put on "black leaders". Democrats figured this out. So what they'e done is allow a few buck dancing, bojangling leaders to enrich themselves as a reward for corralling the black community to vote for Democrats. The black community just follows along. Go to any black church around election time, it might as well be a Democrat rally, but hey, don't tell the IRS that...

CNN ran a story today about the Tyshawn Lee shooting. Here is their article from yesterday - CNN. But I did have CNN on this morning and caught a discussion about this shooting.

Think someone at CNN is trolling ATS to meet the challenges of not reporting such shootings?

originally posted by: HorusChrist
crime will decrease when economy improves

This is true, good luck figuring out when that is. But I will say this - violent crime and crime in general has been dropping even through the 2008-2010 rough period.

I personally think we are heading for a Depression like collapse in the near future. Crime will obviously go up as people have to survive. Although, the government could wise up and pay people to not work... I definitely see that option coming.