How exactly was Jesus' crucifixion a sacrifice?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Yes, on one level, or rather the process of conscious thought, the observer's universe or the experienced or perceived universe. Thing is that it is all matter governed by its stored electric and similar powers and forces, and it can be manipulated with extraordinary results. Change the structure of matter, like if you could change the paths of the electrons in certain atoms or groups of atoms, within a limited place, lets say inside the reactor core of an anti-gravity drive for some new cross-continental airliner or some shuttle travelling between Earth and Mars-- you could make Jesus walk on much more than water, you could have him floating in mid-air with his magic para-magnetic belt buckle. I perceive an infinite reality in an infinite channels or densities and an infinite numbers of players or lifeforms, or rather lives, mirrors in mirrors sort of stuff only this is the ultimate hall of mirrors, complete with smoke and cantrip action, it is so huge the universes have to expand in ever accelerating speeds and shapes and directions, morphing back and forth into itself then unchardered space, crossing into other universes, then all of a sudden it's something completely different, a whole new reality concept, a universe smashing into existence in an instant existing ahead of itself and beyond into eternity, dude, cosmos is all matter, the different multiverses exists on different channels. But like you say, it's powered by will and genius.

Conscious thought; as the observer that of the ego personality or WE in human school are gaining "individuation" for our soul progression. The point is to be aware of our journey. I am certain that the Gnostic schools held secrets being able to change particulate matter; affect "miracles" slight of hand manuveours. Our overseers, or genetic manipulators do not know who God is (or what created them either). Mirrors upon mirrors as you say Noah. Jesus could easily have been puppet mastered. Combine human will with faith and a bit of magic can effect a paradigm change. I value you as a friend and great contributor to this website. You as an Assyrian/Sumerian and myself as ancient past life Maya make for good companions.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Truth is, if you'd been there watching Jesus, I think you'd all be awfully disappointed. The «wine» he served in his wedding was nothing but pure water accompanied by a speech about the properties of water, «water is the new wine» sort of statement, and the speech was so good that the father-in-law saluted it. Jesus was a carpenter, so his walking on water war probably just a boat. No magic healing, they used traditional cures Jesus might've picked up during his backpacker journeys to the East. Truth is he was the unknown son of the lost prince of Egypt, Caesarion, the lost son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra Ptolemy.

To die for anything is a sacrifice.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Truth is, if you'd been there watching Jesus, I think you'd all be awfully disappointed. The «wine» he served in his wedding was nothing but pure water accompanied by a speech about the properties of water, «water is the new wine» sort of statement, and the speech was so good that the father-in-law saluted it. Jesus was a carpenter, so his walking on water war probably just a boat. No magic healing, they used traditional cures Jesus might've picked up during his backpacker journeys to the East. Truth is he was the unknown son of the lost prince of Egypt, Caesarion, the lost son of Julius Caesar and Cleopatra Ptolemy.

holy crap

a reply to: EternalSolace

Yes, but he didn't die at Golgatha, he was saved by a band of shenanigans, eh?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
I cannot confirm this statement of yours (very interesting); I have a different scenario of the same event but just as plausible/implausible; the incubation of the 'Christ Conscious Spirit' in the Maya Temple of the Sun before incarnation. There are many versions of the same event just as there are many versions of you living simultaneously. Awesome, strange and wonderful at the same time. Why can we not all have a different remembering of critical events past and ALL OF THEM be true (who do you think Jesus was)?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I believe the father of Jesus was not the donor, but I think Gravity was his father and that he was delivered with a caesarian section. This can be easily done with a consenting virgin, and might have explained the whole virgin birth God being the Father and all that crap. I believed they took old Caesarion's (old Joseph from the Nativity as opposed to the Joseph Mary later married and had James and the other children with) seed and planted it inside young Mary while keeping her intact. This would explain Jesus' power issues (the whole world in his hands, eh?) and also why he paraded as the new Caesar, and pay your Roman taxes and turn the other cheek. And a bunch of other stuff, like how every time Jesus meets legionaries the near worship him. The demon Legion runs in to certain death by Jesus' command; who commands legions and owns nearly the entire world?

a reply to: Ghost147

Let's first determine what a "sacrifice" meant to the Jewish authors/culture that it was written by in the first century. What was the historical understanding of a sacrifice to them? What was Daniel speaking about when Gabriel told him the Messiah would make atonement for iniquity?

Let's start there, what they understood and the message they were trying to convey to the readers of their written works.

a reply to: Ghost147
He was likely killed as a sacrifice to the state so that his followers wouldn't be persecuted by the state. In other words he made a plea deal with the Roman government and probably pled guilty to all charges against him. After all he was merely just a random, crazy Jewish cult leader to them. His followers probably knew and understood this, but through subsequent retellings of the story, it probably got blown VASTLY blown out of proportion until we have what we have today.

Either that or the story is fake.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: EternalSolace

Yes, but he didn't die at Golgatha, he was saved by a band of shenanigans, eh?

If He didn't die that day at Golgotha I can't see how the events of that day would have changed the course of human history like it has. Even Islam, if Muhammad wouldn't have met an angelic presence in the cave it wouldn't be a major religion in the world today.

Supernatural events transform the globe, not mundane normal ones.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

I see someone needs to perform a reality check. Jesus didn't die, the Gospel shows he survived.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

The gospels said He was resurrected from the dead after three days. That's what they say, so either reject that or believe it. That's your choice in this life.

a reply to: NOTurTypical

He didn't die at Golgotha, he had died by the hands of John the Baptist and received God's mercy in the shape of a Dove several years earlier, remember? The soldiers at Calvary respected that and healed Jesus who was unconscious after being unable to breathe further. Jesus' tension pneumothorax was addressed by piercing Jesus chest to extract hemothorax and allow for further respiration, before he was rushed to a secure location. The Roman officer was supposedly, according to tradition— later trialled for having let a death convict (Jesus) escape his death penalty (crucifixion).

Every time the word translated Dead in the crucifixion scene appears elsewhere in the Bible, these dead people all wake up. So it should really read unconscious. Jesus certainly treated these cases as people being merely unconscious. Or how Jesus explains this condition in Matthew 9:24: «not dead but sleeping».

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

That's pure fantasy.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Youre really only providing your opinion based on how YOU would write a hero out of a struggle. No evidence, very shaky at best.

Legions as far as the demons had nothing to do with Roman allegiance, its a form of measurement applied to a group.

Legion means "a hell of a lot more than you standing here. Be afraid!!! BOO!"

a reply to: Butterfinger

Wasn't a typical Roman legion composed of 12,000 soldiers?

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Utna: I believe the father of Jesus was not the donor, but I think Gravity was his father and that he was delivered with a caesarian section. This can be easily done with a consenting virgin, and might have explained the whole virgin birth God being the Father and all that crap.

So you are saying the "idea" was not carried out in the heavy Time Space Illusion; a pattern was mimicked and was sold or purported to be a 'real physical event that changed human behavior? This was an overlay adjustment; the only way to turn a non physical idea into something tangible/believable is an event that never really happened at all but EVERYONE BELIEVES DID. Thought forms will create matter; color it. Old Joseph crypt master of Abraham; yes I see what you are referring to. Not sure Mary was the Mother of James or any of the other children. I think Jesus was an overlay thought form not real to change that paradigm of Roman occupation and the handshake with Jewish Paganism. I would like to believe Jesus was a human being; that he has a surviving family and resulting bloodline; but all evidence of such is non existent.

Utna: This would explain Jesus' power issues (the whole world in his hands, eh?) and also why he paraded as the new Caesar, and pay your Roman taxes and turn the other cheek. And a bunch of other stuff, like how every time Jesus meets legionaries the near worship him. The demon Legion runs in to certain death by Jesus' command; who commands legions and owns nearly the entire world?

Compared to other Prophets Jesus's physical existence of 33 years is miniscule to a Melchizedek or a Noah or an Abraham This was so rigged and unfair. This/his ministry???! laughable in the length of time allowed to accomplish it.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
To die for anything is a sacrifice.

Including YOUR OWN natural death you have absolutely no idea the When or the circumstances of Which happens, yet confident it is a sacrifice (to who's Ego). Shaking off the 70's here.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Jesus was born 6 BC and the crucifixion happened when Tiberius died in 37 AD, or perhaps what went wrong was that they did it the year before, when Rome sent out false messages that Tiberius was dead or dying. So Jesus wasn't 33, he was older than 42. Besides, Jesus was merely unconscious at Golgatha, whatever happened after, who knows, there were Zealots among his followers, so... Masada? And John claims he came visiting in Patmos in the mid 60's?

a reply to: Ghost147

If you faced crucifixion you would sing a different tune.