How exactly was Jesus' crucifixion a sacrifice?

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: Ghost147
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Cogito, Ergo Sum

Ghost147: The issue with this scenario is the fact that Jesus is eternal. Yes, he became human for 30ish years, and was dying for about 6 hours. But, in the span of infinity, and eternity (which is is real life-span, if you can call it that), those 30 years and those 6 hours amount to nothing at all

Jesus became a human *incarnated*; just as you incarnated. Jesus's soul/spirit is eternal, just as yours are exactly the same. Time is irrelevant.

Can you elaborate? Why is time irrelevant in the grand scope of things?

30 years on this world to an eternal god, whom exists outside of time and space, is quite literally nothing.

originally posted by: Ghost147
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

Ghost147: The issue with this scenario is the fact that Jesus is eternal. Yes, he became human for 30ish years, and was dying for about 6 hours. But, in the span of infinity, and eternity (which is is real life-span, if you can call it that), those 30 years and those 6 hours amount to nothing at all

vhb: Jesus became a human *incarnated*; just as you incarnated. Jesus's soul/spirit is eternal, just as yours are exactly the same. Time is irrelevant.

Ghost147: Can you elaborate? Why is time irrelevant in the grand scope of things? 30 years on this world to an eternal god, whom exists outside of time and space, is quite literally nothing.

Within the concept of 'eternal/forever' (not of the material); existence in a linear time does not exist. This is an 'earth' construct and is based upon the 3D material experience; so automatically has a maximum amount of years before that physical body 'spirit' inhabits wears out or erodes *your body wears out* and your soul/spirit, as not a physical thing to begin with goes back to your origin or place card held on behalf of your individual higher selves schooling you (enlightenment progression of the soul).

I must say this has been a lively discussion as it should be .....it testifies to the importance of the subject at hand. Now since the latest issue within this thread seems to be the omnipotence of God let me just say that the omnipotence of God was displayed in the establishing of the boundaries and parameters of our current existence ( Not His interventions within them ). Although he does allow randomness to exist to its maximum extent within the current parameters he showed his omnipotence in establishing the limits and boundaries of those parameters thereby limiting and preventing our ability to destroy on a universal level but he does want to maximize the amount of energy and diversity of that energy within the current set of parameters.
That is why in my opinion he created good and evil..... which he does claim to have done. it is the play and interplay of good and evil that maximizes the randomness and diversity of experience within this current set of parameters. this is why in my opinion Jesus says it is "necessary" that offenses come.
Now in response to a question asked by a poster way back in the thread they asked how one man could pay for the sins of billions of billions of people the answer to that is given in the Bible and it is quite logical because one man's sin (Adam) put the billions and billions of people into the position that they are in... there for it is just that one man's righteousness should save all men ( Although some by eternal fire )

Also I think it should be pointed out at this time that the whole premise of this thread is wrong and if everyone who is familiar with the Bible will recall....the most popular and well-known verse in the Bible is this.... For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. now if you want to go talk to this God that you do not think is omnipotent and try to convince him that him giving his son is not a sacrifice..... go for it.... but remember this... he is both good and evil and he is perfect in both. And the devil herself should desire his mercy to see if he truly saves unto the uttermost ...all that call upon him. For no flesh can abide His terrors. it is the energy signature created by the crucifixion both from the God end and the Son end that creates the buffer( on energy particle level ) for evil to be absorbed and dissipated. for he goeth before us always ...and preparest us a way.

originally posted by: HarryJoy
I must say this has been a lively discussion as it should be .....it testifies to the importance of the subject at hand. Now since the latest issue within this thread seems to be the omnipotence of God let me just say that the omnipotence of God was displayed in the establishing of the boundaries and parameters of our current existence.

That is faith based and has no real factual affirmation.

HarryJoy: Although he does allow randomness to exist to its maximum extent within the current parameters he showed his omnipotence in establishing the limits and boundaries of those parameters thereby limiting and preventing our ability to destroy on a universal level but he does want to maximize the amount of energy and diversity of that energy within the current set of parameters.

IT; the AUO has no choice but to allow randomness as is a binary information based system made up of 1s and 0s. No thought process here, no omnipotence, no ability to decide what good vs evil is or love vs hate. We are speaking instead of the Demi-Gods?

HarryJoy: That is why in my opinion he created good and evil..... which he does claim to have done. it is the play and interplay of good and evil that maximizes the randomness and diversity of experience within this current set of parameters. this is why in my opinion Jesus says it is "necessary" that offenses come.

The AUO allows for everything as it is on a path to know everything it can potentially create and assimilate.

HarryJoy: Now in response to a question asked by a poster way back in the thread they asked how one man could pay for the sins of billions of billions of people the answer to that is given in the Bible and it is quite logical because one man's sin (Adam) put the billions and billions of people into the position that they are in... there for it is just that one man's righteousness should potentially free all men.

One man cannot; certainly one as pristine as the Jesus Format (taking all sins of mankind to be forgiven forever more) would allow ALL men ever after (his sacrifice) to be forgiven of their most heinous crimes (a free for all; all new wars forgiven, strife/inhumanity to man). Did Jesus forgive all mans past sins ending at is death or absolve all sins committed in the future as well?

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
Within the concept of 'eternal/forever' (not of the material); existence in a linear time does not exist. This is an 'earth' construct and is based upon the 3D material experience; so automatically has a maximum amount of years before that physical body 'spirit' inhabits wears out or erodes *your body wears out* and your soul/spirit, as not a physical thing to begin with goes back to your origin or place card held on behalf of your individual higher selves schooling you (enlightenment progression of the soul).

I'm not quite sure how that invalidates my previous statement. Are you trying to say that eternal life and our universes time- demention cannot be compared?

a reply to: HarryJoy

Well put Harry

Although I'm a bit confused about a few things. You state that god allows a certain level of randomness, do you mean that he can switch off his omniscience to some degree (or entirely)?

a reply to: Ghost147

god is the original hamlet. "to be, or not to be". disgustingly convenient as a plot device.

there is no evidence to say that god has omnipotence/omniscience, let alone evidence to say that he can turn it on and off at will. that is begging the question and only hypothetically plausible...if it can be said to be plausible at all.

Not really a "sacrifice" in the sense as in let's kill him and offer him up so god will accept Gentiles.

More so a sacrafice as in when Jews went astray in the valley of hinnom(spelling?) and started killing babies. This practice had continued by various little groups with multiple recordings In history where a couple male news found a Christian child and would remove the blood until death. Jesus was a sacrifice in that nature. Like in hinnom where you should love the babies as they should of loved Jesus but instead wanted him dead for their own lack in the face of god.



a reply to: Ghost147

a reply to: Johnathanandheather

I see. So not a 'Sacrifice' As in an act of giving up something valued for the sake of something else regarded as more important or worthy.

But more so a 'Sacrifice' with the definition of: an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to God or to a divine or supernatural figure.

they thought back then you always had to sacrifice something to get something so that's why they sacrificed children and animals to get rain for example. The story about adam and eve explained why god created misery for people. Jesus was a lamb of god so they sacrificed him instead of lambs. My question is, ok so why does misery still exist. Was Jesus' sacrifice not enough? What was the point . . .

a reply to: HorusChrist

If they really had a point, we would not have this and many other discussions today...

Collection and stories collected really don't have meaning, nor do have any moral/learning values... but sounded impressive 2000 years ago..

originally posted by: [post=19977759]Ghost147[/post
originally posted by: vethumanbeing

vhb: Within the concept of 'eternal/forever' (not of the material); existence in a linear time does not exist. This is an 'earth' construct and is based upon the 3D material experience; so automatically has a maximum amount of years before that physical body 'spirit' inhabits wears out or erodes *your body wears out* and your soul/spirit, as not a physical thing to begin with goes back to your origin or place card held on behalf of your individual higher selves schooling you (enlightenment progression of the soul).

Goost147: I'm not quite sure how that invalidates my previous statement. Are you trying to say that eternal life and our universes time- demention cannot be compared?

Sure, they all can; with ONE EXCEPTION: the third dimension, which is the only one "heavy matter" (carbon/silicon) based and exists in linear time. The souls here inhabit/ animate the creatures; while within the other *dimensions* do not require or have physical bodies that will rot (Happy Halloween).

a reply to: vethumanbeing

What dimensions are these based on? The third dimension, as we know it, is depth (the z-axis), and gives all objects a sense of area and a cross-section, not actual matter, though. Are you basing this concept off of any particular belief?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Ghost147

god is the original hamlet. "to be, or not to be". disgustingly convenient as a plot device.

there is no evidence to say that god has omnipotence/omniscience, let alone evidence to say that he can turn it on and off at will. that is begging the question and only hypothetically plausible...if it can be said to be plausible at all.

I think God as Shakespeare can turn it off; as in stop writing any more missives and begin this entire process all over again somewhere else under entirely different circumstances. As its program is to obtain knowledge (grow itself) will seek other avenues rather than what it may perceive is a dead end. One way this can happen is to allow mankind to bring itself to the brink of destruction; observe that inevitability and start over somewhere else (perhaps here). For an information gathering system; this is just another experiment that failed to be tried again and learned from; recreated in a better format. This has happened over and over; smaller civilizations throughout history. Nothing quite this large in population will have failed so catastrophically since the dinosaurs.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: vethumanbeing

What dimensions are these based on? The third dimension, as we know it, is depth (the z-axis), and gives all objects a sense of area and a cross-section, not actual matter, though. Are you basing this concept off of any particular belief?

There are many disciplines that describe the same thing. Some call it the path of enlightenment; some explain how the spirit/soul from the ninth comes into base form down stepping the dimensional ladder; then transgresses from that material form to rejoin the creator. Another actually calls out the names of those beings that are our Demigods living in the 4th, 5th, and 6th; sound and light being the 7th and 8th. The first and second are simple awareness, rocks, trees or animal instincts describe these in the most base form.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

What I'm asking is, where are you getting this information from?

a reply to: Ghost147

The Church is evil and St. Paul is their evil prophet.

Why would a world wide institution focus of the good lord's utter failure and fall, when his corpus of thought is so vast, and teaches us NEVER to sacrifice anything. Still people keeps quoting St. Paul saying Jesus was a sacrifice that cleansed original sin. That is human sacrifice, the sacrifice of a life that eats meat and have smelly feet with toes. It's disgusting. And trust me, that is the opinion of the good lord himself. Just quit it. Stop displaying Jesus' failure as victory. His victory wasn't dying at some staurus, it was surviving it that was his victory. And he didn't leave to Heaven. He went North. Text is clear. He went to live with his maternal family, in Britannia, possibly in Oban, Caledionia. There is a sacred trail and his grave is there.

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: vethumanbeing

What I'm asking is, where are you getting this information from?

Esoteric knowledge?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim
Christ Consciousness (as hoped) was an insert idea form failed to unite the world; (heal the inhumanity to man) because Islam was introduced as the ying to the yang; polarizing factions to promote rapid change; no thought given that this may destroy all things created on this living library called earth. It seemed at the time a good experiment to conduct and observe fallout that could be contained or a reasonable reconciliation between two dogmatic factions. The proxy's for THIS War are the Jews vs the Palestinians. There are other metaphorical conflicts playing out as well in other parts of the world.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: vethumanbeing

What I'm asking is, where are you getting this information from?

Esoteric knowledge?

How incredibly discrediting to your position. You might as well just make up whatever you want and offer that as absolute fact. At least with Christians they can show where their concepts come from (the bible).

originally posted by: Ghost147
originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Ghost147: What I'm asking is, where are you getting this information from?

vhb: Esoteric knowledge?

Ghost147: How incredibly discrediting to your position. You might as well just make up whatever you want and offer that as absolute fact. At least with Christians they can show where their concepts come from (the bible).

Everyone has a truth they incarnated with; (assuming reincarnation is the driving force) to progress your individualized soul growth (you have not been jumpstarted upon that path). My truth differs from yours is all; and may have a another agenda. I do not know what organized religions sneaky agendas are (up to) as am not in that belief or a participant.