It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

How exactly was Jesus' crucifixion a sacrifice?

page: 23
32
<< 20  21  22    24  25  26 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 08:04 PM
link   

originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
(I couldn't as me responded in any better a fashion) as you. Nice response as resonated a truth.


Thanks…
I’m pretty sure you could have wordsmithed a response, way better than I could…


I starred you third last post…nice thoughts…
Strange how the facts are there, (sometimes hidden) in bits/parts, but have been distorted over time…Mark Twain Weck lol was right…and so was Dorothy Parker…

“You can’t teach an old dogma new tricks”… lol

- JC

Not regarding your faith and determination my friend. I am of the irreverent type (ironic/satiric) flawed as am in seeking mode (almost have it, the whole thing just beyond reach). Everything hidden forcing one to look further for good reason. "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks" is a perfect analogy to the (forgive me) another's reference to Pauls RCC being the 'Trojan horse'. Nothing stays secret for long as some of us are intractable hunters in validating our truth/reason for being. It all requires faith in oneself and that thing we are attempting to identify with (creator). I am an abandoned latchkey child looking for my creator (beyond that which birthed me parental).
edit on 3-11-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 09:12 PM
link   
a reply to: Joecroft

As far as whether I could use "faith" to believe that it all came about without a creator...yes I could. But as you stated it is hard to argue against pure simple logic. My logic tells me that there is too much design present in life to have come about by happen stance. And "faith" according to the definition you posted requires that there be no logical proof.

Also it seems quite contradictory for someone that has the signature that you do to make such a statement.



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 09:52 PM
link   
So if Jesus came as a sacrifice for Adam's sin... What is Ezekiel 18:19-22 going on about?



Ezekiel 18:19 Yet you ask, 'Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?' Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live.
18:20 The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
18: 21 But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die.
18:22 None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live.


It says right in the Bible that the sons will not be blamed for the sins of the Father. So why is humanity (the literal sons, if Adam really was our ancestor) being blamed for Adam's sin? This verse seems to discredit the entire Jesus sacrifice motif entirely, because it's saying we're only responsible for the good/bad that we do personally.
edit on 3-11-2015 by magnusTT because: added bold



posted on Nov, 3 2015 @ 10:04 PM
link   
So far we have a god who both is and isn't omnipotent. To remove the contradiction and logical absurdity of this, we simply remove all definitions of the word (perhaps not all, only the ones we don't like). Allowing escape to that well worn refuge of religious quasi philosophers, that it is beyond human understanding (whilst at the same time being well enough understood to know that it is so).

We now have god as an indefinable and logically absurd notion, animated via a plea to ignorance...with jesus as his only begotten son.

Deny ignorance.



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 06:30 PM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing


Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Not regarding your faith and determination my friend.



Come on, I don’t have faith, I have knowledge and understanding…you know; “The Knowledge of the Holy”…as I like to call it…

But yes, I was determined; I’ll give you that one…friend!!!




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I am of the irreverent type (ironic/satiric) flawed as am in seeking mode (almost have it, the whole thing just beyond reach).


You’re probably the “irreverent type”, because you are critical of most of the standard “givens” in this world, and can see through the obvious (sometimes glaring lol) errors that others are making etc…

I’m similar, and although I too love a little sarcasm at times, I try not to aim it to harshly towards others…unless done in a humorous and subtle way…

But wait…”you are in seeking mode”…? I thought you secret knowledge Esoteric types, had ALL the answers lol…

Hmmm what is it you’re seeking right now…? Had any visions lately…?





Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Everything hidden forcing one to look further for good reason. "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks" is a perfect analogy to the (forgive me) another's reference to Pauls RCC being the 'Trojan horse'.



It has to be hidden though, to induce self enquiry, the very nature of the game.

Perfect, welllllll…if you say so…not sure about the whole "Trojan horse” theory though…I still think Pauls writings (and attributed writings) were slightly edited/hijacked…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Nothing stays secret for long as some of us are intractable hunters in validating our truth/reason for being. It all requires faith in oneself and that thing we are attempting to identify with (creator).



This is great. At least your not just in it, for the mental calisthenics; as are a genuine seeker of knowledge, and Esoteric Wisdom wherever you may find it…with a “trust it but check it” attitude…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I am an abandoned latchkey child looking for my creator (beyond that which birthed me parental).


AT least you have a key…here’s the trick…you gota pull the snakes head through the keyhole (on your left) towards yourself, clearing the keyhole. Then put the key in the door, turn clockwise (signifying spiralling upwards, towards new knowledge) and then walk through the door…


- JC



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 06:33 PM
link   
He was not a sacrifice because there was nothing to atone for.

God FORGAVE Adam and Eve their Sin, so people are not all born with sin. They are in fact born completely sinless.

And Jesus wasn't killed on the cross anyway, so ... there's that ...



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 06:40 PM
link   
a reply to: HarryJoy



Originally posted by HarryJoy
As far as whether I could use "faith" to believe that it all came about without a creator...yes I could. But as you stated it is hard to argue against pure simple logic.


Yes, logic and intuition can take you far…

Faith can take you in many correct or incorrect directions, if not backed up with knowledge, understanding and logical reasoning…IMO




Originally posted by HarryJoy
My logic tells me that there is too much design present in life to have come about by happen stance.


You’re statement above doesn’t really tell us much…

Because by stating “there is too much design” etc etc…you’ve already pre-concluded, that things came about by design…(albeit maybe with good reason) but that doesn’t really explain why you think/believe/know that to be true, over “happen stance”…

You need to be more specific with the logic you’ve used…

So…

How do you know that design is present…?




Originally posted by HarryJoy
And "faith" according to the definition you posted requires that there be no logical proof.


Yes, but you have already used some form of logical reasoning in your own thought processes so far; e.g. being a part of God etc…

Most decisions that people make entail “differing degrees“ of knowledge. Knowledge helps us to make a decisions one way or another. The “differing degrees“ will of course vary, from person to person…




Originally posted by HarryJoy
Also it seems quite contradictory for someone that has the signature that you do to make such a statement.


Not sure which statement of mine you mean…?

And in your opinion, in what way is it contradictory…please explain…???


- JC



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 06:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum
So far we have a god who both is and isn't omnipotent. To remove the contradiction and logical absurdity of this, we simply remove all definitions of the word (perhaps not all, only the ones we don't like).

Removing the 'Iconic Label GOD' imparted upon a figurative creator is a necessary step to *dehumanize* it and understand what it actually is; certainly not human unless you accept all humans are of its decision to particulate itself and become an expression to define itself. Origin is just a system of binary 1s and 0s needing something more to explain why it exists (information gathering system only). It wants to know why it exists as much as its creation wants to know its own origin. Who is going to come up with the answer first? Is this a race, child informs parent of what it is? Is our progenitor testing us regarding Love (unconditional that goes both ways/child and parentally). I can imagine God thinking this,"My own creations refuse me and for some reason have to themselves prove my immaterial existence in order to acknowledge their existence". Seems like a betrayal; all life: flora, fauna and ecosystems simoultaneously occurred merely by accidental coincidence (barring weather conditions); basically God doesn't exist until we prove it exists. What a horrible thing to have to admit to ones creator; humanity has this much distrust as to not believe you created us and created ITSELF instead by a series of accidental PERFECT circumstances.

edit on 4-11-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2015 @ 08:04 PM
link   
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: vethumanbeing


Joecroft: You’re probably the “irreverent type”, because you are critical of most of the standard “givens” in this world, and can see through the obvious (sometimes glaring lol) errors that others are making etc…

I’m similar, and although I too love a little sarcasm at times, I try not to aim it to harshly towards others…unless done in a humorous and subtle way…
But wait…”you are in seeking mode”…? I thought you secret knowledge Esoteric types, had ALL the answers lol…h
mm what is it you’re seeking right now…? Had any visions lately…?

I just try to help clarify (using my observation to pinpoint or spotlight) what they may have missed in their own argument. Esoteric types know the answers always; as they invented the initial questions eons ago.


vhb:
Everything hidden forcing one to look further for good reason. "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks" is a perfect analogy to the (forgive me) another's reference to Pauls RCC being the 'Trojan horse'.



Joecroft: It has to be hidden though, to induce self enquiry, the very nature of the game.

Perfect, welllllll…if you say so…not sure about the whole "Trojan horse” theory though…I still think Pauls writings (and attributed writings) were slightly edited/hijacked.

Probably (this could be true); I still have grave suspicions of Paul's intent. Wasn't he eventually beheaded; came to a bad end (no one saved him).


vhb:
Nothing stays secret for long as some of us are intractable hunters in validating our truth/reason for being. It all requires faith in oneself and that thing we are attempting to identify with (creator).


Joecroft: This is great. At least your not just in it, for the mental calisthenics; as are a genuine seeker of knowledge, and Esoteric Wisdom wherever you may find it…with a “trust it but check it” attitude…

I thought this was the existential game we all play with gaining esoteric wisdom; step by step, not easy nor meant to be because there are so many different disciplines to accomplish it. Don't choose just one take all that you are aware of and assimilate them into something that makes sense to your being/innate wisdom born with.


vhb:
I am an abandoned latchkey child looking for my creator (beyond that which birthed me parental).



Joecroft: AT least you have a key…here’s the trick…you gota pull the snakes head through the keyhole (on your left) towards yourself, clearing the keyhole. Then put the key in the door, turn clockwise (signifying spiralling upwards, towards new knowledge) and then walk through the door.

I know exactly what this is about (your dream). It has a slightly different messaging; one of the Quabala steps to enlightenment crossed with Job/freemason Path teachings. Interesting that the two are represented as One in your dream.
edit on 4-11-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2015 @ 04:45 PM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I just try to help clarify (using my observation to pinpoint or spotlight) what they may have missed in their own argument. Esoteric types know the answers always; as they invented the initial questions eons ago.


Absolutely; and sometimes the questions are sooo powerful, that they don’t require any answers at all…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Probably (this could be true); I still have grave suspicions of Paul's intent. Wasn't he eventually beheaded; came to a bad end (no one saved him).



“Probably” lol… Wait till you hear my argument/case…

The last thing the Romans/Pharisees (conglomerate) needed, was Paul walking around shouting, “Hey!!!, you guys added/edited/changed my writings”…they took measures/steps to prevent that possibility…

Wait; don’t you have a thread on this very subject…if so, I might just give you my complete (out there) thoughts on it…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I thought this was the existential game we all play with gaining esoteric wisdom; step by step, not easy nor meant to be because there are so many different disciplines to accomplish it. Don't choose just one take all that you are aware of and assimilate them into something that makes sense to your being/innate wisdom born with.


My esoteric wisdom seems to be breaking new ground, reaching heights yet to be written…half the time I feel like some kind of cosmic experiment, to see just how much Wisdom, a mere mortal can handle…and still function normally lol…the sense of humour gift, certainly helps…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
I know exactly what this is about (your dream). It has a slightly different messaging; one of the Quabala steps to enlightenment crossed with Job/freemason Path teachings. Interesting that the two are represented as One in your dream



So I take it the snake motif is in relation to a specific Kabbalah path, while the “Job path teachings”, in connected to the Keyhole or Door…?

Anyway; to bring this slightly on topic with the OP…here’s a beautiful piece of scripture, supposedly in relation to Jesus eventual crucifixion…(prediction)





John…3:14
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,
so the Son of Man must be lifted up ...




I know you “don’t do scripture”, but there’s clearly some Esoteric symbolism going on there…IMO


- JC



posted on Nov, 5 2015 @ 08:34 PM
link   
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: veteranhumanbeing


vhb:
Probably (this could be true); I still have grave suspicions of Paul's intent. Wasn't he eventually beheaded; came to a bad end (no one saved him).



Joecroft: “Probably” lol… Wait till you hear my argument/case…

The last thing the Romans/Pharisees (conglomerate) needed, was Paul walking around shouting, “Hey!!!, you guys added/edited/changed my writings”…they took measures/steps to prevent that possibility…
Wait; don’t you have a thread on this very subject…if so, I might just give you my complete (out there) thoughts on it.

That was after he was beheaded; (retained no publisher rights) apparently a free for all; what Monks can transcribe faster and who is charge of the editing of what should have been many MORE books included in the bible? Why were the original Gnostic texts ignored as being "out there, inflammatory woo woo" no one would understand (those ideas destroyed) by the RCC? These gnostic texts were written by Essenes and found as the dead sea scrolls. Who is this church to have the arrogance to edit and not include The Book of Thomas; Mary..etc.


vhb:
I thought this was the existential game we all play with gaining esoteric wisdom; step by step, not easy nor meant to be because there are so many different disciplines to accomplish it. Don't choose just one take all that you are aware of and assimilate them into something that makes sense to your being/innate wisdom born with.



Joecroft: My esoteric wisdom seems to be breaking new ground, reaching heights yet to be written…half the time I feel like some kind of cosmic experiment, to see just how much Wisdom, a mere mortal can handle…and still function normally lol…the sense of humour gift, certainly helps…

You will be alright; God never gives you anything IT thinks you cannot handle (curses can apply here).




vhb:
I know exactly what this is about (your dream). It has a slightly different messaging; one of the Quabala steps to enlightenment crossed with Job/freemason Path teachings. Interesting that the two are represented as One in your dream



Joecroft: So I take it the snake motif is in relation to a specific Kabbalah path, while the “Job path teachings”, in connected to the Keyhole or Door…?
Anyway; to bring this slightly on topic with the OP…here’s a beautiful piece of scripture, supposedly in relation to Jesus eventual crucifixion…(prediction)

Sure; two snakes travel up the podium you stand before looking at a book open to your name (Janus is the symbol on the cover) bite you simultaneously on both temples. This is DAATH awareness (the unknown). There is always a door involved as you must go through it to the next awareness/enlightenment. The Qabala is the KEY. This is Essene became Templars became Freemason knowledge.



Joecroft: "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,
so the Son of Man must be lifted up" .
I know you “don’t do scripture”, but there’s clearly some Esoteric symbolism going on there…IMO

Its all metaphorical; 'uplifting' is just a code word for manipulating the genetics of the human/lizard.

edit on 5-11-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2015 @ 09:45 PM
link   
Big thread, huh!! I took this subject in college....yezz, but I don't have time to explain right now.....is that cool?



posted on Nov, 5 2015 @ 09:51 PM
link   
a reply to: GBP/JPY
Maybe "Comparative Literature"? (anything and everything applies).


edit on 5-11-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2015 @ 06:15 PM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing



Originally posted by vethumanbeing
That was after he was beheaded;(retained no publisher rights) apparently a free for all; what Monks can transcribe faster and who is charge of the editing of what should have been many MORE books included in the bible?

Why were the original Gnostic texts ignored as being "out there, inflammatory woo woo" no one would understand (those ideas destroyed)by the RCC?


They were ignored by the conglomerate (see previous post) because they had a disliking towards the Essenes and their brand of Ideas; woo woo to some… boo boo lol to others…

The Essenes as one Scholar has shown, were the proto-Christian Gnostics, and I’m pretty sure that the Scholarly evidence for this is fairly concrete.

And another; Bart Ehrman, a distinguished New Testament scholar has shown, that the early Roman Church, didn’t really understand many aspects of the Gnostics theology.




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
These gnostic texts were written by Essenes and found as the dead sea scrolls. Who is this church to have the arrogance to edit and not include The Book of Thomas; Mary..etc.


They had the control and the power, but as Ehrman has shown in his critiques of the various writings against the Gnostics (e.g. “Against Heresies” among many others etc…) they didn't understand the true Gnostic beliefs or their coded language. And because of this they created a new religion, (Christianity) through interpreting metaphorical teachings into literal ones..IMO

They (the Pharisees) were of course already doing something similar with the Old Testament, which is why they had such a long running disdain/misunderstanding for the Essenes, and in a wider sense, Jesus as well…IMO




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
You will be alright; God never gives you anything IT thinks you cannot handle (curses can apply here).


Well, I’m still here…”what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger”, as the saying goes…




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
Sure; two snakes travel up the podium you stand before looking at a book open to your name (Janus is the symbol on the cover) bite you simultaneously on both temples.


You speak as though you’ve already been through this process before…or you’re paraphrasing from some Gnostic/Masonic text book…I wonder which…?

Don’t those pesky snakes know who I am lol (Templeman ancestry etc…) It’s weird though because the snake crawling through that keyhole, seemed pleased to see me…(funny grin on face) I can kind of imagine him/it saying, “Hi there, we’ve been expecting you lol”

And speaking of two snakes, where does the other one (or both) come from…? Don’t tell the snake coming through that keyhole, was coming to bite me on my right temple, while the other snake, was entering the door behind me, (that I’ve already entered)…to bite me of the left temple…Am I close…?




Originally posted by vethumanbeing
This is DAATH awareness (the unknown). There is always a door involved as you must go through it to the next awareness/enlightenment. The Qabala is the KEY. This is Essene became Templars became Freemason knowledge.


Yes, passing through the door to the next enlightenment phase, seems to make a lot of sense to me personally. Snakes are tricky to interpret though, because of their dual nature.

Funny; the Buddha was once attacked by a snake, which rapped itself around his waist, but Buddha through inner strength was able to overcome the snake.

The snake, was soo impressed, that it later became a follower of the Buddha…I guess the moral is, that even the negative aspects of those snakes, can teach us valuable lessons, which help us to move forward…i.e. enlighten us…etc…


- JC



posted on Nov, 6 2015 @ 07:31 PM
link   
originally posted by: Joecroft
a reply to: vethumanbeing


vhb:
That was after he was beheaded;(retained no publisher rights) apparently a free for all; what Monks can transcribe faster and who is charge of the editing of what should have been many MORE books included in the bible?

Why were the original Gnostic texts ignored as being "out there, inflammatory woo woo" no one would understand (those ideas destroyed)by the RCC?



Joecroft They were ignored by the conglomerate (see previous post) because they had a disliking towards the Essenes and their brand of Ideas; woo woo to some… boo boo lol to others…
The Essenes as one Scholar has shown, were the proto-Christian Gnostics, and I’m pretty sure that the Scholarly evidence for this is fairly concrete.

They absolutely were. The ancient Essenes=Templars=Freemasons=Rosy-Cross ideology.


Joecroft: And another; Bart Ehrman, a distinguished New Testament scholar has shown, that the early Roman Church, didn’t really understand many aspects of the Gnostics theology.

How could they; the Pharasse poisoned that well (sect) of Judaism. The Essenes knew this and abandoned Qumran long before the Romans showed in 72 AD. The Essenes were the original Gnostics and left behind the evidence.


Joecroft: They had the control and the power, but as Ehrman has shown in his critiques of the various writings against the Gnostics (e.g. “Against Heresies” among many others etc…) they didn't understand the true Gnostic beliefs or their coded language. And because of this they created a new religion, (Christianity) through interpreting metaphorical teachings into literal ones..IMO

Coded language was critical as could if revealed result in the death of the speaker (that other thing; called the truth of who we are and our creation by others). Jesus was so close to explaining it and was killed to prevent this knowledge from being disseminated.


vhb:
Sure; two snakes travel up the podium you stand before looking at a book open to your name (Janus is the symbol on the cover) bite you simultaneously on both temples.



Joecroft: You speak as though you’ve already been through this process before…or you’re paraphrasing from some Gnostic/Masonic text book…I wonder which…?

I have been through the process, yes. Daaths path to Kether (I took a short cut).


Joecroft: Don’t those pesky snakes know who I am lol (Templeman ancestry etc…) It’s weird though because the snake crawling through that keyhole, seemed pleased to see me…(funny grin on face) I can kind of imagine him/it saying, “Hi there, we’ve been expecting you lol”

Would have shaken hands if had them.


Joecroft: And speaking of two snakes, where does the other one (or both) come from…? Don’t tell the snake coming through that keyhole, was coming to bite me on my right temple, while the other snake, was entering the door behind me, (that I’ve already entered)…to bite me of the left temple…Am I close?

Coiled underneath the podium one is standing before on either side slither up then bite the temples 'templeman'. Your experience with the same metaphor is uniquely individualized and I would think imbued with a very special meaning. Interpretation? I have to think on this.




edit on 6-11-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2015 @ 12:00 PM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Yes, and ironically most quite a few Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians are Jews/Israelis by blood descendence, but Muslims by faith. Most Jews alive today are wither Christians or Muslims. And they all keep fighting till death over a few acres of dust and arid desert. It's a miracle this world has lasted as long as it has with such absurd schisms.
edit on 8-11-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 8 2015 @ 05:16 PM
link   
a reply to: Joecroft

As far as my reasons for believing that design is present...it mostly stems from the fact that not only do humans exist in a world that has all of the necessary parameters ( right atmosphere and climate ) but it also has foods that not only supply our nutritional needs but a great variety of foods that offer us pleasure in the eating of them as well ( which IMO evolution cannot account for). And this doesn't even touch on the examples of irreducible complexity that exist here.

Btw I'm not really sure why you need evidence for this...surely it must be obvious to you ? Or did you really think I was just "parroting" the belief in creation because it is a commonly held Christian belief ?
edit on 8-11-2015 by HarryJoy because: add



posted on Nov, 8 2015 @ 08:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Yes, and ironically most quite a few Palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese and Jordanians are Jews/Israelis by blood descendence, but Muslims by faith. Most Jews alive today are wither Christians or Muslims. And they all keep fighting till death over a few acres of dust and arid desert. It's a miracle this world has lasted as long as it has with such absurd schisms.

In this case, regarding the Palestinians and Jews only one location iconic; Jerusalem (portal). Abraham had two sons that each formatted the different dogmas of Islam and Judaism (what is up with that). Waving at you Utnapisjtim/Noah.
edit on 8-11-2015 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2015 @ 03:04 AM
link   
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I am not talking about Arabs here, though many Palestinians are Arabs. The "Jews" in the nation of Israel, are mainly Caucasian and Slavonic people who converted to Judaism at some point through proselytism and married into Judaism in the Middle Ages. Syrians especially are by far more Jewish genetically than "Jews". Israeli "Jews" are mostly Jews by proselytism and culture, not by blood. And the tiny drop of Jewish blood that runs through their veins typically belong to one of a handful Jewish women who lived in Rome about 1000 years ago. However, Jewish organisations have managed to eradicate nearly all scientific papers describing this genetic bottleneck from the public, since they claim them to be anti-Semitic. Israeli "Jews" are the most anti Semitic peoples on the planet if you ask me. Also, like you mention, Arabs are also very much Semites, even children of Abraham, and often in direct lines. So Israel with its segregation politics and differentiated laws-- is Anti-Semitism put into system on an industrial scale.
edit on 14-11-2015 by Utnapisjtim because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2015 @ 06:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Utnapisjtim
No one wants to talk about this "tinderbox" that exists as the elephant in the room.




top topics



 
32
<< 20  21  22    24  25  26 >>

log in

join