It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Here’s What The World Thinks About The American Response To The Oregon Massacre

page: 1
53
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:30 AM
link   

Mass shootings are a distinctly American problem.

Between 2000 and 2014, there were 33 mass shootings in Argentina, Australia, Canada, China, England, Germany, Finland, Israel, Mexico, Norway, Russia, South Africa and Switzerland combined.

Over the same time period, there were 133 mass shootings in the United States, killing 487 people.

Countries like Australia have dealt with large mass shootings, tightened up their gun laws in response and virtually eliminated the problem.

The American response has been to do nothing.

Watching international news coverage of the Oregon gun massacre, it quickly becomes clear that the rest of the world is repulsed and confused by America’s inaction.

On a roundtable on BBC News, Polly Toynbee of The Guardian said, “It’s one of the reasons why a lot of people in the outside world always regard America as being certifiably insane.” The rest of the panel of journalists from around the world largely agreed.



On Global National, a Canadian news program, correspondent Paul Johnson, reporting from Oregon, introduced his segment this way: “Canadians and many around the world look at the U.S. and how these shootings keep happening over and over again and wonder why their aren’t better laws here about who can get guns.” In his report, a clearly perplexed Johnson finds that local residents actually want easier access to guns.



Sky News, another British channel, was even harsher. “Part of America is a third world country, isn’t it really. The middle bit of America. People don’t even know where the rest of the world is. I think America actually needs to brighten itself up a bit,” said broadcast James Whale. The rest of the panel was not much more generous.



In the past, America has responded to mass shootings not by strengthening gun laws, but by weakening them. After 26 people, including 20 children, were murdered by a gunman at Sandy Hook Elementary, Congress passed an NRA-approved law weakening gun regulations in a variety of ways — including shielding gun dealers who “lose” guns from scrutiny.

From: thinkprogress.org...

Albert Einstein is quoted as once saying "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result". This is an excellent example of how much of the world is viewing America at this point in time. To us it seems that America is determined to completely ignore the elephant in the room as long as they get to keep their guns without the restrictions that the rest of the world sees as absolutely necessary to keep powerful guns away from the types of people who would perpetrate atrocities like the recent Oregon shooting, along with all the others.

Americans argue that people get killed by all sorts of weapons, from cars to fires to knives to practically anything they can grasp onto that they believe will help make their point for them. None of them, however, like to acknowledge the fact that these other forms of death are from things that are NOT specifically designed to kill, and in large numbers. A nutter with a knife, for example, would have a hard time knifing 80 people in a cinema, or knifing dozens of students in a building without being quickly overpowered and arrested. On the other hand, all the shooters had to do was stand in one spot and pull a trigger with one finger and spray a hail of death at whoever they swiveled the gun at.

Yes, people will always find ways to get a gun. But in other countries around the world we quickly figured out that we could reduce the amount of people getting guns by restricting them. And it worked. For all the bleeting that comes from gun advocates in America they completely ignore the factual evidence that PROVES gun restrictions work. These same advocates are also usually the ones screaming about how gun restrictions = no guns whatsoever, which couldn't be further than the truth if they tried. This is not only false, but a clear attempt at deflection from the actual problem and the proven ways through which it can be solved.

America. I'm going to lay it out nice and simple for you. Most of the rest of the world thinks you are insane. Completely bonkers, a few fries short of a Happy Meal. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING. You are NOT being "individual", you are further endangering the lives of your fellow citizens by your inaction on this issue. This is a sickness, one that has become all pervasive throughout your society and rears it's ugly head every time another mass shooting happens in America. The rest of us are no longer surprised when we hear about another shooting there, we just shake our heads in astonishment and wonder how what used to be such a great nation, a shining star of democracy and all that is good, could have fallen so far and so fast.

I fully expect a few comments calling me "Anti-American" or one of the usual slogans thrown around by ignorant people who don't like hearing the truth. I could care less. The time has come for the American people to wake the # up to themselves and realise that radical change is what is needed in order to prevent such occurrences from happening on such a frequent basis.




posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:37 AM
link   
We have thousands of gun laws on the books... Many of the things proposed are already on the books..

The problem isn't the guns..

And James whale is an idiot...

Finally every country mentioned on those panels have their own issues they should be worried about..



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:41 AM
link   
There was a thread yesterday stating how over-loading the market with guns would eliminate the problem. Essentially more guns = less gun deaths.

I am not commenting on the subject as such, as I have tried so many times to debate the American gun situation with friends and it just goes round and round in circles. Also, I am not an American, and I don't preach where I don't live.

I mentioned the other thread because I am interested to see the reaction this thread gets compared to that one.





posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:47 AM
link   

originally posted by: Irishhaf
We have thousands of gun laws on the books... Many of the things proposed are already on the books..


"On the books" does not mean "in effect". Thinking about new laws is not the same as implementing them. They have not been implemented because of the resistance from the all-powerful NRA crowd and their supporters.


The problem isn't the guns..


Would you care to elaborate on why you don't believe the guns are the problem? Can you please explain why you totally ignore the proven evidence that restrictions on guns in other countries has undeniably worked?


And James whale is an idiot...


Care to elaborate as to why? Your disagreement with him does not make him "an idiot".


Finally every country mentioned on those panels have their own issues they should be worried about..


Already covered in the OP. Is there anything NEW you would like to add, or are you just determined to repeat the same disproven talking points over and over again somehow expecting a different result?



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:50 AM
link   

originally posted by: brace22

There was a thread yesterday stating how over-loading the market with guns would eliminate the problem. Essentially more guns = less gun deaths.


I personally would like to see those Americans making that claim come up with some form of provable evidence that more guns would equal less deaths. As there is no such proof the whole topic should be shelved and labelled "Never to be revisited".



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:53 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

Just started cooking I'll get back to you shortly



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:54 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

There is no #ing debate, our 2nd amendment guarentess us the right, period end of story. Guns are not going away, do you even realize that there would be a revolution and war in the street if a grab was made by the government towards guns. You do get that right?

I know other country's don't take many things seriously, and are swayed by the whimsical desires of the politically correct.The U.S while suffering some of the same plight, also firmly respects it's amendments and what the forefathers thought about our rights and how to guarantee those rights.

Love us, hate us, call us idiots, throw statistics in our face. It doesn't matter, get that through your heads, evidently we both are stubborn because neither are changing their position.

Having said all that, I understand there's a problem with mass shootings gun violence in general, it must be addressed. Banning guns is not going to be our way of addressing it as previously stated, so we are going to have to address the social and psychological conditions that foster this environment and for us that will be the path of progress. Thank you for your concern outside world, just remember that platform from which you crapfling you wouldn't have if it wasn't for the U.S.
edit on 6-10-2015 by TechniXcality because: Spelling



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:56 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

Here is that thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


The gun issue, in any country for that matter, can never be shelved IMO. I imagine it is hard for American gun owners who would never kill anybody, but just enjoy their hobby of guns, to see all this debate, rage and hatred towards it.

It's that old tale of why should someone else get blamed for someone's wrong doings. Sadly this time, it's on a very large scale.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:59 AM
link   
nothing will ever be done to enforce the gun laws that actually exist.
guns are really nothing more than the last "illusion of freedom" that exists in america.
As long as people have guns they will think they are in control, that they have some form of power.
that distracts them from all the freedoms they are losing on an almost daily basis.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:59 AM
link   
Also, can I just say, I know I have said I would never preach to America and this isn't me preaching at all!

But, would a plausible and happy ending situation be:

Keep your guns, but make it more rigorous to obtain then.

I.E stricter medical examining, mental health examining and so forth?




I guess I could back that up by saying if you are a good citizen, and you wouldn't need to worry about passing them, you wouldn't mind doing the harder checks and tests.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 04:59 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

Well..

British TV is hardly "the world"

The impression I have got is that the world at large .. really do not care. Ii notices these things, shrugs, and that is about it.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:00 AM
link   
Don't touch my guns !!!!!!!!!!!!... oh wait, I'm european... nevermind...



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:02 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

Question:

Does your socialist medical care literally shove prescription drugs down your throat? With quite a few having side effects of suicide and rage?

Our capitalist medical care does.......

I'd say THAT is a bigger problem here in the US.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:02 AM
link   
a reply to: DupontDeux

To be fair, there was a Canadian TV video in there! lol



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:02 AM
link   
Since when has America given a damn what the rest of the world thinks about them. Fair enough. America has a constitution with a 2nd amendment which most countries don't. If school massacres are the price to pay for this freedom then that's just the way it will be. It's not the place of other countries to scorn America. Just don't be surprised when there are these massacres. It's just the way things are there, but let's not have the excuses of mental health medication or no gun zones as an excuse. America is no more violent than any other civilised country, just a different attitude to gun ownership and if school massacres are not such big deal. Then let's not make a big deal out of them when they happen. Just accept them as part of the American way of life.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:06 AM
link   

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Kryties

There is no #ing debate, our 2nd amendment guarentess us the right, period end of story.


Amendments can be repealed or altered when they no longer become relevant. Try not to forget that.


Guns are not going away, do you even realize that there would be a revolution and war in the street if a grab was made by the government towards guns. You do get that right?


Thankyou for providing the perfect example of something I mentioned in the OP - being that some Americans like to deflect the debate away from the actual topic of gun RESTRICTIONS by falsely claiming that it would apply to all guns and that we are advocating a "no guns whatsoever" policy. This could not be further from the truth if you tried.


I know other country's don't take many things seriously, and are swayed by the whimsical desires of the politically correct.The U.S while suffering some of the same plight, also firmly respects is amendments and what the forefathers thought about our rights and how to guarantee those rights.


What a load of complete nonsense. Are you trying to claim "other countries" don't take mass murders and deaths by gun seriously? Why are you completely ignoring the fact that we took it more seriously than you and implemented laws which GREATLY REDUCED the incidents and likelihood of mass shootings?


Love us, hate us, call us idiots, throw statistics in our face. It doesn't matter, get that through your heads, evidently we both are stubborn because neither are changing their position.


Apparently no amount of factual evidence is enough to convince some people. Facts mean nothing to these types - and so the perpetual cycle of insanity shall continue unabated.


Having said all that, I understand there's a problem with mass shootings gun violence in general, it must be addressed. Banning guns is not going to be our way of addressing it as previously stated, so we are going to have to address the social and psychological conditions that foster this environment and for us that will be the path of progress. Thank you for your concern outside world, just remember that platform from which you crapfling you wouldn't have if it wasn't for the U.S.


Please stop with the fallacy that gun restrictions = no guns whatsoever. It has been stated many many times that this is completely false and only serves as a deflection from the actual topic of RESTRICTING access to certain types of powerful firearms and keeping firearms away from nutjobs.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:09 AM
link   
a reply to: woodwardjnr

I can agree to gun restrictions.

The problem is that criminals don't and can get guns.

Now if the police actually did something other than extort the citizenry we'd maybe get somewhere.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:10 AM
link   

originally posted by: brace22
a reply to: Kryties

Here is that thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


The gun issue, in any country for that matter, can never be shelved IMO. I imagine it is hard for American gun owners who would never kill anybody, but just enjoy their hobby of guns, to see all this debate, rage and hatred towards it.

It's that old tale of why should someone else get blamed for someone's wrong doings. Sadly this time, it's on a very large scale.


Nobody wants to take the hunting weapons away from law abiding citizens - that is an outright lie and only bleeted about by NRA-types who want to deflect attention away from the actual issue.

We still have our guns in Australia. We just don't have access to powerful assault rifles and we background check EVERYONE to make sure, to the best of our ability, that nutters don't get their hands on them.

Take the recent Parramatta terrorist shooting here, for instance. Luckily for everyone the nutjob was only able to get his hands on a single fire gun, and not an assault rifle. Our laws did exactly what they were intended to do, despite the bleeting otherwise.



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:10 AM
link   
a reply to: Kryties

The right for US citizens to bear arms under the 2nd amendment is not in dispute here but I would like to have a reasonable discussion on who gets to own guns in the US so as to best avoid nutters taking out innocents.

In my opinion, it stems from a fundamental mind-set as to what it means to be an American citizen in relation to their inalienable rights under the constitution, bill of rights and declaration of independence.. My American friends I stay with when over there like their guns, they have grown up with them and look at me as a weirdo when I tell them I have never owned one, only shot one a few times at a firing range and that I have no desire to own one.

That is the difference in my opinion - that and the 2nd amendment. Now, those same yank friends are very particular about gun etiquette - very particular, and that goes hand-in-hand with their mind-set about rights to own guns.

I have no problem with that, after all, I could go out tomorrow and fill-in the necessary paperwork and I too would own a gun (or 2) soon thereafter - after a background check.

So, when it comes to US citizens, their mindset is completely different because they desire gun ownership, lots of other people do not.

What needs to happen in the US, again in my opinion, is a control mechanism to RESTRICT that ownership, because with every mass shooting in the US eventually comes the fact that other contributing factors were at play - like the shooter being drugged-up or socially ostracized or radicalized - now, those issues would not stop a mental case from harming someone, if they didn't have a gun, it would be a "how to make a bomb" or something else.

This is where background checks and if necessary psyche evaluations occur (and not evaluations by those with ulterior motives, but professional 3rd party shrinks who will be objective).

After Port Arthur the nation was shocked and the buy-back scheme was very well received and successful - that was an Australian MIND-SET thing, and when the Monash Uni shooting occurred, the government further reinforced and restricted gun ownership with neary a bleep from Joe Public - because of our mindset.

Anyway, Americans do indeed need to reflect on these incidents and until they collectively WANT to change, it is a sad fact that these shooting will continue - perpetrated mainly by a very very select demographic of their society - namely 16-26 year old white males with a history or either mental instability (with or without the assistance of psychotropic pharmaceuticals) or social ostracization or both.

These are my observations as a non-US citizen who regularly travels there and has many friends who are US citizens and gun owners.
edit on 6-10-2015 by Sublimecraft because: clarification



posted on Oct, 6 2015 @ 05:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: DupontDeux
a reply to: Kryties

Well..

British TV is hardly "the world"

The impression I have got is that the world at large .. really do not care. Ii notices these things, shrugs, and that is about it.


There is a Canadian station there, as well as Sky News which is international.

And clearly you haven't talked to many people outside America or you would realise that most of us do care. We are human beings, we care that people are dying in mass shootings that can be prevented - if we didn't then nobody would be talking about it.




top topics



 
53
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join